I'm somewhat curious after reading one of the other threads. Would you say Biology (gender related differences.) plays a role in the way people think?
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:05:42 PM
I'm somewhat curious after reading one of the other threads. Would you say Biology (gender related differences.) plays a role in the way people think?
Of course. How could it not? We already know (and boy, have we demonstrated) that cortisol increases butthurt. And we know that testosterone influences behavior. And that girls are
icky.
So yes.
I am 110% more of an assbag when I have cooties all over me. And you only get cooties from Girls.
QED
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:09:49 PM
I am 110% more of an assbag when I have cooties all over me. And you only get cooties from Girls.
QED
This is fact. And I am guessing that Pixie is as much a cootie generator as Jenn is.
Nigel's cooties weigh 10 pounds apiece and sodomize your dog.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:11:04 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:09:49 PM
I am 110% more of an assbag when I have cooties all over me. And you only get cooties from Girls.
QED
This is fact. And I am guessing that Pixie is as much a cootie generator as Jenn is.
Nigel's cooties weigh 10 pounds apiece and sodomize your dog.
Pixies cooties bark at you when you aren't
quite looking at them.
When you look directly at them, they aren't there.
When you don't look at them at all, they are writing theses that disprove their existence.
It's very trying.
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
It was kind of an obvious question.
And look what cooties DO to people:
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/ac955188d40c2cec67d351a027e9e733/tumblr_msj7pzXy8O1r03eaxo1_400.gif)
JOKES?
Just wait till Pixie or Nigel read this.
You = FUCKEDFOREVER.
I'm just fiddling before, during and after Rome burns.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:21:29 PM
JOKES?
Just wait till Pixie or Nigel read this.
You = FUCKEDFOREVER.
I'm just fiddling before, during and after Rome burns.
He's right. They're gonna have your nuts on the hibachi.
They are not on your side.
Actually hardly a day goes by when I don't fiddle just a little bit.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:22:09 PM
Actually hardly a day goes by when I don't fiddle just a little bit.
I'm fiddling
right now.
Don't look.
Can't look. Too busy fiddling.
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:05:42 PM
I'm somewhat curious after reading one of the other threads. Would you say Biology (gender related differences.) plays a role in the way people think?
Yes. Probably not as much as most people think, though.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:11:04 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:09:49 PM
I am 110% more of an assbag when I have cooties all over me. And you only get cooties from Girls.
QED
This is fact. And I am guessing that Pixie is as much a cootie generator as Jenn is.
Nigel's cooties weigh 10 pounds apiece and sodomize your dog.
The dog was asking for it.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 25, 2013, 10:36:45 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:05:42 PM
I'm somewhat curious after reading one of the other threads. Would you say Biology (gender related differences.) plays a role in the way people think?
Yes. Probably not as much as most people think, though.
Shush you. That's your X chromosome talking.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:37:34 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 25, 2013, 10:36:45 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:05:42 PM
I'm somewhat curious after reading one of the other threads. Would you say Biology (gender related differences.) plays a role in the way people think?
Yes. Probably not as much as most people think, though.
Shush you. That's your X chromosome talking.
And then Payne was beaten to death by giant cooties. With Nigel's dick up his ass. :horrormirth:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Payne's back. We have only HIS mood, now.
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Can I make a Prediction
TM about you?
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:37:34 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 25, 2013, 10:36:45 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:05:42 PM
I'm somewhat curious after reading one of the other threads. Would you say Biology (gender related differences.) plays a role in the way people think?
Yes. Probably not as much as most people think, though.
Shush you. That's your X chromosome talking.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Can I make a PredictionTM about you?
Sure
I think the differences would be negligible, personally.
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Can I make a PredictionTM about you?
Sure
Due to an anomaly in an incredibly obscure and unobvious decision you make, you are destined to compound a small mistake with huge ramifications. You will not notice the ramifications at all to begin with, but they will snowball year after month after week after day after hour after minute after second. You will think it normal or, at worst, coincidence. But as the time ticks by after the one split moment in time when one neuron broke the through space to the next and kick started a chain reaction of "thought" or whatever process you deem appropriate to the functioning of the grey matter within the confines of your skull you will find yourself pursued but never caught.
Run down but never touched.
Entrapped but never caged.
And on that final moment, when it all does
finally come crashing down around you, you will find a name for this oppressive and pernicious syndrome.
...
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 25, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
I think the differences would be negligible, personally.
When you calculate all the reasonably calculable variables, and include reasonable margins of error, then yes.
Bears are batshit. Hence I only date kittens or cats. You primates think you're so cool fucking swinging from tree to tree.
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:16:31 PM
Bears are batshit. Hence I only date kittens or cats. You primates think you're so cool fucking swinging from tree to tree.
How outlandish.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:16:31 PM
Bears are batshit. Hence I only date kittens or cats. You primates think you're so cool fucking swinging from tree to tree.
How outlandish.
Bear isn't outlandish. He's just handicapped on account of he's from Houston. Which is in Texas, which is a small and reviled nation between the United States and Mexico, famous for big hats with nothing underneath them, Rick Perry, and the worst baseball team in North America.
When the plague came we laughed and laughed at the 95% that died. Then the Europeans came and they realized bears are godless killing machines.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 11:20:32 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:16:31 PM
Bears are batshit. Hence I only date kittens or cats. You primates think you're so cool fucking swinging from tree to tree.
How outlandish.
Bear isn't outlandish. He's just handicapped on account of he's from Houston. Which is in Texas, which is a small and reviled nation between the United States and Mexico, famous for big hats with nothing underneath them, Rick Perry, and the worst baseball team in North America.
Tex... Ass....
I do not know this gobbledygook you are saying to me.
You know I don't like to think about places that don't accept My Word.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:24:20 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 11:20:32 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:16:31 PM
Bears are batshit. Hence I only date kittens or cats. You primates think you're so cool fucking swinging from tree to tree.
How outlandish.
Bear isn't outlandish. He's just handicapped on account of he's from Houston. Which is in Texas, which is a small and reviled nation between the United States and Mexico, famous for big hats with nothing underneath them, Rick Perry, and the worst baseball team in North America.
Tex... Ass....
I do not know this gobbledygook you are saying to me.
You know I don't like to think about places that don't accept My Word.
It's not that they don't ACCEPT it, it's that they don't UNDERSTAND it.
I can't help it if they don't English good!
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!
We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.
I'm down with blood sacrifices.
I'm down with many things.
Are you willing to test the poor for 100% purity?
Fact: Women in Texas actually own the men here. Too bad they use them to trample other women.
I've heard the branding hurts like hell.
I also heard that stigmata fade after a while though, so I don't hold much faith in that.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:42:18 PM
I've heard the branding hurts like hell.
I also heard that stigmata fade after a while though, so I don't hold much faith in that.
Bud Light Lime is the holy water here.
I am disturbed by how well your two avatars go together.
Kofi Annan rocking his beats goes with anything
Just protecting freedom here ma'am from Obama's secret army.
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:03:10 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Can I make a PredictionTM about you?
Sure
Due to an anomaly in an incredibly obscure and unobvious decision you make, you are destined to compound a small mistake with huge ramifications. You will not notice the ramifications at all to begin with, but they will snowball year after month after week after day after hour after minute after second. You will think it normal or, at worst, coincidence. But as the time ticks by after the one split moment in time when one neuron broke the through space to the next and kick started a chain reaction of "thought" or whatever process you deem appropriate to the functioning of the grey matter within the confines of your skull you will find yourself pursued but never caught.
Run down but never touched.
Entrapped but never caged.
And on that final moment, when it all does finally come crashing down around you, you will find a name for this oppressive and pernicious syndrome.
...
For a prophet, you're pretty goddamn evil.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 26, 2013, 02:33:44 AM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:03:10 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 25, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 25, 2013, 10:19:29 PM
Ummmmmk. I was expecting to get my ass chewed by a couple people and one or two calling me stupid for asking.
So jokes are good I guess.
Also, I'd hope we aren't THAT predictable.
Depends on the mood of the forum I think.
Can I make a PredictionTM about you?
Sure
Due to an anomaly in an incredibly obscure and unobvious decision you make, you are destined to compound a small mistake with huge ramifications. You will not notice the ramifications at all to begin with, but they will snowball year after month after week after day after hour after minute after second. You will think it normal or, at worst, coincidence. But as the time ticks by after the one split moment in time when one neuron broke the through space to the next and kick started a chain reaction of "thought" or whatever process you deem appropriate to the functioning of the grey matter within the confines of your skull you will find yourself pursued but never caught.
Run down but never touched.
Entrapped but never caged.
And on that final moment, when it all does finally come crashing down around you, you will find a name for this oppressive and pernicious syndrome.
...
For a prophet, you're pretty goddamn evil.
:notnice:
Well played, Nigel.
:thanks:
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory thing at all.
Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.
As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!
We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.
Pecan. It's a pecan.
Behold it, bedecked with red ribbon and ready for your sacrifices:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Pdt9FLMTw3k/Sze7PgXHtUI/AAAAAAAAArg/W-9MP0gFPjs/s400/DSC02152.JPG)
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on October 26, 2013, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!
We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.
Pecan. It's a pecan.
Behold it, bedecked with red ribbon and ready for your sacrifices:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Pdt9FLMTw3k/Sze7PgXHtUI/AAAAAAAAArg/W-9MP0gFPjs/s400/DSC02152.JPG)
PECANS FOR THE PECAN GOD!
Quote from: Pixie on October 26, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory thing at all.
Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.
As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.
Androgen imbalance; EFO, who identifies as agender, also has an androgen imbalance. In her case she decided to treat it, partly because she also has very heavy periods and the treatment helps with that.
FTR the treatment has also helped with her depression.
Also FTR, I have a hypothesis that one or more of our environmental pollutants is an androgen disruptor and that we will see more and more such disorders along with a decrease in male fertility.
interesting.
IDK how many (or if any, the trans* community get very leery of medicalising gender identity stuff) studies have been done on pre-hormones or genderqueer trans* folks and their hormone levels.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 26, 2013, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Pixie on October 26, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory thing at all.
Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.
As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.
Androgen imbalance; EFO, who identifies as agender, also has an androgen imbalance. In her case she decided to treat it, partly because she also has very heavy periods and the treatment helps with that.
FTR the treatment has also helped with her depression.
Also FTR, I have a hypothesis that one or more of our environmental pollutants is an androgen disruptor and that we will see more and more such disorders along with a decrease in male fertility.
There's a lot of people very worried about environmental estrogens and other endocrine disruptors (http://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/) are causing both boys and girls hit puberty 1-3 years on earlier on average compared to historical records. There's also correlations with obesity and growing up under stress.
University of Michigan (http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/puberty.htm) has a general outline with lots of citations for further reading.
I couldn't find it, but there was a good study where they put irritants that mimicked a fungal infection in beetles and observed their immune and sex response. At simulated minor infections, the beetles conserved sexually energy and boosted their immune systems, but after a point they went into kamikaze sex maniacs. I think the other research in the area focuses more on predation stress on prey animals reproductive strategy, but there's broad evidence that an evolutionarily favored response to high stress is panic reproduction mode.
I'd lay very good odds that high stress environments fuck with both your androgen & estrogen levels.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on October 26, 2013, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!
We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.
Pecan. It's a pecan.
Behold it, bedecked with red ribbon and ready for your sacrifices:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Pdt9FLMTw3k/Sze7PgXHtUI/AAAAAAAAArg/W-9MP0gFPjs/s400/DSC02152.JPG)
MORE MORE FOR THE HARVEST!
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?
I understand that women are better at raising children is false.
The only thing I can think by default is woman are superior at being pilots and possibly astronauts due to body fat, bone structure, and muscle ratio under g forces.
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?
Brain stuff or physical? There's some significant differences in circulation.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 26, 2013, 10:41:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?
.
Brain stuff or physical? There's some significant differences in circulation.
Brain stuff. Since I know nothing
There are a lot of developmental differences but "hard-wired" is hard to define in some ways, because your experiences play a role in physical brain development, as do your hormones, which are mutable.
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 26, 2013, 10:41:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?
.
Brain stuff or physical? There's some significant differences in circulation.
Brain stuff. Since I know nothing
Males are more likely to have autism or schizophrenia (and females more likely to have depression and anxiety issues, but those are less clearly "hard-wired.")
Androgen, estrogen, and a levels of other hormones vary a lot between genders, and hormones have significant effects on the brain.
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:31:15 PM
The only thing I can think by default is woman are superior at being pilots and possibly astronauts due to body fat, bone structure, and muscle ratio under g forces.
They also float better!
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 26, 2013, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Pixie on October 26, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory thing at all.
Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.
As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.
Androgen imbalance; EFO, who identifies as agender, also has an androgen imbalance. In her case she decided to treat it, partly because she also has very heavy periods and the treatment helps with that.
FTR the treatment has also helped with her depression.
Also FTR, I have a hypothesis that one or more of our environmental pollutants is an androgen disruptor and that we will see more and more such disorders along with a decrease in male fertility.
That reminded me of all those warnings in the 90's to throw out old plastic containers used for food and drinks, lest they give your sons hormone problems. Turns out those were endocrine disruptors, though. http://e.hormone.tulane.edu/learning/wildlife-effects.html
Either way, it doesn't look good for the future.
Thanks for the info.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on October 27, 2013, 01:01:28 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 26, 2013, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Pixie on October 26, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory thing at all.
Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.
As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.
Androgen imbalance; EFO, who identifies as agender, also has an androgen imbalance. In her case she decided to treat it, partly because she also has very heavy periods and the treatment helps with that.
FTR the treatment has also helped with her depression.
Also FTR, I have a hypothesis that one or more of our environmental pollutants is an androgen disruptor and that we will see more and more such disorders along with a decrease in male fertility.
That reminded me of all those warnings in the 90's to throw out old plastic containers used for food and drinks, lest they give your sons hormone problems. Turns out those were endocrine disruptors, though. http://e.hormone.tulane.edu/learning/wildlife-effects.html
Either way, it doesn't look good for the future.
Yeah, the awesome part is how all the chemicals that are endocrine disruptors were also part of their manufacturing process and also are byproducts of the manufacturing or decomposition process of a lot of other things, and now they are persistent parts of our environment that aren't going to break down anytime soon. Go industry!
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
I think "boys are this and girls are this" is a construct. Boys and girls may tend towards certain traits in general, but the differences between individuals are much larger than between genders. I have yet to meet a kid that's "100%" feminine or masculine, most of them fall generally on one side when it comes to a lot of stuff, but will be neutral or over on the other side in a couple other things. Boys who like trucks, yelling, soccer and wearing necklaces; girls who like pretty dresses, brushing their hair, cute animals and power tools.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 28, 2013, 04:28:42 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
I think "boys are this and girls are this" is a construct. Boys and girls may tend towards certain traits in general, but the differences between individuals are much larger than between genders. I have yet to meet a kid that's "100%" feminine or masculine, most of them fall generally on one side when it comes to a lot of stuff, but will be neutral or over on the other side in a couple other things. Boys who like trucks, yelling, soccer and wearing necklaces; girls who like pretty dresses, brushing their hair, cute animals and power tools.
Depends what you consider to be our default state, I suppose. I am trying and failing to think of a culture that hasn't got clearly defined gender roles, though some of them are far stricter than others. Also, those gender roles are more or less identical from one culture to another (though correlation does not imply causation, of course).
I think the gender roles are based on primate behavior...Which is the best reason I can think of for weakening them. It may have worked for primitive humans, but we (supposedly) aren't primitive anymore.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
Of course it's a social construct, as is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures have different gender roles. Sex is real, gender is an invention. In one society women own the property and work the farmland, in another women hunt and men stay home with the children. In one women make themselves pretty with paint and colored fabric and shiny decorations, in another men do.
Gender is an invention, and we have designed it to be binary in response to the idea of binary sexes, but there's no particular reason for it to be binary, and also no particular reason for it to be linked to sex.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:32:26 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 28, 2013, 04:28:42 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
I think "boys are this and girls are this" is a construct. Boys and girls may tend towards certain traits in general, but the differences between individuals are much larger than between genders. I have yet to meet a kid that's "100%" feminine or masculine, most of them fall generally on one side when it comes to a lot of stuff, but will be neutral or over on the other side in a couple other things. Boys who like trucks, yelling, soccer and wearing necklaces; girls who like pretty dresses, brushing their hair, cute animals and power tools.
Depends what you consider to be our default state, I suppose. I am trying and failing to think of a culture that hasn't got clearly defined gender roles, though some of them are far stricter than others. Also, those gender roles are more or less identical from one culture to another (though correlation does not imply causation, of course).
I think the gender roles are based on primate behavior...Which is the best reason I can think of for weakening them. It may have worked for primitive humans, but we (supposedly) aren't primitive anymore.
Which primates?
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:32:26 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 28, 2013, 04:28:42 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
I think "boys are this and girls are this" is a construct. Boys and girls may tend towards certain traits in general, but the differences between individuals are much larger than between genders. I have yet to meet a kid that's "100%" feminine or masculine, most of them fall generally on one side when it comes to a lot of stuff, but will be neutral or over on the other side in a couple other things. Boys who like trucks, yelling, soccer and wearing necklaces; girls who like pretty dresses, brushing their hair, cute animals and power tools.
Depends what you consider to be our default state, I suppose. I am trying and failing to think of a culture that hasn't got clearly defined gender roles, though some of them are far stricter than others. Also, those gender roles are more or less identical from one culture to another (though correlation does not imply causation, of course).
I think the gender roles are based on primate behavior...Which is the best reason I can think of for weakening them. It may have worked for primitive humans, but we (supposedly) aren't primitive anymore.
Which primates?
The ones that spent 2,000,000 years killing things with blunt objects. :lulz:
As I said, correlation does not equal causation. I have NO idea if gender roles were "natural" for early humans and early to middle civilization. Hence the "I think".
I will of course welcome the input of people that know what they're talking about (ie, not me).
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 04:52:12 PM
Of course it's a social construct, as is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures have different gender roles. Sex is real, gender is an invention. In one society women own the property and work the farmland, in another women hunt and men stay home with the children. In one women make themselves pretty with paint and colored fabric and shiny decorations, in another men do.
Gender is an invention, and we have designed it to be binary in response to the idea of binary sexes, but there's no particular reason for it to be binary, and also no particular reason for it to be linked to sex.
The bolded part is about halfway into my skull. I realize it when it is pointed out, but I don't yet think of it that way without being prompted.
Cancel everything I said in this thread. :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 05:02:41 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 04:52:12 PM
Of course it's a social construct, as is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures have different gender roles. Sex is real, gender is an invention. In one society women own the property and work the farmland, in another women hunt and men stay home with the children. In one women make themselves pretty with paint and colored fabric and shiny decorations, in another men do.
Gender is an invention, and we have designed it to be binary in response to the idea of binary sexes, but there's no particular reason for it to be binary, and also no particular reason for it to be linked to sex.
The bolded part is about halfway into my skull. I realize it when it is pointed out, but I don't yet think of it that way without being prompted.
Cancel everything I said in this thread. :lulz:
It is really not an easy concept, to be fair, especially when we've been raised our entire lives to assume gender is real and immutable.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 05:06:29 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 05:02:41 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 04:52:12 PM
Of course it's a social construct, as is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures have different gender roles. Sex is real, gender is an invention. In one society women own the property and work the farmland, in another women hunt and men stay home with the children. In one women make themselves pretty with paint and colored fabric and shiny decorations, in another men do.
Gender is an invention, and we have designed it to be binary in response to the idea of binary sexes, but there's no particular reason for it to be binary, and also no particular reason for it to be linked to sex.
The bolded part is about halfway into my skull. I realize it when it is pointed out, but I don't yet think of it that way without being prompted.
Cancel everything I said in this thread. :lulz:
It is really not an easy concept, to be fair, especially when we've been raised our entire lives to assume gender is real and immutable.
Well, yes, but while I am not stupid, I am a little dense, and I have to learn things a whole bunch of times.
I understand this can be frustrating for those around me.
I get it; I'm a slow processer myself. I'm smart, I'm just not quick. :lol:
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
I wonder if bumpy was flat, would we still call it bumpy?
I wonder if we stopped whacking moles with hammers, would they still live underground?
I wonder if we stopped paying SSI, would the teabaggers still bitch about the gubmint?
I wonder if we posted troll topics, would people take us as seriously as we'd like?
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 09:10:05 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
I wonder if bumpy was flat, would we still call it bumpy?
I wonder if we stopped whacking moles with hammers, would they still live underground?
I wonder if we stopped paying SSI, would the teabaggers still bitch about the gubmint?
I wonder if we posted troll topics, would people take us as seriously as we'd like?
Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?
Yes. They don't like getting eaten by my dog either.
Yes, they have to have something to fear and/or hate.
Depends on how serious of a troll it is. :lulz:
I remember watching a documentary on Animal Planet about some people who worked in a reservation. They were raising endangered animals that had lost their families and the idea was that they would later be released in the wild.
They details varied with the species, but most of the time they didn't have to "teach" the animals how to act natural. Mostly they tried to interfere as little as possible and stay out of the way so the animals would grow independent and with a healthy mistrust of humans.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
I can agree with the bit where you say they're too rigid. I like to think the female gender role has widened considerably (at least in terms of what is deemed "acceptable" for women to do, even if there's still a large gulf in opportunity) but the male gender role hasn't much changed from what is was in the 50's, and i think a lot of the backlash against feminism is old white politicians liking their own chains too much; the idea that they don't have to strive to be Don Draper or the dad from Leave it to Beaver frightens them, so they cling to the status quo like a drowning man to a piece of boat wreckage. Before you know it we have medical professionals ultrasounding abortion patients for no reason and we're supposed to pretend that makes sense.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 04:52:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 28, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 28, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Gender is thought to be a socially constructed concept these days, and attempts to raise a "gender-neutral" child haven't panned out. Boys generally get the message that they're supposed to use every toy like a gun and girls generally learn to play house. Short of tossing young boys and girls into remote pieces of wilderness, Hatchet-style, to see how they develop without the influence of society, i don't think we can properly control for social expectations. Heck, even if we could, the fact that it's so hard to do may be evidence that we like knowing what our social expectations are, even if we don't necessarily follow them.
Balls. I don't think it's a social construct. I do think it is too rigid, though. No provisions are made for children (or, hell, adults) that do not fit precisely into one role or another.
Of course it's a social construct, as is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures have different gender roles. Sex is real, gender is an invention. In one society women own the property and work the farmland, in another women hunt and men stay home with the children. In one women make themselves pretty with paint and colored fabric and shiny decorations, in another men do.
Gender is an invention, and we have designed it to be binary in response to the idea of binary sexes, but there's no particular reason for it to be binary, and also no particular reason for it to be linked to sex.
Fun fact: there's an international study that looked at intergender conditions across many countries, and what they found was that our idea of binary sex doesn't actually exist in nature. They found a lot of people (an average of 2% out of a worldwide sample) were born with conditions that make them not quite male and not quite female. The really interesting part is that even this 2% might be lowballing it, as the symptoms for these conditions look like symptoms you could easily mistake for some other more common condition(XXX syndrome and XXYY males can look like autism or learning impairments), not to mention the bias towards doctors not acknowledging or revealing such information, or even correcting genitalia at birth in many cases.
Most of us don't get our karotypes (like if you are xx or xy or xxy or xyy or bleh) (?) tested anyway and there are known cases of youngsters female assigned at birth (i'll shorten both to MAAB or FAAB) who have had perfectly functional external female genetalia but the girl in question had testes sucked up in there somewhere. She had natural boobs and no obvious outside markers, but when she failed to reach menarche she had a scan and internally had testes.
oh wait i failed to finish my point.. oops.
I wonder how many people have some kind of invisible intersex condition as we don't test for karotypes as standard.
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It appears that they would.
http://www.lionalert.org/page/RPresearch (http://www.lionalert.org/page/RPresearch)
Quote from: holist on October 29, 2013, 08:36:44 AM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It appears that they would.
http://www.lionalert.org/page/RPresearch (http://www.lionalert.org/page/RPresearch)
Very interesting. I'll have to read some more of this later.
This reminds me of the observations by Robert Sapolsky on Baboons. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387823/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387823/)
Basically, after most of the dominant males had been wiped out, the baboon troop had a major shift (culture?) in how males interacted both with males and with females. Most of the observations circle around stress and agression... but it seems interesting in the context of the OP question as well.
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Would overcrowding them be the same thing, or does that work on a separate mechanism altogether?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_despair
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC285801/
And of course, if you would like to never sleep again, there are the orphanages in Romania.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Would overcrowding them be the same thing, or does that work on a separate mechanism altogether?
Utterly different.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Would overcrowding them be the same thing, or does that work on a separate mechanism altogether?
Utterly different.
Okay. The reason I asked is that a behavioral sink makes it impossible for socialization to function.
I thought there might be a link.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:39:45 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Would overcrowding them be the same thing, or does that work on a separate mechanism altogether?
Utterly different.
Okay. The reason I asked is that a behavioral sink makes it impossible for socialization to function.
I thought there might be a link.
Overcrowding is very relative. Humans can function quite well in crowded environments, as long as the environment is friendly and there is little hierarchichal disparity.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:42:41 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:39:45 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Would overcrowding them be the same thing, or does that work on a separate mechanism altogether?
Utterly different.
Okay. The reason I asked is that a behavioral sink makes it impossible for socialization to function.
I thought there might be a link.
Overcrowding is very relative. Humans can function quite well in crowded environments, as long as the environment is friendly and there is little hierarchichal disparity.
I am thinking of the 6 man cells in private prisons. Nobody has territory or anything resembling the chance to reproduce, so they all become functionally insane. China has recently seen some very odd behavior for the same reasons (though different causes).
And so I was just wondering if the mechanism was the same...But you have, in fact, already answered.
DOUR,
Training his heels out of digging.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:38:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_despair
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC285801/
And of course, if you would like to never sleep again, there are the orphanages in Romania.
Just clicked the Pit of Despair. I was abstractly horrified.
And then I thought of Bradley Manning.
And of Supermax prisons in general.
Now I want to crawl inside a bottle.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:42:41 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:39:45 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: tarod on October 28, 2013, 09:06:45 PM
I wonder if lions would still form prides if they weren't raised by other lions.
It seems like the heart of your question is "is being a social animal a fundamental drive or a learned behavior" and the answer is, it's a fundamental drive. If you deprive social animals of socialization they suffer innumerate deleterious effects, from developmental damage to death.
Would overcrowding them be the same thing, or does that work on a separate mechanism altogether?
Utterly different.
Okay. The reason I asked is that a behavioral sink makes it impossible for socialization to function.
I thought there might be a link.
Overcrowding is very relative. Humans can function quite well in crowded environments, as long as the environment is friendly and there is little hierarchichal disparity.
I am thinking of the 6 man cells in private prisons. Nobody has territory or anything resembling the chance to reproduce, so they all become functionally insane. China has recently seen some very odd behavior for the same reasons (though different causes).
And so I was just wondering if the mechanism was the same...But you have, in fact, already answered.
DOUR,
Training his heels out of digging.
Yes, you can have six people living in one room... a Neolithic family, for example... and it's just fine because it's a nurturing context, nobody is being deprived of basic needs, and there is no hierarchy threat.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 29, 2013, 04:48:33 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 04:38:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_despair
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC285801/
And of course, if you would like to never sleep again, there are the orphanages in Romania.
Just clicked the Pit of Despair. I was abstractly horrified.
And then I thought of Bradley Manning.
And of Supermax prisons in general.
Now I want to crawl inside a bottle.
We are a society that perpetuates evil.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 05:00:22 PM
We are a society that perpetuates evil.
I'd make a snarky comment about how that's a human thing.
But it isn't. I know this because of Norway and Italy and Ecuador and Denmark and many other places that you rarely hear about because they aren't deliberately evil.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 29, 2013, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 29, 2013, 05:00:22 PM
We are a society that perpetuates evil.
I'd make a snarky comment about how that's a human thing.
But it isn't. I know this because of Norway and Italy and Ecuador and Denmark and many other places that you rarely hear about because they aren't deliberately evil.
Yeah.
I know humans aren't inherently awful, because there are all these cultures out there that just quietly go around being decent.