Every so often, we get a person who comes through looking to be a guru. Brother Nihil, for example, was here to tell us WHAT, and to lead us to a glorious new future with no women or smudgy people. Then, when they get laughed at, they get all butthurt and pissy.
It occurs to me to ask WHY someone would want to be a guru in the first place. Have they read no history books? Charley "Anything For a Laugh" Manson and Jim Jones came to good ends, right? Or, on the other side of the coin, how did it turn out for Jesus and Gandhi?
I think that perhaps it is the idea of having some form of power in a world in which the would-be guru is powerless (Internet Pagans), or perhaps it's just a need for young 'tang (Uncle BadTouch). In any case, the life of a guru is a special kind of hell that you have to sign up for. You have to go looking for your audience, you have to rope them in, and then, you know, don't come crying to me when you actually get what you thought you wanted.
And what is it that they wanted? Oh, yeah, to be surrounded by weak-willed jellyfish and/or damage cases looking for a parental figure. WELL DONE, THAT MAN.
Now, I'd like to make it clear that I am NOT talking about people with strong opinions. I am talking about people who actively seek follower zombies. Because most people here have strong opinions, but most people here aren't interested in being the next David Koresh.
I know I have strong opinions, but anyone who follows me will soon learn that I don't have strong continence at the best of times, and I deliberately leave little "love offerings" for anyone who decides that I am the leader.
Or Kill Me walk in my poop.
You raise a good point. What kind of person desires to be surrounded by people who they feel are not equals to themselves?
A lifetime of explaining yourself to people who, by definition, just don't get it is a horrifying and painful life, and should be avoided at all costs.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 18, 2013, 08:37:18 PM
You raise a good point. What kind of person desires to be surrounded by people who they feel are not equals to themselves?
A lifetime of explaining yourself to people who, by definition, just don't get it is a horrifying and painful life, and should be avoided at all costs.
I expect that most of them just can't see past the notion of having lackeys. Or an endless supply of brain-damaged bed partners.
Both of these things, of course, go back to wanting power in a world in which the person in question is powerless. Monkey behavior.
I couldn't agree more. And I'd draw a parallel to the broader cultural phenomenon of people thinking that celebrity is the ultimate goal of life. I suspect that most people, if forced to choose, would rather be famous than wealthy. And that's just insane to me.
Fucking wannabe gurus. I don't fucking get what kind of damage it takes to WANT to have followers. Jesus fuck... if you want adoration, get a dog. Dogs are great. People will KILL YOU, or worse, they'll kill FOR you, or get themselves killed. No fucking thanks.
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
This.
Tangent: At what point does a guru become the pope?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:13:09 PM
Tangent: At what point does a guru become the pope?
When he decides that wearing a funny hat is part of his mojo?
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.
Well, I suppose you could say that about any leadership role, no? At least the Pope has his hat.
Quote from: Hoopla on November 18, 2013, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.
Well, I suppose you could say that about any leadership role, no? At least the Pope has his hat.
Yeah but we're talking about gurus specifically. And Roger (and others) were pointing out that it makes no sense to want to be one. I don't necessarily see it that way. Offering the guy in the white dress as an example of a successful guru.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:31:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on November 18, 2013, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.
Well, I suppose you could say that about any leadership role, no? At least the Pope has his hat.
Yeah but we're talking about gurus specifically. And Roger (and others) were pointing out that it makes no sense to want to be one. I don't necessarily see it that way. Offering the guy in the white dress as an example of a successful guru.
Ok yeah, but he has to drive around in a little bulletproof car. So... there's
that.
Couple of further thoughts:
"Guru" does have a number of religious/spritiual overtones and for those of that ilk, to me there is little difference between them beyond the titles and such they give themselves.
There's the other sort that we may overlook here - The "Lifestyle" Guru. The people who tell you that you'll get a raise if you move the chair. That kind of shit.
There's an industry of these people now working hand in hand with bullshit alternative medicine guys. It's a racket that exists mainly to exploit the rich and vapid, however it remains that - A racket that preys on the susceptible.
Armies of these people go forth daily "consulting" and having very important meetings with very wealthy people where precisely nothing of real value takes place yet significant cash is exchanged. If I was being very cynical, I'd say something about money laundering. There surely must be more than a few gaming the system in this manner.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Both also employ isolation, physically or otherwise, and alienation from any outside attachments.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:33:07 PM
Couple of further thoughts:
"Guru" does have a number of religious/spritiual overtones and for those of that ilk, to me there is little difference between them beyond the titles and such they give themselves.
There's the other sort that we may overlook here - The "Lifestyle" Guru. The people who tell you that you'll get a raise if you move the chair. That kind of shit.
There's an industry of these people now working hand in hand with bullshit alternative medicine guys. It's a racket that exists mainly to exploit the rich and vapid, however it remains that - A racket that preys on the susceptible.
Armies of these people go forth daily "consulting" and having very important meetings with very wealthy people where precisely nothing of real value takes place yet significant cash is exchanged. If I was being very cynical, I'd say something about money laundering. There surely must be more than a few gaming the system in this manner.
Yeah, the only difference is that the lifestyle gurus prey on the rich. Still vultures.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 18, 2013, 11:33:38 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Both also employ isolation, physically or otherwise, and alienation from any outside attachments.
Add in all the shit we know about how people behave in groups and when they put on uniforms and it gets scary. Consider Milgram and Stanford and the findings there. Now why are we surprised when we get a bunch of people behaving in a way that isn't wanted? You've got a solid group identity and alleviation of responsibility.
Shit ensues.
How did I forget to mention Holist?
He's the best wannabe-guru we've ever had.
STUPID ROGER. NO BISCUIT GAME.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:41:26 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 18, 2013, 11:33:38 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Both also employ isolation, physically or otherwise, and alienation from any outside attachments.
Add in all the shit we know about how people behave in groups and when they put on uniforms and it gets scary. Consider Milgram and Stanford and the findings there. Now why are we surprised when we get a bunch of people behaving in a way that isn't wanted? You've got a solid group identity and alleviation of responsibility.
Shit ensues.
Hey, the Nazis didn't get their way by being reasonable, right? Follow the simple formula, get regular people to commit atrocities.
The more I consider this, the more similarities I find between Goebbels and Gillian Mckeith.
The neat thing about the war trials was they took the excuse of "no responsibility" away.
Too bad we reinstated it in 2003/2004.
Or another angle, Goebbels and Sylvia Browne.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:54:32 PM
Or another angle, Goebbels and Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 18, 2013, 11:57:52 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:54:32 PM
Or another angle, Goebbels and Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
The woman who even by blind guessing should be more accurate. It's actually remarkable.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 19, 2013, 12:00:53 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 18, 2013, 11:57:52 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:54:32 PM
Or another angle, Goebbels and Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
The woman who even by blind guessing should be more accurate. It's actually remarkable.
Sort of a reverse Cassandra. She's always wrong, but people keep listening.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 19, 2013, 12:01:42 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 19, 2013, 12:00:53 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 18, 2013, 11:57:52 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:54:32 PM
Or another angle, Goebbels and Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
Sylvia Browne.
:tgrr:
The woman who even by blind guessing should be more accurate. It's actually remarkable.
Sort of a reverse Cassandra. She's always wrong, but people keep listening.
I'm honestly tempted to see if I can bet on the opposite outcome of her most recent prediction happening. The idea of informing her of how much money I've made by betting she's wrong amuses me. Statistically speaking, it's practically a sure thing too.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
Uncle BadTouch.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 19, 2013, 12:06:33 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
Uncle BadTouch.
:lulz: Point.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 19, 2013, 12:14:26 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?
Probably a cultural barrier. In the US, a white cult leader who is involved in drug crime is a guru/cult leader, a black or Hispanic one is a gang lord.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 19, 2013, 12:14:26 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?
Probably a cultural barrier. In the US, a white cult leader who is involved in drug crime is a guru/cult leader, a black or Hispanic one is a gang lord.
Yep. And white crime lords have a mystique about them (Al Capone, etc).
Black, Hispanic, and Asian crime lords are thugs.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 19, 2013, 12:19:32 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 19, 2013, 12:14:26 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:
Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".
Seriously.
The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.
It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?
When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.
"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Ever seen a black guru?
I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?
Probably a cultural barrier. In the US, a white cult leader who is involved in drug crime is a guru/cult leader, a black or Hispanic one is a gang lord.
Yep. And white crime lords have a mystique about them (Al Capone, etc).
Black, Hispanic, and Asian crime lords are thugs.
And they are never described as "Charismatic" or "Intelligent", but as "Violent" and "Intimidating".
Ah, got it. Not thought about that side of things at all. There's probably something to play with there.
Is it worth bringing up the point that you get appointed Pope and you elect yourself Guru?
Are we including monks and similar spiritual people in our definition of guru? we seem to be focusing a lot on American cult leaders.
I think there's definitely an important distinction to be made between the motivations of gurus.
Like in the OP. Gang Lords, Scientologists, Charlie Manson, crazy or just plain evil bastards who are nakedly out for themselves are one thing. Then there's people who genuinely want to help others better themselves - your Gandhis, Martin Luther Kings, and Founding Father style figures.
Being a leader isn't inherently a bad thing. Its the old saying - the people who want to lead are the last people you want doing it. But sometimes- not often for sure but not never- there are people who find themselves elevated because they really do have something to say worth listening to, and they really do have to show us what.
If the word 'guru' has to contain both those meanings, it is a useless word. One of these groups of people is worth listening to, and one of them isn't, though they are ALL likely to wind up torn to shreds by history and their own followers, given long enough.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 19, 2013, 12:25:37 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 19, 2013, 12:19:32 AM
Yep. And white crime lords have a mystique about them (Al Capone, etc).
Black, Hispanic, and Asian crime lords are thugs.
And they are never described as "Charismatic" or "Intelligent", but as "Violent" and "Intimidating".
I don't know about that.
El Chapo and Pablo Escobar were described both described as highly charismatic and intelligent, despite the evidence to the contrary (especially with Guzman). And the adoption of gang culture by hip-hop has added a certain mystique to some black gang leaders.
I suspect it has a lot more to do with their links to the existing power structure than race per se, though historically Italian and Irish organized crime would have been more acceptable to a mostly white power elite than blacks, hispanics and Jews (still discriminated against, depending on the exact period, but relatively speaking).
For example, both El Chapo and Escobar were involved in supporting the Contras with the CIA, and had high level links within their own native governments. They could flaunt their wealth and lifestyle prominently, in the way "respectable" white gangsters used to, and so got a reputation for a Robin Hood kind of status and public charity, despite, you know, the bombings and assassinations and torture in basements.
As the power structure has diversified, so has the level of acceptance.
I was speaking primarily in terms of how American popular media refers to these small cults that run drugs (there were a ton in the NW in the 80's and 90's) with white charismatic leaders vs. primarily black groups with black charismatic leaders who engage in the same activities, because that's what I'm surrounded by, which is why I mentioned to Junkenstein there may be a cultural barrier between his perceptions and my perceptions.