You have been fooled. You are a fool. You fool other people. Other people fool you. The television lies. You lie. Other people lie. You eat shit out of a can put in there by a machine that also lies. Yes, machines lie. They do it better then people, because you,Äôve been trained to think they do not lie. Yes, that is botulism in your string beans. You,Äôre now dead. Yes, that is botulism in your forehead, it,Äôll make you look better, I swear.
We are obsessed with superiority. We are intrigued by mystery. We are dependant upon machines. And, despite everything else we die anyway. But, we want to look good doing it.
Death is a nasty, messy business. There is little dignity in death. You can try to put it there, but shit still stinks, and corpses still rot. Get over it.
Taxidermists never work on humans. Though, once I kissed a dead dear on the lips, while dressed as a preacher who was a member of the KKK. It,Äôs all rather involved. But, the dear still looked rather nice. I,Äôm sure grandma would look great mounted on the wall, don,Äôt you?
There are things in life that will never be pretty. No matter how much we wish to run from biological fact, we can never outrun the very thing providing us with our locomotion. Society today runs from the facts, rather then facing them.
If you can,Äôt run, hide. If you can,Äôt hide, then the Gestapo will be happy to help you comply with regulation.
If you do not fight the Jihad, the quiet things will creep up on you and kill you slowly. Better to fight them out in the open and let them kill you like a man. At least then we,Äôll have some respect for you.
But, there is no dignity in death. Though, the way you live, there is no dignity in life either.
I disagree, there is dignity in death. The only shame, as Musashi says, is in dying a stupid and meaningless death. I would rather go down knowing I had fought with every trick I know, for a cause which was true and right, then live on my knees as a craven slave, robbed even of hope.
Death is virtually never pretty, I can attest first hand. But to die with dignity is possible, because dignity is in the eye of the one dying. Few people want to die anymore. But the way of Death can be another form of liberation, as all paths lead to a death of some kind.
I also disagree. Death is the welcome slumber from a long life spent on this mortal and vicious plane. For some it comes sooner than others. Call it God's will or the will of the universe it will happen to everyone. And not everyone is going to die in a blaze of glory. We simply don't live in those times anymore. Society makes us fear death which is ridiculous because it is the one thing we all know for certain is going to happen to us. But we can do the best we can to maximize the brief blink of time we share in this mortal world so that when we finally do close our eyes for the final time, it will be well deserved and quite dignified.
it may be possible that death is the ONLY place you can find dignity
Quote from: LHXit may be possible that death is the ONLY place you can find dignity
I was actually attending a funeral yesterday. My uncle passed away on Wednesday and while it was unexpected and very tragic I couldn't help but to look at him lying there and think about how peaceful he looked. Of course if he had the choice I'm sure he'd much rather be alive but there was a man who's done alot in his life and raised a wonderful family and has left quite a legacy. He didn't move mountains, he didn't win a Nobel prize but he was a good man. To me, he looked very dignified in death.
Quote from: LHXit may be possible that death is the ONLY place you can find dignity
Except for the whole bowels releasing thing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: LHXit may be possible that death is the ONLY place you can find dignity
Except for the whole bowels releasing thing.
This is the correct hearst.
did you mean "hearse"?
or did you really mean (http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/images/2003/12/22/hearst.jpg)?
I hearby award Zurtok with "teh awesum spellur awarrd!"
Edit:
(http://bokertov.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/islamic_jihad_w_koran_and_rifle.jpg)
Quote from: fnordiscordiaI hearby award Zurtok with "teh awesum spellur awarrd!"
Careful. He's a mod.
I know but we must
FIGHT THE POWER
at any and all costs.
Quote from: fnordiscordiaI know but we must
FIGHT THE POWER
at any and all costs.
Indeed. Mister Power.
Thou doth protest too much, Mr. Mod.
Quote from: fnordiscordiaThou doth protest too much, Mr. Mod.
Shut it, tyrant-boi!
STOP OPPRESSING ME!
I think that most people are afraid of death, simply because they can't control it. Noone can decide whether to live or to be dead, noone KNOWS if he will wake up the next morning.
and you can't go back once you are dead, you have to leave everything behind you. so much about fear.
dignity on the other hand - the question for me is if a dead person is still a real person or if it's dignity lies in it's life.
your "glorious" death still is part of your life. a corpse is a dead body, nothing more and nothing less.
Mmmmm... Dignity.
Quote from: priest of the holy acornI think that most people are afraid of death, simply because they can't control it. Noone can decide whether to live or to be dead, noone KNOWS if he will wake up the next morning.
See, this is part of the appeal for doctor-assisted suicide in cases of terminal illness. It gives them that one last measure of control, to say "I choose to die now, rather than see just how much more my body will deteriorate before it finally ceases to function". Whenever I hear the phrase "death with dignity", that's what comes to my mind.
Though I suppose it'd also help the image of "death with dignity" if the dying person was able to get a couple of good enemas to make sure the bowels were empty at the time of death. 'Cause there ain't much dignified about pooping yourself. Hilarious, yes; dignified, no.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 04, 2006, 04:51:11 PM
I also disagree. Death is the welcome slumber from a long life spent on this mortal and vicious plane. For some it comes sooner than others. Call it God's will or the will of the universe it will happen to everyone. And not everyone is going to die in a blaze of glory. We simply don't live in those times anymore. Society makes us fear death which is ridiculous because it is the one thing we all know for certain is going to happen to us. But we can do the best we can to maximize the brief blink of time we share in this mortal world so that when we finally do close our eyes for the final time, it will be well deserved and quite dignified.
Unless a morgue worker rapes your corpse.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 04, 2006, 04:51:11 PM
I also disagree. Death is the welcome slumber from a long life spent on this mortal and vicious plane. For some it comes sooner than others. Call it God's will or the will of the universe it will happen to everyone. And not everyone is going to die in a blaze of glory. We simply don't live in those times anymore. Society makes us fear death which is ridiculous because it is the one thing we all know for certain is going to happen to us. But we can do the best we can to maximize the brief blink of time we share in this mortal world so that when we finally do close our eyes for the final time, it will be well deserved and quite dignified.
Unless a morgue worker rapes your corpse.
At that point I wouldn't care.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 15, 2010, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 04, 2006, 04:51:11 PM
I also disagree. Death is the welcome slumber from a long life spent on this mortal and vicious plane. For some it comes sooner than others. Call it God's will or the will of the universe it will happen to everyone. And not everyone is going to die in a blaze of glory. We simply don't live in those times anymore. Society makes us fear death which is ridiculous because it is the one thing we all know for certain is going to happen to us. But we can do the best we can to maximize the brief blink of time we share in this mortal world so that when we finally do close our eyes for the final time, it will be well deserved and quite dignified.
Unless a morgue worker rapes your corpse.
At that point I wouldn't care.
Unless the Egyptians were right. There's no reason to believe they weren't.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 15, 2010, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 04, 2006, 04:51:11 PM
I also disagree. Death is the welcome slumber from a long life spent on this mortal and vicious plane. For some it comes sooner than others. Call it God's will or the will of the universe it will happen to everyone. And not everyone is going to die in a blaze of glory. We simply don't live in those times anymore. Society makes us fear death which is ridiculous because it is the one thing we all know for certain is going to happen to us. But we can do the best we can to maximize the brief blink of time we share in this mortal world so that when we finally do close our eyes for the final time, it will be well deserved and quite dignified.
Unless a morgue worker rapes your corpse.
At that point I wouldn't care.
Unless the Egyptians were right. There's no reason to believe they weren't.
If it happened and they were right, I would write a story about it for my next book! :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 15, 2010, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on March 04, 2006, 04:51:11 PM
I also disagree. Death is the welcome slumber from a long life spent on this mortal and vicious plane. For some it comes sooner than others. Call it God's will or the will of the universe it will happen to everyone. And not everyone is going to die in a blaze of glory. We simply don't live in those times anymore. Society makes us fear death which is ridiculous because it is the one thing we all know for certain is going to happen to us. But we can do the best we can to maximize the brief blink of time we share in this mortal world so that when we finally do close our eyes for the final time, it will be well deserved and quite dignified.
Unless a morgue worker rapes your corpse.
At that point I wouldn't care.
Unless the Egyptians were right. There's no reason to believe they weren't.
In that case we're all fucked. No food, no clothes and no Book of the Dead to read from.
Besides, Anubis quit:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=18464.msg615060#msg615060
Quote from: Zurtok Khan on March 03, 2006, 07:26:23 AM
You have been fooled. You are a fool. You fool other people. Other people fool you. The television lies. You lie. Other people lie. You eat shit out of a can put in there by a machine that also lies. Yes, machines lie. They do it better then people, because you,Äôve been trained to think they do not lie. Yes, that is botulism in your string beans. You,Äôre now dead. Yes, that is botulism in your forehead, it,Äôll make you look better, I swear.
We are obsessed with superiority. We are intrigued by mystery. We are dependant upon machines. And, despite everything else we die anyway. But, we want to look good doing it.
Death is a nasty, messy business. There is little dignity in death. You can try to put it there, but shit still stinks, and corpses still rot. Get over it.
Taxidermists never work on humans. Though, once I kissed a dead dear on the lips, while dressed as a preacher who was a member of the KKK. It,Äôs all rather involved. But, the dear still looked rather nice. I,Äôm sure grandma would look great mounted on the wall, don,Äôt you?
There are things in life that will never be pretty. No matter how much we wish to run from biological fact, we can never outrun the very thing providing us with our locomotion. Society today runs from the facts, rather then facing them.
If you can,Äôt run, hide. If you can,Äôt hide, then the Gestapo will be happy to help you comply with regulation.
If you do not fight the Jihad, the quiet things will creep up on you and kill you slowly. Better to fight them out in the open and let them kill you like a man. At least then we,Äôll have some respect for you.
But, there is no dignity in death. Though, the way you live, there is no dignity in life either.
Fuck, I STILL hate that greasy racist fuckburger.
Quote from: First City Hustle on October 15, 2010, 07:58:56 PM
Quote from: Zurtok Khan on March 03, 2006, 07:26:23 AM
You have been fooled. You are a fool. You fool other people. Other people fool you. The television lies. You lie. Other people lie. You eat shit out of a can put in there by a machine that also lies. Yes, machines lie. They do it better then people, because you,Äôve been trained to think they do not lie. Yes, that is botulism in your string beans. You,Äôre now dead. Yes, that is botulism in your forehead, it,Äôll make you look better, I swear.
We are obsessed with superiority. We are intrigued by mystery. We are dependant upon machines. And, despite everything else we die anyway. But, we want to look good doing it.
Death is a nasty, messy business. There is little dignity in death. You can try to put it there, but shit still stinks, and corpses still rot. Get over it.
Taxidermists never work on humans. Though, once I kissed a dead dear on the lips, while dressed as a preacher who was a member of the KKK. It,Äôs all rather involved. But, the dear still looked rather nice. I,Äôm sure grandma would look great mounted on the wall, don,Äôt you?
There are things in life that will never be pretty. No matter how much we wish to run from biological fact, we can never outrun the very thing providing us with our locomotion. Society today runs from the facts, rather then facing them.
If you can,Äôt run, hide. If you can,Äôt hide, then the Gestapo will be happy to help you comply with regulation.
If you do not fight the Jihad, the quiet things will creep up on you and kill you slowly. Better to fight them out in the open and let them kill you like a man. At least then we,Äôll have some respect for you.
But, there is no dignity in death. Though, the way you live, there is no dignity in life either.
Fuck, I STILL hate that greasy racist fuckburger.
He was the one that hated Mexicans, right? And Cowass was the one that hated Blacks?
Yeah, Zurtok somehow hated mexicans, in spite of the fact that he himself was a member of a highly-persecuted group (gay people in Utah). Until a couple of months ago I made it a point to go over to EB&G every couple of months just to piss in his cheerios. I stopped because the last time I did it I ended up pissing Bella and Liam off, and I like them more than I like fucking with some greasy racist shitwad.
There is little dignity in life, who are you to expect dignity in death? Go revise imagination elsewhere please.
Anywhere that is quiet and still enough to hear yourself think.
That is where dignity is.
in that case im the most dignified of them all
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 16, 2010, 08:12:39 AM
Anywhere that is quiet and still enough to hear yourself think.
That is where dignity is.
Dignity is "people demanding to be treated as people". It goes hand in hand with respect, which is "treating people like people".
Quote from: Kai on October 17, 2010, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 16, 2010, 08:12:39 AM
Anywhere that is quiet and still enough to hear yourself think.
That is where dignity is.
Dignity is "people demanding to be treated as people". It goes hand in hand with respect, which is "treating people like people".
Well yeah, I mean it's in the dictionary right there. I was trying for more of a profound sort of thing. Nevermind.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/k8/how_to_seem_and_be_deep/
That's not the standard method people use to tell me I'm full of shit, but alright.
In this world, there are a few people willing to give and receive respect with us. With them, we have a measure of dignity. Although even in exceptional cases, it's not perfect. People generally aren't. And outside of those precious few, most people won't even bother themselves if they see you having a heart attack or getting raped and murdered. They're bystanders at best, and tyrants at worst, until some mutual dignity can be established. There's no dignity in a city, where human contact has become too much of a good thing. But alone, where it is quiet, and we find a moment to reflect, is the only time we can exist without the untoward pressure to behave. Perhaps I am weaker than most in this way, but I cannot be pleasant forever without time to myself, to gather the parts of me that must be silenced in order to appear polite and socially compliant. When I'm alone, I have at least the dignity of my own thoughts.
Complete that pattern, why don't ya.
Quote from: Kai on October 17, 2010, 11:09:37 PM
http://lesswrong.com/lw/k8/how_to_seem_and_be_deep/
ooh
thanks for posting that, it was a great read
Yeah, there's no dignity in what happens to you in any sense of the word when you die. I just finished reading that Stiff book http://www.amazon.com/Stiff-Curious-Lives-Human-Cadavers/dp/0393050939 ...and yeah, everything that happens to you? It's pretty damned undignified, no matter what the result may LOOK like.
I read that too.
My only other thought is that when yo die, is it appropriate to keep associating the person with the body? I think a person can go on existing as a construct after they're dead. The people who knew them well have little models of them in their heads. The world has information from their minds imprinted in it. That's the stuff that should be treated with dignity. The body is just messy stuff that some people have a use for, perhaps.
I think we have no choice. We know each other as corporeal beings, even if you have never seen their bodies before. Take online existences--how do you relate to a person whose words you see on a screen? Do you imagine them in space, or typing them out?
I think it's really tough to truly MISS someone unless you can conceptualize their physical being, but perhaps I'm overgeneralizing from my own experience. I know it's physically painful to me when I've lost someone I love and have loved. And I feel way less connected if I don't know someone IRL or have never met them or even talked with them on the phone. Physicality makes attachment just that much stronger, I believe. The rest seems just so much conjecture.
Just because it's natural to feel that way, doesn't make it true or okay.
These days however, most of my relational needs are satisfied by text messages, phone calls, emails, and forums. I have a pretty strong mind/body disconnection going right now.
What is this "true"? What is this "okay"? It just is.
As to the second part of your second paragraph, Felix...the first sentence explains it all.
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2010, 08:34:32 PM
What is this "true"? What is this "okay"? It just is.
Basically I'm placing a value judgment on a feeling that I sometimes have. I am okay with this.
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2010, 08:34:32 PM
As to the second part of your second paragraph, Felix...the first sentence explains it all.
Which?
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 22, 2010, 02:52:54 AM
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2010, 08:34:32 PM
What is this "true"? What is this "okay"? It just is.
Basically I'm placing a value judgment on a feeling that I sometimes have. I am okay with this.
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2010, 08:34:32 PM
As to the second part of your second paragraph, Felix...the first sentence explains it all.
Which?
Huh. K. And I meant the first part of your 2d paragraph explains the last half--your feeling of disconnection could be because you're pretty physically disconnected.