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Gurus

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, November 18, 2013, 08:29:19 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Every so often, we get a person who comes through looking to be a guru.  Brother Nihil, for example, was here to tell us WHAT, and to lead us to a glorious new future with no women or smudgy people.  Then, when they get laughed at, they get all butthurt and pissy.

It occurs to me to ask WHY someone would want to be a guru in the first place.  Have they read no history books?  Charley "Anything For a Laugh" Manson and Jim Jones came to good ends, right?  Or, on the other side of the coin, how did it turn out for Jesus and Gandhi?

I think that perhaps it is the idea of having some form of power in a world in which the would-be guru is powerless (Internet Pagans), or perhaps it's just a need for young 'tang (Uncle BadTouch).  In any case, the life of a guru is a special kind of hell that you have to sign up for.  You have to go looking for your audience, you have to rope them in, and then, you know, don't come crying to me when you actually get what you thought you wanted.

And what is it that they wanted?  Oh, yeah, to be surrounded by weak-willed jellyfish and/or damage cases looking for a parental figure.  WELL DONE, THAT MAN.

Now, I'd like to make it clear that I am NOT talking about people with strong opinions.  I am talking about people who actively seek follower zombies.  Because most people here have strong opinions, but most people here aren't interested in being the next David Koresh.

I know I have strong opinions, but anyone who follows me will soon learn that I don't have strong continence at the best of times, and I deliberately leave little "love offerings" for anyone who decides that I am the leader.

Or Kill Me walk in my poop.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

You raise a good point.  What kind of person desires to be surrounded by people who they feel are not equals to themselves?

A lifetime of explaining yourself to people who, by definition, just don't get it is a horrifying and painful life, and should be avoided at all costs.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 18, 2013, 08:37:18 PM
You raise a good point.  What kind of person desires to be surrounded by people who they feel are not equals to themselves?

A lifetime of explaining yourself to people who, by definition, just don't get it is a horrifying and painful life, and should be avoided at all costs.

I expect that most of them just can't see past the notion of having lackeys.  Or an endless supply of brain-damaged bed partners.

Both of these things, of course, go back to wanting power in a world in which the person in question is powerless.  Monkey behavior.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

East Coast Hustle

I couldn't agree more. And I'd draw a parallel to the broader cultural phenomenon of people thinking that celebrity is the ultimate goal of life. I suspect that most people, if forced to choose, would rather be famous than wealthy. And that's just insane to me.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Fucking wannabe gurus. I don't fucking get what kind of damage it takes to WANT to have followers. Jesus fuck... if you want adoration, get a dog. Dogs are great. People will KILL YOU, or worse, they'll kill FOR you, or get themselves killed. No fucking thanks.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Junkenstein

Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:

Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".

Seriously.

The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.

It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?

When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.

"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

hooplala

Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:

Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".

Seriously.

The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.

It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?

When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.

"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.

This.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

P3nT4gR4m

Tangent: At what point does a guru become the pope?

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

hooplala

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:13:09 PM
Tangent: At what point does a guru become the pope?

When he decides that wearing a funny hat is part of his mojo?
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

P3nT4gR4m

What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.


I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

hooplala

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.

Well, I suppose you could say that about any leadership role, no?  At least the Pope has his hat.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Hoopla on November 18, 2013, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.

Well, I suppose you could say that about any leadership role, no?  At least the Pope has his hat.

Yeah but we're talking about gurus specifically. And Roger (and others) were pointing out that it makes no sense to want to be one. I don't necessarily see it that way. Offering the guy in the white dress as an example of a successful guru.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

hooplala

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:31:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on November 18, 2013, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
What I mean is, on the surface at least, the only difference I see between the pope and charlie manson is one of popularity. Just like crime - the appeal is not to be a petty criminal, it's making it all the way to Al Capone.

Well, I suppose you could say that about any leadership role, no?  At least the Pope has his hat.

Yeah but we're talking about gurus specifically. And Roger (and others) were pointing out that it makes no sense to want to be one. I don't necessarily see it that way. Offering the guy in the white dress as an example of a successful guru.

Ok yeah, but he has to drive around in a little bulletproof car.  So... there's that.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Junkenstein

Couple of further thoughts:

"Guru" does have a number of religious/spritiual overtones and for those of that ilk, to me there is little difference between them beyond the titles and such they give themselves.

There's the other sort that we may overlook here - The "Lifestyle" Guru. The people who tell you that you'll get a raise if you move the chair. That kind of shit.

There's an industry of these people now working hand in hand with bullshit alternative medicine guys. It's a racket that exists mainly to exploit the rich and vapid, however it remains that - A racket that preys on the susceptible.

Armies of these people go forth daily "consulting" and having very important meetings with very wealthy people where precisely nothing of real value takes place yet significant cash is exchanged. If I was being very cynical, I'd say something about money laundering. There surely must be more than a few gaming the system in this manner.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:

Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".

Seriously.

The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.

It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?

When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.

"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.

Both also employ isolation, physically or otherwise, and alienation from any outside attachments.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.