Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Literate Chaotic => Topic started by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 05:38:17 am

Title: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 05:38:17 am
I am re-reading Liber Kaos... I haven't read it since college and that was when it was called The Phyconomicon... and had all the Math.

Anyway

It has reminded me painfully of that Oh So simple truth of Liber Boomerang.  In it has been a while for you it is the effect of creating whatever you struggle against.
"deny aggression to find the bloody knife shaking in your hand."

So with that in mind: I simply can't let go of how much I hate a particular person, Because I have been er Ashamed of how much I didn't like them in the first place (that is a fucked up little place to be by the way.)... that struggle has in turn caused me to Violently loath them more then I have ever loathed anyone in my life, (which is both Annoying and Highly educational).  I have created a Mega-Demon of hatred.  And the only way to escape it is to express it.

Which is why while passing his jeep this evening I paused to spit a giant loogy onto his window.

I am not proud. :oops:

But I do feel better.  :D  Just thinking of him scraping my frozen lung snot off of his passenger side door the entire time thinking... Who the fuck spat on my car!  Having held in my hate like a fart he would never expect me.  This is by the way the most ridiculously stupid childish thing that I have done in a long time.  (See how repressed I am!  How did I let this happen! :sad:)

And... the best part is for the first time in MONTHS I can think about this guy without feeling intense anger.

So I am working on other things to take full advantage of this method of Sleight of mind...

I was wondering if anyone else has played with it, and if so what was the "goal"... what was your result?

I have also been thinking about thinking of myself as a conglomeration of beings... which is different from Buddhism where you spend most of your time thinking of yourself as an illusion (no not illusion... but you know the theory)... I used to look in the mirror and think, MY GOD!! I AM!  It is frightening to suddenly realize that you are a SINGLE flesh and blood person, I would rather be everything and everyone present in the room.  Of course that is just an illusion too.  Flesh and blood person, sure Single ha ya not ever.

So has anyone else frightened themselves by looking in the mirror and remembering what they are supposed to think of themselves as... or am I nutty?  Or look in the mirror and remember that you exist.  oh that is a eye opener.

Well... I read the Noobs please read post.   So tell me what a stupid fuck hole i am. I know you arn't impressed i know i just waisted your time, i know i have huge and distracting boobs that you can't see but you KNOW are there pressed up against...  err

What I mean to say is...

I mean Let the Hazing begin!

My Masochistic personality is rising to the surface as I type excitedly awaiting you verbal abuse!

Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 05:41:26 am
 :argh!:

I posted that in the wrong place.

I am SUCH a noob.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Cain on November 29, 2007, 10:33:32 am
Where would you like it posted?  BIP?

I'll get back to you on content after another coffee or so.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Messier Undertree on November 29, 2007, 01:06:31 pm
Have you ever gone by the name Pyritu?

I think I might know you.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Cain on November 29, 2007, 01:18:07 pm
4 hours later, and I have still not had that coffee.  Or breakfast.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on November 29, 2007, 02:35:35 pm
4 hours later, and I have still not had that coffee.  Or breakfast.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Siochain/gourmet_breakfast.jpg)

Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: AFK on November 29, 2007, 02:42:15 pm
Man, I wish that had been my breakfast.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Cain on November 29, 2007, 02:47:48 pm
Too late, I had marcaroni and worcestshire sauce for breakfast.

Anyway, I'm not sure what tack to take on this.  This sounds like an excellent BIP-esque topic with lots of possible avenues of discussion, but I suppose my failing is that I'm not exactly sure what method you are talking about?  I haven't read Liber Kaos, and if I had to guess, I would assume you meant the general building up of loathing and dislike before the one symbolic act which lets it all out.  But I'm not certain, so I would like some clarification.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LMNO on November 29, 2007, 02:49:57 pm

I mean Let the Hazing begin!

My Masochistic personality is rising to the surface as I type excitedly awaiting you verbal abuse!



You gotta wait another 47 posts...


I like where you're going with the piece, though.  Repressed vs expressed emotion? 
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 03:42:23 pm
 :mrgreen:Apple talk would be fine!
47 posts before a good hazing.

I am DISAPPOINTED!

Yes Repressed Vs Expressed Emtion... but where i am really going is far far deeper then that, atleast i think so.
Or atleast i think it could be when drawn to the finel conculsion.

See throwing all of your monney away with the intent of being broke only to be constantly under seige by large gifts of cash.  Of course the Monney goddess is trickier then that and you would have to get over all of your hang ups and truely desire to be broke.

Let me Quote the book... Since i was basicaly asked too.

SLEIGHT OF MIND IN DEMONOLOGY A surprise addition. "Liber Boomerang"
A god ignored is a demon born.
Think you to hypertrophy some selves at the expense of others?
That which is denied gains power, and seeks strange and unexpected forms of manifestation.
Deny Death and other forms of Suicide will arise.
Deny Sex and bizzarre forms of its expression will torment you.
Deny Love and absurd sentimentalities will disable you.
Deny Aggression only to stare eventually at the bloody Knife in your shaking hand.
Deny honest Fear and Desire only to create senseless neuroticism and avarice.
Deny Laughter and the world laughs at you.
Deny Magic only to become a confused robot, inexplicable even unto yourself.

So with that said, and knowing that a demon is only a god acting out of turn: I had manifested this Mega-hate by trying to deny it in the first place.

What if I Attempt to deny love for the same person?  While expressing my loathing and thereby disgorging the demon I created… Would I fall madly in love with him?

In a more complex and more interesting serenio…

Let’s say I have a fear of being alone.  I do.  Like a good soldier I repress most of my weaknesses.
So my fear of being alone is a mega-demon in it’s own right.

Can I Liber Boomerang this?

How… First Express the fear and disgorge the demon…
Second, intentionally deny any desire I have to be alone?

Fear Rejection?
Fear Poverty?
Repressing the nagging desire to kill your self?

Repressing the nagging desire to kill your self is another of my favorite hang ups.  Completely out of the blue my mind will say, “OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!”

“Shut UP you moron I am watching TV.”

So Now I have Denied that.
Which is why it wont go away!
So how do you express a suicidal erge without, well causing permanent damage.

That would be some serious sleight of mind.

Pyritru... No I make a rule never to name a self something that the other selves can't pronounce... it makes them unhappy.  And then they tease the self with the funny name.

I am:
carmen
ishondra
julia
rose
lady
terretiz
maggotshield
and many others.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 29, 2007, 05:12:14 pm
Ladybird,

I think you're on the right track if you're using the Liber Kaos model that way. If we consider Gods as aspects of the experience of Being Human (or aspects of the human personality or whatever), and demons as those aspects when they're out of whack... then yeah, you're on the right motorcycle.

<i>I had manifested this Mega-hate by trying to deny it in the first place.</i>

In a CM model yes... in a psychology model, you didn't deal with your emotions and thus you got some psychological baggage.

However, don't confuse the normal human experience of weirdness ("OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!”) with repressing the emotions required to deal with something. Ideas and Demons are two different things. That being said, I have a friend that was very depressed... however, h'd done a great job repressing the issues. He began to experience what he called blackouts, where he would suddenly realize that he had somehow placed himself in a dangerous position, once he "came to" with a razor blade at his wrist, once with a noose around his neck. Obviously, it seems highly likely that he consciously put himself in those positions, but became rational before execution. Weather he lied about not realizing it, or if his brain blocked out the process that put him in those positions, I can't say. However, the 'idea' had become a demon for him. a demon that was only beaten when he dealt with the multitude of issues that had caused his depression... and as part of that he included a series of 'boomerang' rituals once he was well on the road to recovery as a form of 'banishing the demon'...

However, don't confuse what Peter is saying, with what Peter means. Liber kaos (like Liber Null, Psychonaut etc) is full of metaphor. Denying the normal human experience appears to lead to abnormal behavior in humans. (For example, look at the 'moralists' who denied the rights of gays, only to end up in compromising positions themselves.)

Expressing the demon, doesn't always mean that we must act on what the demon wants... rather we may have a symbolic act that is metaphoric of the issue (ritual). We can kill ourselves symbolicly in ritual, and if the ritual is done correctly, it will have some impact on our psychology and thus our Demon in question. Even though the ritual is 'safe' and not really risky in a physical sense... we can Face our Demons (admit that we fear poverty, death, etc) and exorcise them(come to terms with the issue and resolve it). Facing our demons in ritual, where we havesymbols and metaphors to hang on to (circle, LBRP etc), can save us the problem of being 'attacked by demons' in our regular life.

I think.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 06:50:58 pm
Yes.

However:
Perceived Life is at best only metaphor.
Normal life experience is to deny normal human experience.  Hehe

Yes Symbolic ritual is key.

No of course it isn’t.  The problem I find is the ritual has to really stimulate that demon, it can’t be too abstract or it wont work.  Or it doesn’t work for me.  But with any sleight of mind if you perform the ritual while thinking of that goal you have already failed.  

Anyway this:
("OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!”)

Isn’t a thought that occurs out of any desire for suicide at all… instead it is more like a part of my self that is deeply cynical and likes to tease the other aspects of myself with these silly commands.

Or am I simply denying my true desire even now?

It seems wrong to me to be deeply conflicted about weather or not you want to do something of this nature, but at the same time how else could you possibly be.

If a person never long for death even in a philosophical sense then wouldn’t they be overcome with fear of mortality… if a person never desired to live then they would … hehe be dead.

SO I am probably right where I want to be, on the teetertaughter.

But in the case of your friend who seems to have lost control of that balance… he would have to come up with a really good ritual.

I think mine would involve a bungi cord.

How about you?

On a side note.

“you didn't deal with your emotions”

Haha that is the problem in the first place!  The Crazed idea that (Bad) emotions are things that have to be dealt with. 

On a Side side side note
Any of you ever hear of a cult, “Foundation school” or something like that… What do you think of it if you have.  I think they have some pretty neat ritual…but wholly crap it’s expensive.

So far it seems to be over priced watered down Zen with a Kick of discord… which is a nice combo but I can get it for free.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 29, 2007, 07:36:13 pm

Yes Symbolic ritual is key.

No of course it isn’t.  The problem I find is the ritual has to really stimulate that demon, it can’t be too abstract or it wont work.  Or it doesn’t work for me.  But with any sleight of mind if you perform the ritual while thinking of that goal you have already failed.  

I thought that as well after reading Pete's stuff... however, I've taken a couple online classes that he's taught and I know have a slightly different view (besides, Pete's said a number of times that large parts of most of his books could be better/rewritten to reflect what he's come to think since then). The Magic formula that Pete uses relies on G and L (Gnosis and the Magical Link), "slight of mind" might be considered process that happens when you apply those two functions. While "forgetting" can work (as with his examples onf Sigil Magic), ritual and symbolism can work as well. If you make a complex ritual, it becomes easy (for some people) to focus on the minutia of the ritual (G), rather than the goal (M). If you build good symbols (L) into the ritual that also helps. If you can get into the roleplaying/method acting... "Casting out the Demon" ritual becomes slight of mind for fixing a particular aspect of your personality/psychology that you don't like... the entire "Magic" system can be seen as slight of mind in some sense.


Quote
Anyway this:
("OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!”)

Isn’t a thought that occurs out of any desire for suicide at all… instead it is more like a part of my self that is deeply cynical and likes to tease the other aspects of myself with these silly commands.

Or am I simply denying my true desire even now?

It seems wrong to me to be deeply conflicted about weather or not you want to do something of this nature, but at the same time how else could you possibly be.

If a person never long for death even in a philosophical sense then wouldn’t they be overcome with fear of mortality… if a person never desired to live then they would … hehe be dead.

SO I am probably right where I want to be, on the teetertaughter.

But in the case of your friend who seems to have lost control of that balance… he would have to come up with a really good ritual.

I think mine would involve a bungi cord.

How about you?

I was taking classes from Pete (as was my friend) when his issues were going on... I asked Pete about a ritual and his response was one that I think all "magicians" should keep in mind: "Never give a sword, to a man who can't dance. Never give a wand to a man who can't deal with reality." Magic is really useful in effecting changes to your own perception and psychology... but you have to be on a pretty even keel to begin with. The ritual wasn't the cure for my friend... it seemed more like closure. The majority of help came from qualified therapists and doctors. Once they got him back to a functioning level of sanity (or whatever we humans consider sanity), then he was able to purge the fears he had (that he may not come to his sneses until it was too late, that he would always risk finding himself in that state etc). Since then he's also created an "egrigore" to "keep an eye on him", and hopefully "snap him back" if he ever goes that direction again (quotes to infer metaphor).

I think physical risk (bunjee jumping etc) might be a very good piece of ritual to face death. The death ritual that Pete discusses in one of his books (Psychonaut?) may also work. Bunjee jumping would probably be fantastic as Slight of Mind/Gnosis.

Quote
On a side note.

“you didn't deal with your emotions”

Haha that is the problem in the first place!  The Crazed idea that (Bad) emotions are things that have to be dealt with. 

I'm not sure what you mean here.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LMNO on November 29, 2007, 08:20:07 pm
tl:dr.


and, 45.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 09:03:42 pm
44
Hm…

Well I am a fucked up little cookie myself.

::Magic is really useful in effecting changes to your own perception and psychology... but you have to be on a pretty even keel to begin with.::

 “Have to be”
As in for it to work or for it to be safe?

My main purpose for using CM is to alter my psychology.  I am not terribly attached to the current version of myself and would like to try a new one. 

That isn’t to say that Doctors and therapy and medication don’t have a place… Eris knows I have seen my share.

But ultimately if you can change yourself you can change your universe… seems only right to start at the source.

By saying that the idea of “Dealing” with bad emotions is crazed…

I meant that most people would be happier if they only realized that it is perfectly ok to not be happy all the time.  That and didn’t we just decide that deciding that a emotion was “Bad” and then Repressing it was a bad thing? :p
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 09:04:13 pm
43
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 09:04:39 pm
42 :argh!:
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 09:05:06 pm
 :eek:42
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 29, 2007, 09:06:00 pm
 :x
40??!!!

or 41...

Do i get docked because I fucked up my count down?

35?
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LMNO on November 29, 2007, 09:10:02 pm
It's usually not a good sign when people waste their free posts trying to get to the flames.

Just saying.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 29, 2007, 09:21:53 pm
44
Hm…

Well I am a fucked up little cookie myself.

::Magic is really useful in effecting changes to your own perception and psychology... but you have to be on a pretty even keel to begin with.::

 “Have to be”
As in for it to work or for it to be safe?

If a person is not graceful enough to dance, they will likely not be good at swordfighting, either because they will fail to properly parry and void, thus getting gutted, or they will stab themselves.

If a person can't ground themselves in everyday reality, then playing with their existing set of symbols or manipulating their perceptions could easily lead to screwing themsleves up far worse than they already were. In a thread over at POEE, someone mentioned the risk for Method Actors to lose control over their 'real' personality because they're always playing in other personalities. If one's control over their own psychology is already strained, it seems a bad idea to jump up and down on it with tubgirl.

<i>I meant that most people would be happier if they only realized that it is perfectly ok to not be happy all the time.  That and didn’t we just decide that deciding that a emotion was “Bad” and then Repressing it was a bad thing?</i>

Oh... yep I agree with that.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Cain on November 29, 2007, 09:28:37 pm
I can personally testify to the method acting risk, even though I wasn't the one who made the post.

I would agree that the problem is safety more than workability.  I come from an NLP/sociological viewpoint of what's happening, and so I tend to think that so long as your brain is not physically different to most other people, you can still effect the changes.  The problem is the strain on one's worldview/personality/ability to cope etc
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: rygD on November 30, 2007, 08:03:35 am
On a Side side side note
Any of you ever hear of a cult, “Foundation school” or something like that… What do you think of it if you have.  I think they have some pretty neat ritual…but wholly crap it’s expensive.

So far it seems to be over priced watered down Zen with a Kick of discord… which is a nice combo but I can get it for free.

Is this what you want?
http://www.foundationschools.org/
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 30, 2007, 03:06:06 pm
It's usually not a good sign when people waste their free posts trying to get to the flames

Hmm… Well I was promised verbal abuse… Generally I like to get things like that out of the way.  No sense getting comfortable only to find that you were never welcome to begin with.   :wink: Besides, Waiting IS the hardest part.

Don't get me wrong when it comes to lasting postive self change from ANY mechanism the last thing it should be like is Banging.   :lulz:

I think our minds while Squishy to real pressure are very much like a beach ball sitting on the surface of the water.  But instead of more water on the other side of the surface there is a “Different mental state” so you can gently, slowly and consistently push that beach ball across the surface and into the other state where it will happily float on the opposing surface.  Kind of like passing through the looking glass… if my analogy is a bit messy.

So I KNOW that with time and effort you can pass threw to the other side as a completely different person.  Except you are Still the beach ball… and that is Still the surface of the water.  So nothing ever really changes.

I am not trying to be confusing… sorry.

You know I just have to say that I am apposed to this wording, “If a person can't ground themselves in everyday reality”

Specifically “Ground”

I am a highly ungrounded person, it’s both my nature and my nurture… but I think that being Grounded is a highly unnatural state.  I think that comes from my background in eastern religions.  Neither who you are OR reality are solid, permanent, or stable.  How could you possibly expect to ground two things together that have such chaotic qualities.  I think trying too could make you madder then a hatter.  I know what you MENT, I just don’t like how you said it.  Unless you really meant what you said in which case… I don’t agree.

(Did you know that hatters were truly mad?  It is because they used… was it Eather to make the hats… to work the beaver pelts… or was it the formaldehyde?  4 points to who ever knows the name of the chemical!!)

Hm… have to say I like it here… nice to talk all Adult like.   :fnord:

RYGD: NO NO That isn't them... Dang it all!  I'll keep looking
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 30, 2007, 03:09:41 pm
 :argh!: You Could always deflate the ball and then reinflate it on the other side.

I think that is why some people take lots of acid and then are never really the same again.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LMNO on November 30, 2007, 03:13:35 pm
The 50-post rule is fivefold:

1) Allows the newbie to get the pinealist out of their system.

2) Allows the rest of us a period of time to figure out where the noob is coming from.

Numbers 3 - 5 are secret.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 30, 2007, 03:40:55 pm
It's usually not a good sign when people waste their free posts trying to get to the flames

Hmm… Well I was promised verbal abuse… Generally I like to get things like that out of the way.  No sense getting comfortable only to find that you were never welcome to begin with.   :wink: Besides, Waiting IS the hardest part.

Don't get me wrong when it comes to lasting postive self change from ANY mechanism the last thing it should be like is Banging.   :lulz:

I think our minds while Squishy to real pressure are very much like a beach ball sitting on the surface of the water.  But instead of more water on the other side of the surface there is a “Different mental state” so you can gently, slowly and consistently push that beach ball across the surface and into the other state where it will happily float on the opposing surface.  Kind of like passing through the looking glass… if my analogy is a bit messy.

So I KNOW that with time and effort you can pass threw to the other side as a completely different person.  Except you are Still the beach ball… and that is Still the surface of the water.  So nothing ever really changes.

I am not trying to be confusing… sorry.

You know I just have to say that I am apposed to this wording, “If a person can't ground themselves in everyday reality”

Specifically “Ground”

I am a highly ungrounded person, it’s both my nature and my nurture… but I think that being Grounded is a highly unnatural state.  I think that comes from my background in eastern religions.  Neither who you are OR reality are solid, permanent, or stable.  How could you possibly expect to ground two things together that have such chaotic qualities.  I think trying too could make you madder then a hatter.  I know what you MENT, I just don’t like how you said it.  Unless you really meant what you said in which case… I don’t agree.


I think you're reading far more into the word ground than I intended. Perhaps I should have said "If you can't deal with reality on a regular basis, then you probably shouldn't get involved in magic". I have had many experiences while playing with magic, if I wasn't able to ground myself in reality before and after the event, it may have been easy to confuse my subjective experience with Objective Reality (whatever that might be). For example, once I had an out of body experience. If I couldn't ground myself in reality after the experience, I might (and I know many people who have) run around convinced that I REALLY ejected my soul out of my body and experienced this state and did things that were really real. Whereas, if I have some grounding in reality, once the experience is done, I can say "I experienced what appeared to me as an out of body experience, however it may have been...." I once invoked Therion and spent several minutes in a very strange trance like state, where observers saw me crawling around on all fours like a Beast. In my mind I was a beast, in a field... I could see the fur on my body, I could perceive my surroundings through the different heads of Therion.

If I were to be convinced (in my own mind) that this was REALLY REAL and REALLY Happened... then I risk becoming a crazy person. Thus one has to be able to return to some "normal" state (whatever that may be for themselves) and examine the experience through as many different filters as possible. (The "Maybe It Happened filter", the "It Was a Psychological Experiment filter", the "It was Self-Induced Hallucination filter", the "It was My UPG filter", or the "It Was Very Interesting and the Ritual Seems to Have effected a Result filter"). If I can't ground myself afterward, I may forget that all of those filters are probably true in some sense, false in some sense and meaningless in some sense. I may actually lock one of those filters in place as REALITY. That way lies a risk of serious madness.

Quote
(Did you know that hatters were truly mad?  It is because they used… was it Eather to make the hats… to work the beaver pelts… or was it the formaldehyde?  4 points to who ever knows the name of the chemical!!)


Mercury.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LMNO on November 30, 2007, 04:58:10 pm
Rat, loathe as I am to reference Castaneda, your post reminds me about his story about his first trip, where he thought he was communing with God, or whatever after taking peyote.

He asked the other indians in the group what "really" happened, and they said that while he was having this glorious mystical experience in his head, he was actually pissing on a dog.


Or something like that.  Castaneda was a fraud, anyway.

Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 30, 2007, 05:08:54 pm
Rat, loathe as I am to reference Castaneda, your post reminds me about his story about his first trip, where he thought he was communing with God, or whatever after taking peyote.

He asked the other indians in the group what "really" happened, and they said that while he was having this glorious mystical experience in his head, he was actually pissing on a dog.


Or something like that.  Castaneda was a fraud, anyway.



LOL, I read The Teachings of Don Juan before any of Carroll's, Hine's or even RAW's stuff. That was the best part... well that and the bit where he keeps freaking out when getting on a plane. (Whoops, fubar'd that reimprinting didn't ya Carlos!)
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 30, 2007, 05:28:47 pm
Yes yes yes I know and I agree with you… to an extent.

At some point I think it would be fine to stop experimenting pick an alteration, remove the filter, and do it.

I think you may find that the filter is MUCH harder to remove then you would think.  Stupid filter.
OR at least it would be for me.  With all of my talk of insubstantial-ness I have to admit I am Stupidly grounded (NO bad word!) I am going to go with Repressed.  Repressed is a very specific version of grounded, like all jays are birds but not all birds are jays, you can be grounded (in the sense we discussed) without being repressed but if you are repressed you are probably at least grounded. 

Anyway… My mind tends to be stubborn, uncooperative, and dull at parties.  Especially when I am trying to make it do a trick! Or I am at a party.
Of course the second I am not trying to actively change it… bang I am a different person.

I know Freaking Dancing around the central idea…

I am just restating at this point
DANG IT

Bear with me though… I am just trying to work this out.

Ah… OK here is the motorcycle.  Or rather the question who’s answer may be the motorcycle…

How the Fuck did you get yourself to let go enough to invoke Therion.  Oh ya that’s it.

(Gulp Tear)

Now OBVIOUSLY my repression leads to my chaotic behavior and emotional imbalance. 

Let me preface that with I am probably less repressed then the average joe, but my partial lack of repression only serves to remind me of how much farther I have to go.  I’m THERE!  If you have been here you know what it looks like.  Like … Like a puppy struggling to crawl free of its mothers dead uterus.


MERCURY!!! Well done. 4 pts.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 30, 2007, 06:08:51 pm
Yes yes yes I know and I agree with you… to an extent.

At some point I think it would be fine to stop experimenting pick an alteration, remove the filter, and do it.


I'm not sure what you mean here...

Quote

I think you may find that the filter is MUCH harder to remove then you would think.  Stupid filter.
OR at least it would be for me.  With all of my talk of insubstantial-ness I have to admit I am Stupidly grounded (NO bad word!) I am going to go with Repressed.  Repressed is a very specific version of grounded, like all jays are birds but not all birds are jays, you can be grounded (in the sense we discussed) without being repressed but if you are repressed you are probably at least grounded. 

Anyway… My mind tends to be stubborn, uncooperative, and dull at parties.  Especially when I am trying to make it do a trick! Or I am at a party.
Of course the second I am not trying to actively change it… bang I am a different person.

I know Freaking Dancing around the central idea…

I am just restating at this point
DANG IT

Bear with me though… I am just trying to work this out.

Ah… OK here is the motorcycle.  Or rather the question who’s answer may be the motorcycle…

How the Fuck did you get yourself to let go enough to invoke Therion.  Oh ya that’s it.

Honestly, it surprised me at the time. I was pretty unsure about the whole thing for awhile. However, after more experimentation I think there were several contributing factors. First, I have a wild imagination. Second, I spent the first 23 years of my life in a pretty tweaky religion and had regular meditation/visualization/prayer etc with ol' Jehovah. So I think my brain was already used to invocation, I just always did it third person with YHVH instead of first person. I've also studied method acting and really took to the concept of ritual (since much of my religious training was ritualized, even though they seem too blind to realize it). Also, the environment seemed important, both the ritual space and my headspace. At the time, I wasn't sure what was and wasn't real. I didn't know if this Crowley guy meant that these gods were really real (the way I had thought of Jehovah) or if they were archetypal, or imaginary or what. The group I did the ritual with were extremely competent, the main incense for example smelled very musky or animalistic, secondary scents they used were very fragrant and I think they invoked some memory of a place I had been to often as a child (the field, hill with the tree on the top). The words used to invoke Therion were long poetic descriptions of what he looked like, what his attributes were etc, which in describing made it easier to experience, I guess... like a guided meditation perhaps.

Maybe it was sorta like a lucid dream, where all of these words and smells and ideas gave flesh to the dream state... and maybe it was more like sleepwalking(well crawling) that I was doing... I dunno. I do think that it seems to have effected a permanent change to my personality, though. Before that experience I was still very trapped in my Black Iron Prison (I had no idea the bars were even there)... I'd left the JW's but still had the same philosophical leanings, the same moral taboos, the same concept of good and and and right and wrong. I had gone through a divorce about a year before and still had a lot of baggage from that as well... a lame suicide attempt or two and a complete destruction of any concept of faith or belief. It sucked hard.

However, either because my memory sticks it as a beginning, or the experience was really a new beginning, or whatever... I perceive that invocation as a point of major changes in myself. I went from a very conservative monogamist, that was strongly leaning still toward atheism and a nihilistic materialist view (and I tell ya, those two programs don't run well together) to the squirrel that I am today. Most of those changes really became obvious within weeks of that ritual, including my first orgy.

Or at least, that how it seems to me.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: LadybirdJohnson on November 30, 2007, 06:48:14 pm
SQUIRREL!!!  :argh!:

Eh, Orgies… just butts and elbows to me.   :?

In College I hung with some pretty crazy folk, most of which were discordian, we used to do crazy stuff… or rather I watched them do crazy stuff.  :oops:
I didn’t join in because it was wrong or anything like that… heck I did my share of cajoling and causing of orgies just when it came to the actual sex part I had a tendency to turn people to the closest warm body that wasn’t mine.  But for me I never felt safe; I had lost my virginity to a brutal rape and beating right before I met that crowd when I was 19 or so.  Feeling safe is important even if it is illusion.  Now I am at a point in my life where I could with out a doubt participate, but it doesn’t interest me anymore.  Don’t get me wrong… Sex for simple base physical pleasure is GREAT, but I am looking for More, weather with 1 or 9 people… I just think it would be easier to reach a more interesting level with one.  Recently actually sex started evoking emotions in me.  Which is great, but Seriously odd.  (In my recovery from my experience I spent along time in Robot fuck mode.)  Anyway, I started giggling and laughing with orgasms, or crying, or getting scared.  Quite a trip for me really.  Of course I am 28 and this is the A-typical time when sex becomes REALLY interesting for women anyway… but it is REALLY nice that I have gotten far enough already to be enjoying this Ripening as it were.

Eh.. hm.  Well hm in secoundary reading and thought... I am not sure that is something that was particularly appropriate.  I find that sometimes talking about something like that with strangers can really fuck them up as far as their perseption of you goes.  but I am going to leave it, only with the preface that Yes i mentioned it ... but lol I'm over it.  I just think that my contined evolution is interesting... thought it might be interesting to others.

Hm…
You know…
Just like with the orgies I have gotten people to those experiences, as acting high priestess… but never had a chance to actually do it myself.  Part because of ego… But I Method act a Great high Priestess, so it’s a natural role that I pick up in ritual.  Haha but I was such a fake.  Really that doesn’t matter what matters is if the ritual worked… and it did, so I helped a lot of people get to something new, or experience things that they reported to have really blown their minds.  So ha I thought Ya I got this shit down.  But… I didn’t really realize that I was decorative.  A breathing symbol but in the end only watching… not doing and certainly not learning anything new.  No that wasn’t true… I always knew what a fake I was.   :x

But that is why we have adolescents isn’t it?  :D
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Nast on December 01, 2007, 03:36:13 am


Eh.. hm.  Well hm in secoundary reading and thought... I am not sure that is something that was particularly appropriate.  I find that sometimes talking about something like that with strangers can really fuck them up as far as their perseption of you goes.  but I am going to leave it, only with the preface that Yes i mentioned it ... but lol I'm over it.  I just think that my contined evolution is interesting... thought it might be interesting to others.



So, uh, is this the point at which you're going to tell us that you're a furry?  :wink:
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 01, 2007, 04:20:48 am
1. "Dealing with emotions" is usually code for "accurately recognizing, experiencing, and expressing emotions in a mature and appropriate manner"
2. "Grounded" is usually code for "understands themselves and has a well-developed sense of their own reality to the degree that new experiences will be assimilated and not send them into a tailspin".
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 01, 2007, 05:16:13 am
1. "Dealing with emotions" is usually code for "accurately recognizing, experiencing, and expressing emotions in a mature and appropriate manner"
2. "Grounded" is usually code for "understands themselves and has a well-developed sense of their own reality to the degree that new experiences will be assimilated and not send them into a tailspin".

That would appear as the correct motorcycle to me!
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 01, 2007, 05:19:05 am
 :D I get cookie?
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 01, 2007, 05:43:06 am
:D I get cookie?
(http://www.subway-sg.com/COOKIE.gif)
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 01, 2007, 06:43:30 pm
*OM NOM NOM NOM*
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: rygD on December 01, 2007, 08:49:15 pm
Those chocolate chips don't look right.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Triple Zero on December 04, 2007, 01:42:56 pm
that's a jenkem-chip cookie.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 04, 2007, 05:38:25 pm
that's a jenkem-chip cookie.

Oh that made me sad a little bit.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 04, 2007, 08:09:06 pm
Lies.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: rygD on December 04, 2007, 10:56:33 pm
Smells delicious.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: The Apex, The Harmony Of on December 16, 2007, 10:29:46 am
You dont HAVE to do magick to change. Not everything will need a resolution through 'magick'. But it seems a CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) technique for if you want extreme changes. Or just for fun. But then again even a small change called be called magick since small changes will eventually build up.
CBT (or Magick) seems pointless in some sense, because by the time you want to do it, you have to already be in a position to want it. Suffering from depression gets harder to cure as the person slowly falls into it more, precisely because they cant be bothered to get out of it. So paradoxically the person who needs Magick (CBT), never actually 'gets' it or uses it.

Cracking apart the previous map to paint outside the edges in childish crayola pastel, only to laugh in dazzlement at how badly you really did paint outside the last picture or map.
Title: Re: I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on December 26, 2007, 05:20:35 pm
You dont HAVE to do magick to change. Not everything will need a resolution through 'magick'. But it seems a CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) technique for if you want extreme changes. Or just for fun. But then again even a small change called be called magick since small changes will eventually build up.
CBT (or Magick) seems pointless in some sense, because by the time you want to do it, you have to already be in a position to want it. Suffering from depression gets harder to cure as the person slowly falls into it more, precisely because they cant be bothered to get out of it. So paradoxically the person who needs Magick (CBT), never actually 'gets' it or uses it.

Cracking apart the previous map to paint outside the edges in childish crayola pastel, only to laugh in dazzlement at how badly you really did paint outside the last picture or map.


I think it greatly depends on the work and the changes you wish to make.

Magic or CBT seem less useful when dealing with situations like extreme depression or some psychological disorder... but they seem very useful in modifying aspects of an existing system. That is, let's say that a person has a real problem with constantly being late, constantly having problems standing up for themselves or perhaps they're having a hard time getting past some Dogma that was instilled in their head as a youth. It's this level of thing that magic seems most useful for. If you imagine demons and angels as aspects of our personality or consciousness, then magic is simply forcing those demons and angels to do our Will, and to utterly destroy those demons that won't comply.

Play with metaphor as you wish ;-)