Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 06:51:03 pm

Title: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 06:51:03 pm
I’ve been thinking about a couple of recent points of view that have been expressed here in the last few months, and their relation to what - if anything - we hope to accomplish.

Cramulus has given off the impression - which may or may not be correct - that his principle motivation is to attract a progressively larger audience, regardless of who they may be (ie, pinealists, “kaos magickians”, etc) for his and other peoples’ writing.

Nigel, on the other hand, has expressed disdain for anyone playing to an audience (By means of Cram’s preferred audience expansion, or simply by where rants are placed).

Both views have their merits, and both views have serious flaws.  I’d like to go into those merits and flaws as a lead-in to what I feel is a rather important point.

First, the Cram approach...The merits are obvious.  A larger audience means a greater dissemination of your ideas.  The problem with this is that Cram also prefers the Kopyleft approach, which allows the “telephone game” problem to creep in...By the time it’s been passed through three or four iterations, it won’t resemble what you’ve written at all, and may in fact be co-opted for something you find counterproductive and/or odious.  Worse, your name may still be on it after the Aryan Brotherhood - for one example - has been at it, which will cause you credibility problems to one degree or another.

The other main flaw with Cram’s approach is that you start thinking of yourself as either an entertainer with fans, or a guru with groupies.  It leads to posting as a form of ego, rather than as a means to an actual end.

Second, Nigel’s concerns have their validity, as given above.  If it’s about your ego rather than the ideas you’re trying to push, then perhaps some re-prioritizing is in order.

However, if you aren’t trying to reach people, then what the hell ARE you doing?  I mean, the stories I’ve written for the last year or so haven’t exactly been aimed at changing the world, but a lot of the other stuff that has been written - by many people - sits gathering dust in BIP or OKM, instead of being placed where it can do any good...And by that I mean “outside of this community”.

Because if we’re only writing for each other, then we’re just wasting our time preaching to the choir...And the times are too ticklish to allow that to happen.

There’s a strange world out there, and it’s our job as Discordians to keep it that way.  I mean, you haven’t been drafted or anything, but who else is going to do it?  The Pagans are all obsessed with out-Paganing each other, the Pastafarians have become bitter reclusive atheists, the “transhumans” are just Goths who wear the future as an accessory, like that stupid fucking dog Paris Hilton used to cart around...We’re on our own, at least as far as we’ve seen.

Of course, we’ve sort of tried evangelizing with a ball peen hammer over the last 6 years or so.  We’ve pushed Discordianism at other boards, and never once have we learned from our mistake.

And that mistake is ego.  We weren’t pushing ideas, we were pushing ourselves.  We have fucked up mightily, and wasted the better part of a decade in wrong-headed, counter-productive crank-yanking.  And while it WAS a lot of fun, it didn’t accomplish anything more than giving us a king-sized superiority complex (Actually, we ARE superior to many of them, but realizing that has been harmful as hell).

What we have to ask ourselves now is What - if anything - are we trying to accomplish, here?  I know what my goals are, but I’ve been so busy hollering about them that I haven’t listened to what any of your goals are...And I suspect that I am not alone in this.

So, I tell you what.  I’m going to clearly state my goals, and then I’m going to ask you to state yours, if you have any (And not everyone does, after all...To some, this is just a rather interesting social group).  Then we can discuss where these goals meet, and what we can do to accomplish them, having learned from past mistakes.  You know, like a biped ought to do.

My goals are very simple, and very few.  In order of importance, they are:

1.  Maximize freedom in all forms.  If you aren’t free, then nothing else matters.

2.  Learn to see things as they really are, not as how Roger wants them to be, and encourage others to do the same.

3.  Keep the world strange.  Make it stranger, if possible. 

4.  Have fun, and try to foster an environment that will allow our descendants to have fun, too.

Let’s hear yours, and then we’ll have a chat about what we can do next.  This also gives anyone not interested in activism - or seldom interested - a chance to say so.  And that’s perfectly okay.  Saying so will help us understand who NOT to bother with this sort of thing.

Or Kill Me.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Adios on January 26, 2011, 06:58:36 pm
1) To be free.

2) To point to others what freedom is and why we are losing it.

Mine are pretty simple as you can see. I used to think the world could be changed. I am usually pretty careful about who I invite here, if I invite someone it is because I think they will become an operating part of this community, not just an audience.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 07:02:38 pm
1) To be free.

2) To point to others what freedom is and why we are losing it.

Mine are pretty simple as you can see. I used to think the world could be changed. I am usually pretty careful about who I invite here, if I invite someone it is because I think they will become an operating part of this community, not just an audience.



If it can't be changed, then we're fucked anyway, so we may as well try.  I'm going to give about 24 hours for responses before I continue (though by all means, responses after that are welcome and I'll do my best to back them into what I want to say next).
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Adios on January 26, 2011, 07:06:50 pm
1) To be free.

2) To point to others what freedom is and why we are losing it.

Mine are pretty simple as you can see. I used to think the world could be changed. I am usually pretty careful about who I invite here, if I invite someone it is because I think they will become an operating part of this community, not just an audience.



If it can't be changed, then we're fucked anyway, so we may as well try.  I'm going to give about 24 hours for responses before I continue (though by all means, responses after that are welcome and I'll do my best to back them into what I want to say next).

I understand what you are saying. Allow me to rephrase. I used to think groups of people could be changed, thus changing the world. Now I realize that it is a one person at a time process.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on January 26, 2011, 07:08:52 pm
I'm pretty much a soloist.

I agree with Roger's 4-point plan, but in a much more personal way.  For the majority of my day or even week, I'm fairly socially insulated.  So I use the 4-points to help myself through my life, and live in a way that brings me happiness, or at least comfort; but this rarely involves deliberately and explicitly spreading Discordian ideas in thier purest form.

I choose to spread the word through example... that is, instead of hollering at people about how stupid Aristotelean Absolutism is, I show them in the way I behave.  The people I meet don't want to be preached to, and don't like being deliberately confused.  But they do notice that I'm having fun, and eventually, if they're lucky, bits an pieces of ideas are absorbed through osmosis.

I use discordian ideas in my writing, and in my music, and in how act and react to the world around me.  I hope that people who encounter these things notice and think about them.  That's the best I can hope for, realistically.

My goals, then, are to remain happy, and not be broken by the world.  I use Discordia to help me in these goals.  I'll speak to it if directly asked, but I'm not the evangelizing sort.  I realize this makes me fairly selfish, and not that useful as a carrier.  I gladly create content, but I'm not that great about spreading it.


Not sure if that's the kind of response you're looking for, Rog.  If it's disappointing, I apologize.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 26, 2011, 07:09:54 pm
Hmm... thought provoking, good post Roger.

What exactly AM I trying to do, anyway?  I'm not sure I've ever stopped to think about it, which could be a problem.

If I had to collect my aims (and since that's what we're doing here, I suppose I shall), they would be as follows:


1)  Alert people to the fact that their own personal reality is largely their own creation, so they might as well have fun with it.

2)  Get people to realize that the laws and rules of their society are not Objective Laws of the Universe, but rules created by them and their people, and therefor challengable.

3)  Pointing out to people that ONE view of the world is limiting, being able to cultivate multiple views of the world, even views usually despicable to your "normal" self, is a helpful tool in dealing with anything.

4)  To get people to really understand the Law of Fives, not just nod and say "yes, everyone knows that." Because YES< everyone does fucking know it, but almost everyone ACTS as though they don't.

5)  Make people laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 26, 2011, 07:11:18 pm
I'm pretty much a soloist.

I agree with Roger's 4-point plan, but in a much more personal way.  For the majority of my day or even week, I'm fairly socially insulated.  So I use the 4-points to help myself through my life, and live in a way that brings me happiness, or at least comfort; but this rarely involves deliberately and explicitly spreading Discordian ideas in thier purest form.

I choose to spread the word through example... that is, instead of hollering at people about how stupid Aristotelean Absolutism is, I show them in the way I behave.  The people I meet don't want to be preached to, and don't like being deliberately confused.  But they do notice that I'm having fun, and eventually, if they're lucky, bits an pieces of ideas are absorbed through osmosis.

I use discordian ideas in my writing, and in my music, and in how act and react to the world around me.  I hope that people who encounter these things notice and think about them.  That's the best I can hope for, realistically.

My goals, then, are to remain happy, and not be broken by the world.  I use Discordia to help me in these goals.  I'll speak to it if directly asked, but I'm not the evangelizing sort.  I realize this makes me fairly selfish, and not that useful as a carrier.  I gladly create content, but I'm not that great about spreading it.


Not sure if that's the kind of response you're looking for, Rog.  If it's disappointing, I apologize.




I like it, and I personally don't see it as selfish at all.

Those who are curious will seek.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: AFK on January 26, 2011, 07:15:46 pm
I don't have the time on my hands like I did when I first joined this community.  Back then, I worked the Retail Hell shifts and only had one small child.  So when I did the night shift, I'd have an entire morning to do stuff.  

Now, I'm in 8-5 world, 2 kids, 2 cats, and a wife who enjoys fine crafted spice racks.  I just don't have the time to get involved in projects anymore.  I barely have time to create content.  That only happens when I'm in a particular mood.

However, for awhile, I've been doing my best to incorporate BIP/PD ideals and philosophies into my work.  I try to live by example both for the kids I work with, as well as my fellow professionals.  I try to convey the importance of TFY,S and being able to see all of the Paths.  

So, honestly, my goals for being here at this point are primarily social.  It helps to still have some immersion into this community to keep me grounded while the surrounding world churns on.  I guess, it's sort of an online refuge from all of the IRL horrormirth.  
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 07:16:14 pm
I'm kinda looking for a bit of direction myself, and have on some occasions asked myself what is the purpose of me being a Discordian. The easiest answer, of course, looks something like this:

1. Try to get people (including myself) to think more about things (become "Enlightened", see things from a different perspective, whatever).
2. When number 1 fails, to at least have fun trying.

add to this, recently,

3. Try to change the political and cultural climate a little by taking some of the stupid out of it (see item 1), even if it's only one person.

Number 2 was fairly important when I EggGASMed a party. I got other people in on it, and they did it for fun. The people who found eggs didn't know what the hell was going on, and found some of the memebombs confusing or pointless, without really thinking about them. They found one entertaining, but it taught me something pretty quickly. Some people are always going to be cabbages. But, it was just as fun to see them looking confused as it would have been for them to get into some sort of discussion about the messages inside. On the other hand, I find that people are generally pretty receptive to Pope cards. Perhaps because there are a lot of Catholics here and the idea of being a Pope is at the very least entertaining.

One question I keep coming back to, is "am I trying to make more Discordians?" And I don't have a really good answer for that. You could say yes in that everyone is a latent Discordian, and you could say, no, people find that sort of thing ridiculous/geeky/whatever. One of my inclinations with CDGASM is to disseminate Discordian ideas without Discordian packaging, but maybe with some clues for the listener to get back here if they followed them enough. Otherwise it feels like proselytizing. Plus it gives them a journey. But by the same token, without some sort of Discordian packaging it might come across as something that it's not, like some sort of extended rant from an anarchist group, or some sort of bored art students, or a bunch of wannabe hippies. And that sort of impression is something that will turn a lot of people off.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 07:16:14 pm
Not sure if that's the kind of response you're looking for, Rog.  If it's disappointing, I apologize.

It's precisely the sort of response I was looking for:  An honest, up-front one.

Not everyone agrees with my ideas of what Discordianism's purpose is - if it has one - and I'm just looking for a consensus.  If it turns out that PD isn't the best place to launch shennanigans out of, on a more serious level, those of us who are interested can form a different group off to the side (ie, another website) for our purposes, for anyone who is interested1.


1  For anyone who is interested not "for those we deem worthy of our sooper-elite board".
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Jenne on January 26, 2011, 07:22:45 pm
I...don't have an agenda.  I move about the universe just trying to keep my head above water.  My sinking means a whole family tanking...beyond just my household.  So I forge ahead, whatever that means.

But the culture of this place is now in my bones, rather than the other way around, if that makes any sense?  My proselytization is definitely done in a sleeper fashion--I find myself (and I shared this before in an OKM rant) how in the midst of a conversation with any given person around me I'm all of a sudden exploiting some precepts of something I've read here or discussed here. 

I witness to the testimony of this board DESPITE myself, almost.  So my efforts are not terribly overt.  But I roost here to get...I dunno...a sense of community that I once got elsewhere online?  And I found some very cool dudes and dudettes.  I care about everyone here.  So what you think and say and do is terribly interesting.  Enough so that I feel in cahoots even when I'm not.

And then I feel like a silly old fat hen and go away when shit gets real.  Either on here or IRL.  Because sometimes I *am* a silly old fat hen.  :lulz:

But I can't perform to any level that's expected--real life does that to me already.  So here, I study, I guess, or participate lightly for entertainment, and hopefully my contributions, though not ground-breaking, at least form some sort of usable content...
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 07:22:53 pm
I'm seeing some interesting stuff here, and I'll strain out the responses (verbatim as much as possible) into bullet points.

Incidentally, being busy with day to day life isn't an obstacle.  Nobody's asking anyone to quit their jobs and take up ranting on the street corner, or postering up the break room at work.

One possible goal of this would be to find ways to help LMNO and RHWN - for example - affect those around them without keeping them up all night, breaking the bank, or getting them fired.

There's some creative bastards at this site, and what I'm looking for is new and feasible ways for us to effect the world around us, within the capabilities and time constraints we are under.  Not looking for insurrection, here, but rather direction for my efforts, and the efforts of anyone who wants to join in.

The world's circling the bowl.  We can enjoy the ride, hooting and giggling on the way down, or we can try to make things better, or a combination of the two...But we don't have a whole lot of time - in the grand scheme of things - to fart around making up our minds.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Adios on January 26, 2011, 07:28:33 pm
There are few things I enjoy more than the peak of creativity that so often follows a board melt-down.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Whatever on January 26, 2011, 07:29:48 pm
My main goal is to make people think to make them ask questions and for me to have fun while doing it.

I feel that the majority blindly accept what is said/done to them without even questioning the why or wherefore behind it.  My topics of focus change with current events on a lot of things, but there are a few core things.  Freedom, the importance of having fun, the seriousness of personal responsibility for one's actions.....

If I can make 10 people start to question, then how many people will they influence?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 07:31:15 pm
There are few things I enjoy more than the peak of creativity that so often follows a board melt-down.

Likewise
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on January 26, 2011, 07:34:18 pm
In addition to everything written so far:

1)  Let's not be shitheads to each other, and endeavor to treat each other right good forever.
2)  Except for those who deserve it.
3)  Form more cabals, as it's easier to apply #1 between like-minds
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 07:46:58 pm
Another question I keep asking myself is, how useful is the internet to us (other than to collaborate with each other and foster a sense of community), and if it has uses for us, what is the best way to go about it? In theory it's a good medium to find new ideas and spread new ideas, but there's so much noise out there. We could try and introduce a meme, but is that going to become something distorted and annoying (kinda like the drawbacks Roger points out with Kopyleft)? We could troll, and we get some good members here that way, but trolls always awaken a defense response, creating more unproductive noise. More people prefer a more subtle approach, as LMNO pointed out. Maybe this is a side topic, and if so we can pick up in it elsewhere, but the thread made me think about it.

Well, that and I was looking at "The Art of Trolling" on the Cheezburger network and started wondering what the hell is the point after reading troll after troll based on "I own a horse."
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cuddlefish on January 26, 2011, 07:51:13 pm
Great OP. I can totally get down with Rog's 4-point plan (and Hoops' 5-pointer), and I'm sure that I would be down to share in some others' goals, like both Cram and Nigel, as well as a handful of others. But, this question made me realize that I hadn't ever really thought about it in a way that made any solid sense, so, I guess what's below is the best way I have of wording it at the time.

For me, PD.com and Discord in general holds multiple functions, each with a different set of goals. On a simpler level, this site is both my primary news site and my primary social site, among other things. The goals concerning these functions are appropriately simple: I'm here for the news and the lulz.

On a less simpler level, this site, for me is like going to a school that I really enjoy going to. The goals of this function are to learn as much as possible from others in a range of topics, and to help teach if I can, in whichever way I can. More so, this is a great place to "test your skills," whatever they may be. It's a place where you can go for a really unbiased "pier review," so to speak. This site is the number one place I go to for real, honest-to-goddess constructive criticism. In general, this level is about sharpening the tools. And, as they do, one tool sharpens the other, and there are plenty of tools here  :wink:

However, there is a whole other level of functions that Discord has for me, and this is the toughest one for me to explain, because I understand it the least. Discordianism has taken up the slot I had previously reserved for "religious," "Spiritual," or other "faith" based activities and thoughts. This is a strange thing for me, because up until recently, things in this slot were usually "mahdjikal" in one way or another. Or, the slot was left unfilled, which led to being over nihilistic to a point of despair. So, to have something like Discord fill this slot, well, it can get confusing. But, from what I can tell from here, for now, the goals I have for this level are based on everything above. I want to gather as much information as possible, and propagate as much information as possible, with all my good pals from the interbutts and IRL, and I will do so as if it were my "religious duty," if any of that makes any sense. In this, for me, there is an inherent trend towards a type of "evangelicalism," but if you take it LMNO's way, a lot of that is result of example, as opposed to "preaching," so to speak.

I hope this made sense...
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 07:52:21 pm
Another question I keep asking myself is, how useful is the internet to us (other than to collaborate with each other and foster a sense of community), and if it has uses for us, what is the best way to go about it? In theory it's a good medium to find new ideas and spread new ideas, but there's so much noise out there. We could try and introduce a meme, but is that going to become something distorted and annoying (kinda like the drawbacks Roger points out with Kopyleft)? We could troll, and we get some good members here that way, but trolls always awaken a defense response, creating more unproductive noise. More people prefer a more subtle approach, as LMNO pointed out. Maybe this is a side topic, and if so we can pick up in it elsewhere, but the thread made me think about it.

Well, that and I was looking at "The Art of Trolling" on the Cheezburger network and started wondering what the hell is the point after reading troll after troll based on "I own a horse."

Well, let's not get the cart before the horse.  Let's see if we can agree on objectives first, then we can discuss the means.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on January 26, 2011, 07:54:33 pm
Cuddlefish, in the spirit of your post, especially the third paragraph, it's "peer review", not "pier review"... unless you're going to take a long walk while reviewing a short one.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Requia ☣ on January 26, 2011, 07:55:06 pm
My goals are much the same as yours Roger, though my focus is on the second point.

Not that I've managed to contribute much.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 26, 2011, 07:56:05 pm
I don't think I really have any objectives, so to speak. It would be nice to spread ideas around to other people, but I don't know how to accomplish this.

I come here for news, to socialize with people who aren't complete morons, and to get ideas for things to do, and also as a toilet for whatever I feel like writing.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 07:56:40 pm
My goals are much the same as yours Roger, though my focus is on the second point.

Not that I've managed to contribute much.

Then it's time for that to change, no?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cuddlefish on January 26, 2011, 07:57:00 pm
Cuddlefish, in the spirit of your post, especially the third paragraph, it's "peer review", not "pier review"... unless you're going to take a long walk while reviewing a short one.

 :lulz: :lulz:

I'll leave it as it is as a constant reminder to check my spell-check.

I'm not mad, though. You pointing that out to me shows you care  :wink:
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 07:59:11 pm
I don't think I really have any objectives, so to speak. It would be nice to spread ideas around to other people, but I don't know how to accomplish this.

Goals first, methodology later, Fracture.  I have some ideas, and so - I suspect - do others.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Requia ☣ on January 26, 2011, 08:05:05 pm
My goals are much the same as yours Roger, though my focus is on the second point.

Not that I've managed to contribute much.

Then it's time for that to change, no?

Yes, we'll talk more when you get to methods I think.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 08:07:21 pm
My goals are much the same as yours Roger, though my focus is on the second point.

Not that I've managed to contribute much.

Then it's time for that to change, no?

Yes, we'll talk more when you get to methods I think.

Sure.  Tomorrow night, I'm going to boil the listed goals down to their essentials, and ask if everyone is happy with them (some may be merged, etc).  Then I'm going to follow up with a framework for setting up ways to actually work toward some of these goals.  Just a framework, mind you.  This has to be a group effort, or there's no point, so I expect that people other than myself will be doing a lot of the ACTUAL methodology.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 08:10:04 pm
Another question I keep asking myself is, how useful is the internet to us (other than to collaborate with each other and foster a sense of community), and if it has uses for us, what is the best way to go about it? In theory it's a good medium to find new ideas and spread new ideas, but there's so much noise out there. We could try and introduce a meme, but is that going to become something distorted and annoying (kinda like the drawbacks Roger points out with Kopyleft)? We could troll, and we get some good members here that way, but trolls always awaken a defense response, creating more unproductive noise. More people prefer a more subtle approach, as LMNO pointed out. Maybe this is a side topic, and if so we can pick up in it elsewhere, but the thread made me think about it.

Well, that and I was looking at "The Art of Trolling" on the Cheezburger network and started wondering what the hell is the point after reading troll after troll based on "I own a horse."

Well, let's not get the cart before the horse.  Let's see if we can agree on objectives first, then we can discuss the means.

Good point, will wait on this.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 08:31:16 pm
It's hard for me to decide whether to ignore this thread or tear it apart. :horrormirth: It pretty thoroughly represents everything that I'm against.

I'm Cramulus' nemesis for a reason. I resent any attempt to "bring us together" or find a common agenda outside of the spontaneous trolling zeitgeist that happens periodically on its own when a bunch of people think collaboration sounds fun.

The thing is, following is easy. Once an agenda is decided, people feel free to turn off their critical thinking and just go with the program. I've spent my entire life fucking with what people think they know, with only one goal in mind; to make people think. Whether they like it or not. So I can't participate in any agenda that sets an agenda other than my own, which I won't tell you.

All of us, regardless of race or income, fall into the category of bored middle-class white people. The luxury of agreeing on an agenda, the luxury of HAVING an agenda, on the Internet no less, is the domain of bored middle-class white people.

Bored middle-class white people who have agreed on an agenda are the most dangerous animal on the planet.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 08:33:06 pm
The thing is, following is easy. Once an agenda is decided, people feel free to turn off their critical thinking and just go with the program.

That's actually something I'm trying very hard to avoid.  This is why I am discussing setting up a framework for people to work in, not another GASM.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 08:39:40 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 08:46:41 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 26, 2011, 08:59:37 pm
I came into Discordia after a 25 year prison sentence... or 25 years of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses... I don't exactly recall which ;-)

I was convinced that humans were 6000ish years old, that evolution was a crock of shit, that Jehovah was God, that about 6 million or so of us were gonna survive the End and that I would never die and instead live forever perfectly. I proselytized, I taught people The Truth (no kidding, that's what JW's call their belief system) I converted whole families to a religion that I now find completely useless... and sadly those families are still involved, their lives are still affected while I've moved on.

When I stumbled into Eris it was like an explosion in my head, I know it sounds corny and trite but my first read of the PD changed my perceptions more than any single thing I have ever encountered. When I later ran into all the other 'Discordianish' books (the ones I occasionally rant about), I began to process data about me. I mean seriously, the first 25 years of my life and I had never really been at all self-reflective. I never needed to... I knew the Truth, that was all there was to it.

Its taken nearly a decade to decide that for me, Discordianism isn't about what I am gonna do to the world... but about what I am gonna do to me. I do pranks, I pull off jokes and jakes and stage silly events... but I do them entirely for me. If someone else is inspired by what I'm doing that's cool... if someone engages me in something philosophical I'll share my ideas... but I write for me, I prank for me, I'm a Discordian for me.

I hang out here for me, because when I hang out in other "Discordian" forums, its an echo chamber. Here I have to reflect on my interactions with you asshats  :D

Even though I sometimes violently disagree with TGRR or RWHN or any of you other freaks... I find that I tend to reflect later on how I acted, how I screwed up the conversation... or how I made some assumption that was unwarranted.

I don't think Discordia will change the world, I doubt she'd want to anyway. The whole fucking place seem like her kind of party. I don't think memes and jakes and trolling Tea Party sites will make any difference whatsoever... except maybe give a couple of the real foaming mouths a better chance of heart attack.  :lulz:

Its taken me awhile to come to this conclusion... when I first started with Discordianism I simply replaced the old JW lines with the new PD lines and acted just as I had in the past. If the search function worked, you could find evidence of that here, even years after Eris blessed me.

It would be awesome if mankind were free, but I'm still trying to free myself.

Quote
And when men become free then mankind will be free.
May you be free of The Curse of Greyface.
May the Goddess put twinkles in your eyes.
May you have the knowledge of a sage,
     and the wisdom of a child. Hail Eris.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 09:03:46 pm
I don't think Discordia will change the world, I doubt she'd want to anyway. The whole fucking place seem like her kind of party. I don't think memes and jakes and trolling Tea Party sites will make any difference whatsoever... except maybe give a couple of the real foaming mouths a better chance of heart attack.  :lulz:

Well, I'm going to try.  I have to have SOMETHING to do between now and when I die of old age.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 26, 2011, 09:09:57 pm
I don't think Discordia will change the world, I doubt she'd want to anyway. The whole fucking place seem like her kind of party. I don't think memes and jakes and trolling Tea Party sites will make any difference whatsoever... except maybe give a couple of the real foaming mouths a better chance of heart attack.  :lulz:

Well, I'm going to try.  I have to have SOMETHING to do between now and when I die of old age.

Heel yeah, and good luck with it! Its just not what I am doing...

Maybe once I get old...  :wink:

j/k
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cain on January 26, 2011, 09:15:11 pm
I'm here to keep myself sane while pursuing the more personally relevant objects of

a) getting paid, and
b) [figuring out a bunch of stuff which will aid in achieving a) while allowing me to do things I find much more interesting than telling kids how to add their numbers up]

Unfortunately, that leaves very little time for anything else, especially in the case of b), which is such an expansive and research intensive undertaking it could easily take a decade before it bears any real fruit.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 09:19:32 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 09:23:20 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

That's fine. My agenda is different from yours, so don't mind if I don't follow it.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on January 26, 2011, 09:23:49 pm
My goals are:

1. To make the most of myself, to be able to live up to my ideals.

2. To try and get people to care. Even if they don't agree with me, I'm okay with it. I'll take one of the raving crazies over someone who's apathetic any day.

3. To make the world as strange and fun as I can.

4. To have fun.

Personally, I'd like to contribute more to this site, though in what form I'm not entirely sure yet.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 09:27:03 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

That's fine. My agenda is different from yours, so don't mind if I don't follow it.

Is there a reason you think I would care?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 09:27:28 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

Okay.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 09:30:31 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

That's fine. My agenda is different from yours, so don't mind if I don't follow it.

Is there a reason you think I would care?

No. I'm just pointing out that just because you're not interested in this doesn't mean some of us aren't.
You think for yourself, I'll think for myself. That's kinda one of the points of all of this, or so I thought.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: AFK on January 26, 2011, 09:30:57 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

So, if we end up doing something that you don't want to do.  Don't do it.  There is no prerequisite, nor has their ever been one, to be part of this community AND participate in any projects or activities.  It's always been the case, and it's always been recognized that some people come here just to hang.  I don't think anyone has any problem with that.  But, nor should the people here to just hang have a problem if some of us do get together to work on projects.  Both can co-exist here.  They have for as long as I've been on this board.  
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 09:41:46 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

So, if we end up doing something that you don't want to do.  Don't do it.  There is no prerequisite, nor has their ever been one, to be part of this community AND participate in any projects or activities.  It's always been the case, and it's always been recognized that some people come here just to hang.  I don't think anyone has any problem with that.  But, nor should the people here to just hang have a problem if some of us do get together to work on projects.  Both can co-exist here.  They have for as long as I've been on this board.  

Right.

And this thread asked for opinions and input, so I gave mine. Sorry it doesn't go along with the majority.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 09:44:04 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

That's fine. My agenda is different from yours, so don't mind if I don't follow it.

Is there a reason you think I would care?

No. I'm just pointing out that just because you're not interested in this doesn't mean some of us aren't.
You think for yourself, I'll think for myself. That's kinda one of the points of all of this, or so I thought.

Yep. And unless your agenda directly involves me, there's no particular reason for me to give a shit. Since you made a point of telling me about it, I thought there might be a reason you would think I'd care.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on January 26, 2011, 09:47:21 pm
Quote
And this thread asked for opinions and input, so I gave mine. Sorry it doesn't go along with the majority.

You gave your opinion. And it was disagreed with. It wasn't an attack against you, they just held a different opinion. If you don't want to contribute to this, that's okay. Then don't. Nothing wrong with that.

But if we want to contribute, that's our decision.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 26, 2011, 09:48:32 pm
Thread is now about Nigel.  Mission Accomplished.

Uh, you mentioned me in the OP and then asked for input. Is there a particular reason I should have assumed that specifically meant everyone else's input, but not mine? Or maybe that you meant you wanted only input that was in agreement with you?

I'm not telling anyone what to do or not do, I'm expressing the same thing I've always expressed when this topic comes up. Because dude, you asked.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 26, 2011, 09:49:41 pm
If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

The goal is to define what each individual involved has for an agenda, and set up a framework to help each other work towards those agendas.

Things are a little too robust, in a bad way, for an individual to make any measurable difference, these days.  Like one filthy old pervert once said, "Either we hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

That's fine. My agenda is different from yours, so don't mind if I don't follow it.

Is there a reason you think I would care?

No. I'm just pointing out that just because you're not interested in this doesn't mean some of us aren't.
You think for yourself, I'll think for myself. That's kinda one of the points of all of this, or so I thought.

Yep. And unless your agenda directly involves me, there's no particular reason for me to give a shit. Since you made a point of telling me about it, I thought there might be a reason you would think I'd care.

No. Just thought that needed pointing out. I think that's all we have to say to each other on the subject, and I'll go back to seeing whose agendas have commonalities, rather than differences, to mine.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on January 26, 2011, 10:03:47 pm
I'm not interested in changing people's minds.  If anyone is either half as stubborn as I am, and I was 10x more so before I got hooked on chaos, they will immediately shut down anyone overtly attempting to sway their opinions.  And let's face it, in a world where they're being assaulted from every angle to believe in this or support that, most of which are misguided at best and insidious at worst, it's probably a good thing.  Not to mention, I have no desire to give anyone an alternative to their current thoughts - I don't want that responsibility.

Instead, I'd like to convince people not to change their minds, but that their minds are capable of being changed.  I don't want to shatter anyone's world view or cripple anyone's outlook.  I'd like to lay the foundation where a slightly less retarded idea can be built, and as soon as that one's done another foundation for an even less retarded one.  Maybe by then they can keep the process going on their own and work on doing the same to another.

I guess what I'd like to figure out is how to get someone to realize that they can continuously shape their filters to more accurately reflect reality.  A single voice dissenting, and dissenting to the extent that many of us do, sounds like a crazy person.  A myriad of voices, a series of weird events, are more likely to accomplish something.

That's the idealistic discordian in me.  The other part wants to inflict the very worst of things upon the great majority of people, who I dislike on an extreme level.

I would say those two disparate motiviations are what get me to do anything Discordian related.  I would not call them goals because I don't think they're measurable, and I don't like the imagery associated with a goal as linear.  Discordian action ought to look akin to the chaos star, right down to having the arrows being various sizes.  More efforts in some areas and with more people than others.

The thing about intentionally building a Discordian movement is that it's subject to break down like anything else, but given the individuals involved that breakdown tends to be particularly bad.  It's why I also don't think we should have a clear policy on what we should and shouldn't do with n00bs - intentional communities are inhibited.

ETA:  OH good I just typed all this shit out and it's another thread about Nigel being a twunt and everyone responding to it.  Big fucking surprise.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Reeducation on January 26, 2011, 10:11:30 pm
Great topic! :)

My goals are:

1. To stay alive and sane. It gets harder to keep your sanity everyday. It's a fucked up world.
2. To BE there for my daughter when things get rough.
3. FREEDOM.
4. I'm going to live my life as I want to (too long thing to explain really) and if someone asks "how did you get THAT stupid idea?", I will answer something like " lolo23! Eris made me do it! Run! Run!". They will figure out the rest, if they have the ThinkForYourself-seed in their brains.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 26, 2011, 10:15:35 pm
For the record, here are my three horribly offensive posts ITT that were, apparently, not expressing an opinion, but a twunty grab for attention. Glad I was able to provide a suitable target for today's dogpile. Fuck you.

It's hard for me to decide whether to ignore this thread or tear it apart. :horrormirth: It pretty thoroughly represents everything that I'm against.

I'm Cramulus' nemesis for a reason. I resent any attempt to "bring us together" or find a common agenda outside of the spontaneous trolling zeitgeist that happens periodically on its own when a bunch of people think collaboration sounds fun.

The thing is, following is easy. Once an agenda is decided, people feel free to turn off their critical thinking and just go with the program. I've spent my entire life fucking with what people think they know, with only one goal in mind; to make people think. Whether they like it or not. So I can't participate in any agenda that sets an agenda other than my own, which I won't tell you.

All of us, regardless of race or income, fall into the category of bored middle-class white people. The luxury of agreeing on an agenda, the luxury of HAVING an agenda, on the Internet no less, is the domain of bored middle-class white people.

Bored middle-class white people who have agreed on an agenda are the most dangerous animal on the planet.

If not to agree on an agenda, what is the goal?

Well, my agenda is that I'm against it.

I'm fairly certain nobody had anything at all against those three posts, it was the cuntery that followed it, and please don't insult the intelligence of every poster on this board by pretending you weren't making a big stink on purpose.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on January 26, 2011, 10:17:43 pm
Uh, the thread got split. Fight moved elsewhere.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 26, 2011, 10:19:56 pm
Oopsie.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on January 26, 2011, 10:20:25 pm
No worries.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Bella on January 26, 2011, 10:31:07 pm
Going back to Rog's original post:


I find myself diametrically opposed to the idea of getting on board any organized, deliberate, common agenda. Don't care if other people do so, as long as they respect that I can't do it.

However, I like the idea of a framework to help board members with their individual ideas and projects...provided there's no pressure either way.  


As for my own agenda...Liam and I plan to take over the world.



Edited to add:  Oops! I spoke too soon. I plan to take over the world.

Liam, on the other hand, just informed me that all he is wants to blow up huge chunks of it and have the rest of it closely monitored by closed tv circuits and robot drones. He also says he agrees with Nigel. Everyone getting together for a common agenda is how lynch mobs start.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Precious Moments Zalgo on January 26, 2011, 10:36:23 pm
My goals are to free my own mind as much as possible so that I can see things as they really are, not filtered to conform to some worldview.  I'd like to help others do the same, but it seems to me that most people will defend their worldview as if they were defending their very life.  I don't believe anyone can be helped in this unless they already want it.

I get a lot out of the rants on this site.  They help me to open up my eyes and make me think..
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on January 26, 2011, 10:55:35 pm
My goals:

1. Give and get critical feedback from those I disagree with, even if they make a stink. Sometimes, especially if they make a stink.
2. Improve my ability to be humorous, satirical and otherwise funny. I'm inherently a very serious person, and the atmosphere here helps me balance that out without losing sight of hard realities.
3. Collaborate with other spags on projects designed to engage the public in critical and imaginative thought.
4. Collaborate with other spags on projects designed to reach other asshats out there that would be a welcome addition to this community.
5. Keep my curiosity about the world burning white hot.
6. Keep learning about and evolving Discordian concepts until they become sentient and try to kill us all.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 11:01:51 pm
Going back to Rog's original post:


I find myself diametrically opposed to the idea of getting on board any organized, deliberate, common agenda. Don't care if other people do so, as long as they respect that I can't do it.

However, I like the idea of a framework to help board members with their individual ideas and projects...provided there's no pressure either way.  


As for my own agenda...Liam and I plan to take over the world.



Edited to add:  Oops! I spoke too soon. I plan to take over the world.

Liam, on the other hand, just informed me that all he is wants to blow up huge chunks of it and have the rest of it closely monitored by closed tv circuits and robot drones. He also says he agrees with Nigel. Everyone getting together for a common agenda is how lynch mobs start.


Except that we aren't getting together for a common agenda, necessarily.  I'm thinking of this as more of a co-op.  And I doubt we'll be running off to lynch anyone.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Salty on January 26, 2011, 11:10:51 pm
I am here because the majority of people refuse to let their minds settle and congeal into uselessness.
It's uncomfortable, but necessary for a decently functioning mind, to confront one's own brand of stupid. And you often get that here. Even if the hostility towards an idea is undeserved or misplaced it is worth it, it's always worth it to ensure the ideas your basing decisions off of have merit or value.

I like most of you horrible cunts because you're intelligent horrible cunts.

And that let's me know that the whole world isn't shit, just most of the people. And it's hard to find people who are worth the time and energy but they are out there and worth looking for.

Meanwhile, I like making people uncomfortably aware of the cost of their comforts.
I like making people laugh at the horrible things that happen every day. I would like to get better at doing these things and involving others who want to do the same.

The drama is the same as it was last year and the year before that and I just ignore it.

My goal is to be a part of and contribute to a community of people who think for themselves and MAKE and DO things in real life. I want to inspire and be inspired by that community.
And, you know, that's what I've been doing.
And so have others.

2010 was a shitty year for me personally, but I wrote and made some pamphlets, I postered like crazy, I put a great meme on display and got some laughs as well as some nasty, indignant looks. AND I met some new people who are going to help me unleash some PAIN on my town.
And others did way more, way awesome stuff. There is, I believe, a whole thread relating the awesome accomplishments of this board. And much of that is what people took upon themselves to do.

So....

THANK YOU, PD, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?!
       \
:fishhook:
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Bella on January 26, 2011, 11:15:40 pm
Going back to Rog's original post:


I find myself diametrically opposed to the idea of getting on board any organized, deliberate, common agenda. Don't care if other people do so, as long as they respect that I can't do it.

However, I like the idea of a framework to help board members with their individual ideas and projects...provided there's no pressure either way.  


As for my own agenda...Liam and I plan to take over the world.



Edited to add:  Oops! I spoke too soon. I plan to take over the world.

Liam, on the other hand, just informed me that all he is wants to blow up huge chunks of it and have the rest of it closely monitored by closed tv circuits and robot drones. He also says he agrees with Nigel. Everyone getting together for a common agenda is how lynch mobs start.


Except that we aren't getting together for a common agenda, necessarily.  I'm thinking of this as more of a co-op.  And I doubt we'll be running off to lynch anyone.

I can see myself in a cooperative venture. :)


Sometimes.


If I feel like it and no one expects it of me.




At least until I'm running the world.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cuddlefish on January 26, 2011, 11:18:32 pm
I think the point is being missed.

I didn't see this as an attempt to create an agenda. I saw it more as an attempt to share with each other what our individual agendas are and see where they overlap. In the case that they do overlap with someone elses, you have at least found a like-minded individual, if not a potential project partner, for whatever type "project" you got cooking, or whatever it is your doing in the first place. Though, I'm not surprised things got derailed. It's a Discordian forum, after all.

But, then again, what the hell do I know...
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Demolition_Squid on January 26, 2011, 11:44:46 pm
I've been thinking about this subject a lot, lately. When I was younger, I hoped that I would enter politics, campaign to turn back the oppressive and authoritarian aspects I saw in the world at that time, and generally help people have the freedom to think for themselves. I even wrote an essay about it shortly after I got turned on to Discordianism. It was for a competition hosted on POEE, 'What is a Discordian?' And I concluded with the idealistic notion that a discordian is someone who thinks for themselves, and hopes to make others think for themselves too. I found the book I won for that the other day, it made me smile. I really wish I still had a copy of that essay around somewhere.

I'm suffering from some low self-esteem these days, I guess. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know, and the less comfortable I feel writing anything at all. I'm constantly surprised by how quick I am to leap to conclusions and buy into my preconceived notions of things, though. Which leads me to wonder how much I actually 'think for myself'. If I can't even be sure I think for myself half the time, how can I hope to make others think for themselves?

What I want to do, Roger, is still the same as it was those years ago. I still WANT to think for myself, and help others think for themselves. I've got no idea how to go about doing this, though. I tried for a while, I never really accomplished anything, and I have this awful, gnawing feeling that I never will.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: the last yatto on January 26, 2011, 11:52:32 pm
Goals...
Short term: finish my. Anarchy intermitten issue
Long term: wompheads thread and starting a local social club
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 26, 2011, 11:56:48 pm
Going back to Rog's original post:


I find myself diametrically opposed to the idea of getting on board any organized, deliberate, common agenda. Don't care if other people do so, as long as they respect that I can't do it.

However, I like the idea of a framework to help board members with their individual ideas and projects...provided there's no pressure either way.  


As for my own agenda...Liam and I plan to take over the world.



Edited to add:  Oops! I spoke too soon. I plan to take over the world.

Liam, on the other hand, just informed me that all he is wants to blow up huge chunks of it and have the rest of it closely monitored by closed tv circuits and robot drones. He also says he agrees with Nigel. Everyone getting together for a common agenda is how lynch mobs start.


Except that we aren't getting together for a common agenda, necessarily.  I'm thinking of this as more of a co-op.  And I doubt we'll be running off to lynch anyone.

I can see myself in a cooperative venture. :)


Sometimes.


If I feel like it and no one expects it of me.




At least until I'm running the world.

I suppose that will do.   :lulz:

Dibs on "sneezing into the basket" when you take over.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on January 27, 2011, 01:36:32 am
I came into Discordia after a 25 year prison sentence... or 25 years of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses... I don't exactly recall which ;-)

I was convinced that humans were 6000ish years old, that evolution was a crock of shit, that Jehovah was God, that about 6 million or so of us were gonna survive the End and that I would never die and instead live forever perfectly. I proselytized, I taught people The Truth (no kidding, that's what JW's call their belief system) I converted whole families to a religion that I now find completely useless... and sadly those families are still involved, their lives are still affected while I've moved on.

When I stumbled into Eris it was like an explosion in my head, I know it sounds corny and trite but my first read of the PD changed my perceptions more than any single thing I have ever encountered. When I later ran into all the other 'Discordianish' books (the ones I occasionally rant about), I began to process data about me. I mean seriously, the first 25 years of my life and I had never really been at all self-reflective. I never needed to... I knew the Truth, that was all there was to it.

Its taken nearly a decade to decide that for me, Discordianism isn't about what I am gonna do to the world... but about what I am gonna do to me. I do pranks, I pull off jokes and jakes and stage silly events... but I do them entirely for me. If someone else is inspired by what I'm doing that's cool... if someone engages me in something philosophical I'll share my ideas... but I write for me, I prank for me, I'm a Discordian for me.

I hang out here for me, because when I hang out in other "Discordian" forums, its an echo chamber. Here I have to reflect on my interactions with you asshats  :D

Even though I sometimes violently disagree with TGRR or RWHN or any of you other freaks... I find that I tend to reflect later on how I acted, how I screwed up the conversation... or how I made some assumption that was unwarranted.

I don't think Discordia will change the world, I doubt she'd want to anyway. The whole fucking place seem like her kind of party. I don't think memes and jakes and trolling Tea Party sites will make any difference whatsoever... except maybe give a couple of the real foaming mouths a better chance of heart attack.  :lulz:

Its taken me awhile to come to this conclusion... when I first started with Discordianism I simply replaced the old JW lines with the new PD lines and acted just as I had in the past. If the search function worked, you could find evidence of that here, even years after Eris blessed me.

It would be awesome if mankind were free, but I'm still trying to free myself.

Quote
And when men become free then mankind will be free.
May you be free of The Curse of Greyface.
May the Goddess put twinkles in your eyes.
May you have the knowledge of a sage,
     and the wisdom of a child. Hail Eris.



Wow. I didn't expect that I would come into this discussion finding a post I completely agreed with. I was wrong.

Of course, my only goal, such as it is, is and always has been a selfish one. I simply want to learn anything and everything I can from this place.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Juana on January 27, 2011, 03:07:20 am
1. Learn. I learn a hell of a lot from you spags, and I love it.
2. Entertain myself and others.
3. Same sentiment regarding freedom as Roger
4. I'm still a bit of a revolutionary monkey. I want to leave things a bit better than I found them, which, imo, includes helping other people learn to think. I'm trying for it now as a tutor, and I *think* I may have found one way to do it when I'm actually teaching.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Don Coyote on January 27, 2011, 03:10:50 am
What am I doing?

I am here because some of you fucks seemed like smart fucks from whom I could converse with. I am just here and learning about this discowhatsit crap because it seems fun and life with out fun is fucking pointless.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 27, 2011, 02:12:04 pm
I'm liking these responses.  I'll scrub them into a list tonight, and present it back at everyone, so they can see if I missed or misrepresented anyone.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on January 27, 2011, 02:16:36 pm
I'd like steal from HoverCat and add 'Learning' to my list, because that's an awesome answer.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 27, 2011, 02:31:30 pm
I'd like steal from HoverCat and add 'Learning' to my list, because that's an awesome answer.

Ditto.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2011, 02:53:19 pm
I'm in it for the art. Art for art's sake. I made Videos a while back, BJ and scareyface and stuff with the mission to entertain. BJ wasn't intended to bring about the end of the christian church (although it would have made me laugh if it had) or even to deprogram one or two. It was me laughing at the situation and trying to spread that chuckle through art.

Art is reciprocal for me - I've always seen it that way. If it wasn't for people like me there'd be nothing beautiful or funny or awesome in the world and if that happened I'd feel compelled to burn it to the ground. It's pure self-indulgence. I want to be entertained and the price is to entertain back.

So this place? It entertains me. You guys entertain me. You're a bunch of smart motherfuckers and twisted funny with it. There's a serious side to the place too, that comes up from time to time, where a bunch of you might seem to take the world and the people in it a lot more seriously than I ever could and I tend to sit on the sidelines and watch the flames and sometimes it's funny and sometimes it depressing.

So here's my plan - I'ma keep doing what I'm doing which may be video one day, music the next and pictures the day after that. Or I might even find some new medium to explore. You think there's something cool I could help you with then ask me - worst I can do is say no.

Just because I don't feel compelled to change the world doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy doing it anyway, given the right set of circumstances. Just do me one favour - never demand that I take anything even remotely seriously and I'll return the favour by never demanding that you don't.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 27, 2011, 02:55:36 pm
I'm in it for the art. Art for art's sake. I made Videos a while back, BJ and scareyface and stuff with the mission to entertain. BJ wasn't intended to bring about the end of the christian church (although it would have made me laugh if it had) or even to deprogram one or two. It was me laughing at the situation and trying to spread that chuckle through art.

Art is reciprocal for me - I've always seen it that way. If it wasn't for people like me there'd be nothing beautiful or funny or awesome in the world and if that happened I'd feel compelled to burn it to the ground. It's pure self-indulgence. I want to be entertained and the price is to entertain back.

So this place? It entertains me. You guys entertain me. You're a bunch of smart motherfuckers and twisted funny with it. There's a serious side to the place too, that comes up from time to time, where a bunch of you might seem to take the world and the people in it a lot more seriously than I ever could and I tend to sit on the sidelines and watch the flames and sometimes it's funny and sometimes it depressing.

So here's my plan - I'ma keep doing what I'm doing which may be video one day, music the next and pictures the day after that. Or I might even find some new medium to explore. You think there's something cool I could help you with then ask me - worst I can do is say no.

Just because I don't feel compelled to change the world doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy doing it anyway, given the right set of circumstances. Just do me one favour - never demand that I take anything even remotely seriously and I'll return the favour by never demanding that you don't.

The whole idea is supposed to be fun.  After all, nobody's getting paid for this.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Planeswalker on January 27, 2011, 02:58:58 pm
I find a lot in this thread that reflects my thoughts in some form, only put into better words.

Still, I want to add my own...

Personally, why am I still lurking around here after what could well be three something years by now?
Discordianism and the words and actions of you all had a major and positive influence on the way I engaged in that ongoing project of self-development.
So point number one: knowledge / learning
I'm here for me, to add more perspectives to the ones I can come up with on various subjects, to gain perspectives on my perspectives. It's an ongoing learning process, an ongoing remodelling process.
At times I will fall flat on my face because I didn't watch where I put my feet, it will hurt but I always get up again. You are very good at making sure I notice when I lost focus or just did something outright stupid. I like that.
Change is the fuel which drives my life-engine. I wouldn't want it any other way.

As to what I am doing right now?
I can't sit idly by while I see the giant shitwave that humanity as a whole seems to become more and more, engulfing the entire planet. It may be too late, it may never work, but I don't like to look back and see that I didn't even gave it a shot. So I try to connect on- and offline with the remaining humans who like to think for themselves, and who realise how much outside tampering is being done on this through various mechanisms... and who might dare to do something about it.
Anyone with half a brain can create a cosy space within the system, only a few dare to throw sticks into the cogwheels though.

So point number two: creation
I'm here to bounce ideas back and forth. Take them apart, put them back together. Get involved in bigger things, for bigger impact or just plain more fun. Currently I'm preparing for a sailing trip to Iceland in summer. Details will emerge when the concept is ready for general tearing apart (and hopefully the core will be stable enough to survive it). When I have spare time I like to create music, which hopefully results in something I feel satisfied with soon. Creating alone is only have as fun as creating as a group though.

Which leads me to point number three: fun times
My taste in fun is often perceived as freaky and perverted by the average cabbage. Which kinda seems like an accurate description. A lot of people here are also into freaky fun things. So I come back for more.


So much for that. I have a few days off and will hitch-hike to another town now, see what and who I run into, then return.
Because I can. Whatever the fuck I want. =)
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cramulus on January 27, 2011, 04:21:43 pm
I had to wait a day before I posted ITT or I would have come in white hot. In the future, if you want my participation (as your PMs indicate), don't launch it with an insulting critique of my character.

More on topic....

I do most of my work in Kopyleft. This is because I want to share resources with others, (free ideas evolve faster than protected ideas) and I don't give a shit if the "wrong people" are inspired by it. You say that it's a big flaw in the Kopyleft method, that bad people (and maybe even one the Aryan Brotherhood!) will use my work. They'll transform it until it's unrecognizable. Well that's not happening, and even if it did, I don't care. I still want to share things with people. That's my creative process.

I do this way specifically because it divorces me of any ego attached to the piece. It makes it purely about the idea and not about my presentation of self. Take a flip through the Et Cetera, my real name isn't in it, and my internet handle is only in it once or twice. If the ideas are any good, somebody will build on them. Maybe they'll even improve them. This is more likely because I'm not demanding that you track me down and beg for my permission or approval. Once I've transmitted an idea into your head, the ball's in your park.

These days I generally only build on other Kopyleft work because I hate the territory games attached to copyright. I mean, look at the amazing posters that Net created out of your rants. Those are now gone from the Internet because of ego. If you weren't trying to protect them from being used by the wrong people, those posters would be still be getting stapled to telephone poles. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and it's for the best that people like Net are too intimidated to build on them. Keeps 'em more pure that way, and you can maintain control.

ANYWAY

In the interest of posting "to an actual end", and not "posting as a form of ego", my thoughts on this matter are here (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=26340.0) and here (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=20248.0) and I tried here (http://blackironprison.com/index.php?title=Task_List) and a little here (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=23273.0) too.

After being exhausted by the drama in the above threads, my emotions are best captured by the immortal words of Roger Himself:

I'm interested, mostly to watch people herd cats.



:pax:
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 27, 2011, 04:25:47 pm
These days I generally only build on other Kopyleft work because I hate the territory games attached to copyright. I mean, look at the amazing posters that Net created out of your rants. Those are now gone from the Internet because of ego. If you weren't trying to protect them from being used by the wrong people, those posters would be still be getting stapled to telephone poles.

Actually, no, he deleted them all and demanded that everyone else do the same, because he and I got in a fight over the way he was talking to Nigel.

But let's not let what actually happened get in the way.

Also, that wasn't an insulting critique on your character, it was pretty much your own words, taken from one of the times that it was explained to me what a shit I am for driving off a troll.  And in this thread, I was pretty much agreeing with you.

Sorry I bothered trying to explain.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cramulus on January 27, 2011, 04:36:33 pm
sorry, I may be wrong about that, I remembered it differently. The point about why I prefer Kopyleft stands though.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 27, 2011, 04:41:07 pm
sorry, I may be wrong about that, I remembered it differently. The point about why I prefer Kopyleft stands though.

The idea of this project was to present a framework for helping each other achieve what goals we have.  Much of it was therefore inherently going to be kopyleft, despite the problems that kopyleft presents.  It was supposed to be a place where we could generate tools for each others' use.

It appears that this is an abomination, and an excuse for everyone to dredge up old fights from the year dot.

It was a huge fucking mistake, and I'm sorry I bothered.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 27, 2011, 04:42:38 pm
It appears that this is an abomination, and an excuse for everyone to dredge up old fights from the year dot.

It was a huge fucking mistake, and I'm sorry I bothered.



It wasn't and isn't, please carry on.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on January 27, 2011, 04:44:07 pm
It appears that this is an abomination, and an excuse for everyone to dredge up old fights from the year dot.

It was a huge fucking mistake, and I'm sorry I bothered.



It wasn't and isn't, please carry on.

Seconded.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 27, 2011, 04:45:01 pm
It appears that this is an abomination, and an excuse for everyone to dredge up old fights from the year dot.

It was a huge fucking mistake, and I'm sorry I bothered.



It wasn't and isn't, please carry on.

I plan to, simply because of how much I've already put into it.

But I can already see what's going to happen, because it's happening already.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 27, 2011, 04:48:12 pm
It appears that this is an abomination, and an excuse for everyone to dredge up old fights from the year dot.

It was a huge fucking mistake, and I'm sorry I bothered.



It wasn't and isn't, please carry on.

I plan to, simply because of how much I've already put into it.

But I can already see what's going to happen, because it's happening already.

Then ignore it and carry on. Hell, thus far this thread is actually filling with content, don't let the beat...

drop.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 27, 2011, 04:49:25 pm
It appears that this is an abomination, and an excuse for everyone to dredge up old fights from the year dot.

It was a huge fucking mistake, and I'm sorry I bothered.



It wasn't and isn't, please carry on.

I plan to, simply because of how much I've already put into it.

But I can already see what's going to happen, because it's happening already.

Then ignore it and carry on. Hell, thus far this thread is actually filling with content, don't let the beat...

drop.

Exactly.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: AFK on January 27, 2011, 04:52:24 pm
If nothing else, I think it is helpful for other members of the community to see where everyone is at as far as goals, etc.  So it may be reassuring for anyone here who thought they were doing it wrong. 
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Richter on January 27, 2011, 05:08:57 pm
I have concluded I have No commitment to Sparkle Motion, no idea where the plot is,  and no ideas or concepts for greater Discordia. 

What I want to accomplish myself is to get a more cynical eye for the bullshit, and figure out more compelling ways of pointing it out, and convincing others, "This is fucked.  Let's un - fuck it."  The ideal is to do this in a constant and contructive (when necessary Destructive) way, without becoming pedantic or loosing sight of when to stop inciting.  I rarely label this as "Discoridan" becasue I see little need to throw the idea or icon of a "religion", "movement", or whatever onto it.  It would detract more than it would add. 

I think about people trying to "get" christianity, zen, satanism, discord, buddha, and they're all just looking to slap on a label, tag the sacrements like they're running bases.  They think they've got something or are empowered by something and it makes me want to yark on their shirt.  I don't want to see faith, converts, wider dispersion, mass agreement, or anything like that.  I want to see people who will think about what they're doing, being open to discussing and improving it. 

The stuff here has been a large part of that.  There are more compeling ideas, concepts, stories, and people than any other joint I've found. 
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Xooxe on January 27, 2011, 07:29:48 pm
I'm living in an economically and culturally depressed city that has little will to explore fun beyond sport and drugs. My main goal is instigation.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on January 27, 2011, 07:38:45 pm
I'm living in an economically and culturally depressed city that has little will to explore fun beyond sport and drugs. My main goal is instigation.

You live in Toledo Ohio?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Sister Fracture on January 27, 2011, 07:58:16 pm
I'm living in an economically and culturally depressed city that has little will to explore fun beyond sport and drugs. My main goal is instigation.

You live in Toledo Ohio on earth?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on January 27, 2011, 08:55:28 pm
I'm living in an economically and culturally depressed city that has little will to explore fun beyond sport and drugs. My main goal is instigation.

You live in Toledo Ohio on earth?

:mittens:
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 28, 2011, 01:54:56 pm
I'm about half way done compiling the goals people made.  I should be able to finish it this weekend, and then move on to the next part.

That was way more work than I expected.    :lulz:
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on January 28, 2011, 05:56:57 pm
I come here (sometimes):

For inspiration, and to be exposed to more weirdness

To learn how to be better at not falling into the same tired old patterns of behaviour that have driven (and ruined) human lives since just about forever, and sometimes I succeed.

Sometimes to explore ideas or have my own critiqued and extrapolated on

Sometimes just for lulz

x

edd
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Kai on January 28, 2011, 06:39:27 pm
My immediate goals are:

1)Completing my masters degree.
2)Figuring out what the hell is next.

My /long term/ goals and agendas are:

1)Personalized continued learning, until I know everything there is to know about everything, or die.
2) Get a job working somewhere in a museum.
3) Continue introducing people to the universe and life, as amazing and strange as it really is /in reality/, without any "gilding of refined gold".
4)Become the greatest force of biodiversity conservation the world has ever known, the Taxonomist Highlander.

My motives are:

The universe is amazing. This planet is amazing. Living things are amazing. My days, when I actually pay attention, are filled with amazement and wonder. Likewise, the universe, Earth, and life are STRANGE and ALIEN to what most of us experience. I WANT TO EXPERIENCE THAT! And I want to know why things are the way they are. I often get distracted, because its hard to stay focused when everything is WEIRD and AWESOME. I know it is, and I want everyone else to know too. Because when people start paying attention to how awesome everything is, and how small and petty it makes our little human microcosms seem, I think small notions will be left by the wayside.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 28, 2011, 06:51:02 pm
My immediate goals are:

1)Completing my masters degree.
2)Figuring out what the hell is next.

My /long term/ goals and agendas are:

1)Personalized continued learning, until I know everything there is to know about everything, or die.
2) Get a job working somewhere in a museum.
3) Continue introducing people to the universe and life, as amazing and strange as it really is /in reality/, without any "gilding of refined gold".
4)Become the greatest force of biodiversity conservation the world has ever known, the Taxonomist Highlander.

My motives are:

The universe is amazing. This planet is amazing. Living things are amazing. My days, when I actually pay attention, are filled with amazement and wonder. Likewise, the universe, Earth, and life are STRANGE and ALIEN to what most of us experience. I WANT TO EXPERIENCE THAT! And I want to know why things are the way they are. I often get distracted, because its hard to stay focused when everything is WEIRD and AWESOME. I know it is, and I want everyone else to know too. Because when people start paying attention to how awesome everything is, and how small and petty it makes our little human microcosms seem, I think small notions will be left by the wayside.

So, I should put you down for "Keep the world strange/make it stranger"?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Kai on January 28, 2011, 07:24:29 pm
My immediate goals are:

1)Completing my masters degree.
2)Figuring out what the hell is next.

My /long term/ goals and agendas are:

1)Personalized continued learning, until I know everything there is to know about everything, or die.
2) Get a job working somewhere in a museum.
3) Continue introducing people to the universe and life, as amazing and strange as it really is /in reality/, without any "gilding of refined gold".
4)Become the greatest force of biodiversity conservation the world has ever known, the Taxonomist Highlander.

My motives are:

The universe is amazing. This planet is amazing. Living things are amazing. My days, when I actually pay attention, are filled with amazement and wonder. Likewise, the universe, Earth, and life are STRANGE and ALIEN to what most of us experience. I WANT TO EXPERIENCE THAT! And I want to know why things are the way they are. I often get distracted, because its hard to stay focused when everything is WEIRD and AWESOME. I know it is, and I want everyone else to know too. Because when people start paying attention to how awesome everything is, and how small and petty it makes our little human microcosms seem, I think small notions will be left by the wayside.

So, I should put you down for "Keep the world strange/make it stranger"?

Yeah. With the understanding that "making it stranger" is just simply uncovering the strangeness that's right in front of us.

Heres an example of alien strangeness that is often overlooked.

In Utah, there lives one of the oldest and largest organisms on the planet. It's body covers a fifth of a square mile, weights over 6000 tones, and is estimated to be 80000 years old, the most massive of the Superkingdom Archaeplastida ever known. It's a great sprawling giant, a massive network, constantly shedding and growing parts. They call it Pando, the Trembling Giant.


Now, most people would just look at Pando, and think, oh lovely, a big grove of aspens. That's the anti-alien, weirdness-dismissing part of their brain talking. The anthropocentric tendencies tries to eliminate that which is alien and strange, tries to subjugate it or make it more normal so it is easier to deal with. In reality, Pando IS alien and strange and amazing, but humans have this strange idea that what is known is normal and uninteresting. If zebras were imaginary, and unicorns were real, people would lust after zebras.

It's the reason I did the "In those days" project, to point out just how weird and amazing things are by using mythic language, the sort of language that SHOULD already be associated with truly real things.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on January 28, 2011, 07:30:27 pm
Last semester, myself and my 300 or so classmates at the Southampton campus were transferred to Stony Brook's Main Campus for budget reasons. Let me tell you a little about this place.

In the last year, my university finally crawled out of the Top 10 (and into the Top 11) most Unhappy Students in the entire United States, according to Princeton Review. You know, the list that's typically filled with military schools.

When this news reached our ears, there was no shock, no cries of "what bullshit!" Just sullen half-smiles and bitter laughs, "yup, that sounds about right."

My mom asked me what the hell is wrong with that place, why is everyone shuffling around in dark clothing looking at their feet, why is absolutely no one looking like they're having a remotely good time?

Because everyone, everyone, wants to get the hell out. It's the same attitude that these kids had in high school, "Let's just get the fuck out as fast as we can." Back in high school it was to get out and get into college, the promised land of study as you please and make some of the best friends you'll ever have. Now it's get the hell out and find a life where we can have some peace from the grind that is undergraduate life here.

Academically, this place has shown me what I want out of life in the long-term. I can't fault it for that.

I put up no posters last semester. I experienced the worst bout of suicidal depression I've had in ages last semester. My friends and I fought and bickered like devils.

Something is horribly, poisonously wrong here. There are 20,000 kids, ages 18-24, all gathered in one place away from their parents, and no one is having a good time.


Now, I told you that story so I could tell you this one:


I know I can't singlehandedly change the culture of a miserable school. I don't have the charisma or leverage to lead a large group of revolutionary fun-havers. But I know I am capable of changing myself, of grinding my heels into this slippery slope of sad-sack moroseness and setting a godsbedamned EXAMPLE of how to get through the day without spending every minute wanting to jump into traffic.

But I have been struggling at doing this, failing to be an example. My agenda is to fix that, and by my own actions be a force for something good in the lives of a score of thousands of other young people who forgot how to have fun (or never learned in the first place. We all spent our formative teen years in this post-9/11 world after all).
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Requia ☣ on January 29, 2011, 08:20:01 am
My immediate goals are:

1)Completing my masters degree.
2)Figuring out what the hell is next.

My /long term/ goals and agendas are:

1)Personalized continued learning, until I know everything there is to know about everything, or die.
2) Get a job working somewhere in a museum.
3) Continue introducing people to the universe and life, as amazing and strange as it really is /in reality/, without any "gilding of refined gold".
4)Become the greatest force of biodiversity conservation the world has ever known, the Taxonomist Highlander.

My motives are:

The universe is amazing. This planet is amazing. Living things are amazing. My days, when I actually pay attention, are filled with amazement and wonder. Likewise, the universe, Earth, and life are STRANGE and ALIEN to what most of us experience. I WANT TO EXPERIENCE THAT! And I want to know why things are the way they are. I often get distracted, because its hard to stay focused when everything is WEIRD and AWESOME. I know it is, and I want everyone else to know too. Because when people start paying attention to how awesome everything is, and how small and petty it makes our little human microcosms seem, I think small notions will be left by the wayside.

So, I should put you down for "Keep the world strange/make it stranger"?

Yeah. With the understanding that "making it stranger" is just simply uncovering the strangeness that's right in front of us.

Heres an example of alien strangeness that is often overlooked.

In Utah, there lives one of the oldest and largest organisms on the planet. It's body covers a fifth of a square mile, weights over 6000 tones, and is estimated to be 80000 years old, the most massive of the Superkingdom Archaeplastida ever known. It's a great sprawling giant, a massive network, constantly shedding and growing parts. They call it Pando, the Trembling Giant.


Now, most people would just look at Pando, and think, oh lovely, a big grove of aspens. That's the anti-alien, weirdness-dismissing part of their brain talking. The anthropocentric tendencies tries to eliminate that which is alien and strange, tries to subjugate it or make it more normal so it is easier to deal with. In reality, Pando IS alien and strange and amazing, but humans have this strange idea that what is known is normal and uninteresting. If zebras were imaginary, and unicorns were real, people would lust after zebras.

It's the reason I did the "In those days" project, to point out just how weird and amazing things are by using mythic language, the sort of language that SHOULD already be associated with truly real things.

Jesus Christ.  I certainly see it as alien.  Apparently they aren't that uncommon on that scale in Utah either, but I've never heard of it before now.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Adios on January 29, 2011, 05:18:38 pm
My immediate goals are:

1)Completing my masters degree.
2)Figuring out what the hell is next.

My /long term/ goals and agendas are:

1)Personalized continued learning, until I know everything there is to know about everything, or die.
2) Get a job working somewhere in a museum.
3) Continue introducing people to the universe and life, as amazing and strange as it really is /in reality/, without any "gilding of refined gold".
4)Become the greatest force of biodiversity conservation the world has ever known, the Taxonomist Highlander.

My motives are:

The universe is amazing. This planet is amazing. Living things are amazing. My days, when I actually pay attention, are filled with amazement and wonder. Likewise, the universe, Earth, and life are STRANGE and ALIEN to what most of us experience. I WANT TO EXPERIENCE THAT! And I want to know why things are the way they are. I often get distracted, because its hard to stay focused when everything is WEIRD and AWESOME. I know it is, and I want everyone else to know too. Because when people start paying attention to how awesome everything is, and how small and petty it makes our little human microcosms seem, I think small notions will be left by the wayside.

So, I should put you down for "Keep the world strange/make it stranger"?

Yeah. With the understanding that "making it stranger" is just simply uncovering the strangeness that's right in front of us.

Heres an example of alien strangeness that is often overlooked.

In Utah, there lives one of the oldest and largest organisms on the planet. It's body covers a fifth of a square mile, weights over 6000 tones, and is estimated to be 80000 years old, the most massive of the Superkingdom Archaeplastida ever known. It's a great sprawling giant, a massive network, constantly shedding and growing parts. They call it Pando, the Trembling Giant.


Now, most people would just look at Pando, and think, oh lovely, a big grove of aspens. That's the anti-alien, weirdness-dismissing part of their brain talking. The anthropocentric tendencies tries to eliminate that which is alien and strange, tries to subjugate it or make it more normal so it is easier to deal with. In reality, Pando IS alien and strange and amazing, but humans have this strange idea that what is known is normal and uninteresting. If zebras were imaginary, and unicorns were real, people would lust after zebras.

It's the reason I did the "In those days" project, to point out just how weird and amazing things are by using mythic language, the sort of language that SHOULD already be associated with truly real things.

One of my favorite thing is driving off road through groves of Quakies in the summer. There is something so very peaceful about it.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 29, 2011, 05:19:16 pm
There are few things I enjoy more than the peak of creativity that so often follows a board melt-down.

Likewise

Can't say the same, here.  I'm not doing shit until this other business is resolved.  Why bother?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Adios on January 29, 2011, 05:23:13 pm
There are few things I enjoy more than the peak of creativity that so often follows a board melt-down.

Likewise

Can't say the same, here.  I'm not doing shit until this other business is resolved.  Why bother?

Me either, don't blame you.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 01, 2011, 06:19:22 pm
There are few things I enjoy more than the peak of creativity that so often follows a board melt-down.

Likewise

Can't say the same, here.  I'm not doing shit until this other business is resolved.  Why bother?

Me either, don't blame you.

Hopefully it resolves soon then.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2011, 06:21:51 pm
There are few things I enjoy more than the peak of creativity that so often follows a board melt-down.

Likewise

Can't say the same, here.  I'm not doing shit until this other business is resolved.  Why bother?

Me either, don't blame you.

Hopefully it resolves soon then.

It's back on.  Please be patient, as I have all this stuff on my laptop, and I don't have that much time at home, these days.  I hope to be ready for the next step sometime this weekend.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Hoopla! on February 01, 2011, 06:26:43 pm
Take all the time you need.

On a related note, Captain Utopia and I are in the beginning stages of a new project.  I will post more when there is more to say, but this thread will be very helpful I think.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2011, 06:27:54 pm
Take all the time you need.

On a related note, Captain Utopia and I are in the beginning stages of a new project.  I will post more when there is more to say, but this thread will be very helpful I think.


Sounds good.  Hopefully there's some overlap.  Hell, even if you're doing the exact same thing, good on ya.

Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on February 10, 2011, 01:57:26 am
Anything new with this idea, or was it dropped?

Just wondering...
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 10, 2011, 03:34:08 am
Anything new with this idea, or was it dropped?

Just wondering...

Not enough time. I haven't dropped it, I just need 3 continuous hours to finish the first bit.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on February 10, 2011, 03:37:06 am
Quote from: TGRR
Not enough time. I haven't dropped it, I just need 3 continuous hours to finish the first bit.

Good. Wanted to see what came out of this. Really damn disappointing if it had fallen through.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: navkat on February 10, 2011, 01:19:33 pm



1)  Alert people to the fact that their own personal reality is largely their own creation, so they might as well have fun with it.

Hah! It doesn't have to be a Prison all the time, does it?

Quote
5)  Make people laugh at the absurdity of it all.

I do this every day.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 27, 2011, 08:14:02 pm
BUMP.

I don't have time to do this, between IRL projects, editing the 30 days thing, and working on the next comic.

Captain Utopia, it's all yours.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on February 28, 2011, 04:52:32 am
Holy crap that took longer than I expected.  Okay, so I've probably misrepresented a bunch of you.

Sorry about that.

My approach here was to start with Rogers 4 points, and add a new point each time something new/distinctive seemed to crop up.  I've also filtered out anything which looked like a personal goal.  The rationale being that this thread is about what we can hope to accomplish together, if we share any external goals outside of ourselves and immediate community.  E.g. I may have a goal to have a bigger zing zang, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna have to order them there pills from the internet myself, you know?

Also, I was ruthless about trying to strip out means from goals.  E.g. my original input was all means.  So my name doesn't appear - oops.

#2 and #4 are clear winners.  But they are also vague and broad categories.  E.g. #2 could equally, in my view, be called - "make people less stupid, including ourselves".  I find it interesting that the votes correspond to my view of what Discordianism originally was about, but I'm most likely lo5'ing that.


The flawed list

1) Maximize Freedom
  Roger (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000228#msg1000228)
  Charley Brown (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000231#msg1000231)
  LMNO, PhD (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000239#msg1000239)
  Cuddlefish (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000270#msg1000270)
  Reeducation (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000437#msg1000437)
  Hover Cat (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000567#msg1000567)

2) Reality tunnel escape/intellectual improvement/think for yourself
  Roger (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000228#msg1000228)
  LMNO, PhD (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000239#msg1000239)
  Hoopla (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000243#msg1000243)
  RHWN (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000248#msg1000248)
  Doktor Blight (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000249#msg1000249)
  Niamh (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000262#msg1000262)
  Cuddlefish (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000270#msg1000270)
  Requia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000276#msg1000276)
  Nigel (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000311#msg1000311)
  Dr. James Semaj (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000365#msg1000365)
  Eater of Clowns (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000419#msg1000419)
  Pastor Miskatonic Zappathruster (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000462#msg1000462)
  NET (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000473#msg1000473)
  Demolition_Squid (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000497#msg1000497)
  Hover Cat (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000567#msg1000567)
  Doktor Phox (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1012275#msg1012275)

3) Keep things strange, or more so
  Roger (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000228#msg1000228)
  LMNO, PhD (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000239#msg1000239)
  Cuddlefish (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000270#msg1000270)
  Dr. James Semaj (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000365#msg1000365)
  Kai (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1001448#msg1001448)
  Doktor Phox (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1012275#msg1012275)

4) Have Fun
  Roger (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000228#msg1000228)
  LMNO, PhD (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000239#msg1000239)
  Hoopla (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000243#msg1000243)
  Doktor Blight (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000249#msg1000249)
  Niamh (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000262#msg1000262)
  Cuddlefish (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000270#msg1000270)
  Dr. James Semaj (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000365#msg1000365)
  NET (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000473#msg1000473)
  Hover Cat (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000567#msg1000567)
  Canis latrans eques (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000570#msg1000570)
  P3nT4gR4m (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000736#msg1000736)
  Doktor Phox (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1012275#msg1012275)

5) Change Political/Cultural climate
  Doktor Blight (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000249#msg1000249)
  Xooxe (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000949#msg1000949)

6) Evangelism
  Cuddlefish (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000270#msg1000270)
  NET (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000473#msg1000473)
  Cramulus (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000784#msg1000784)

7) Reduce Apathy
  Dr. James Semaj (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg1000365#msg1000365)


What next?

Let's argue about categories!

I'm looking for suggestions about any additional categories I missed, or any obvious way to split up/rearrange the existing ones.


What then?

Then we can make corrections about who-goes-where.  Probably in a new thread.  I missed the boat on "reduce apathy", but I'll have to wait to vote for it.  

Anyone on the board who missed the original discussion is - of course - more than welcome to join in, too.


What then, then?

Where to go from there depends highly on what areas we figure we actually have consensus on.  Hopefully it'll be obvious.  IMO the best result would be if the answer arose spontaneously out of community discussion.  Personally, I'd be delighted to see groups/cabals branching off into separate projects, but we'll see I guess.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Kai on February 28, 2011, 01:49:58 pm
Captain Utopia's all growed up! It feels like just yesterday you were a total newb.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 28, 2011, 02:18:37 pm
You missed me on keeping things strange.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on February 28, 2011, 02:20:35 pm
Fuck it, sign me up for 2, 3, and 4. Sounds like a good time.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on February 28, 2011, 04:28:29 pm
You missed me on keeping things strange.

Sorry about that, I started with your initial four categories, added people who agreed with them, and forgot to add your name.  Fixed now.


Fuck it, sign me up for 2, 3, and 4. Sounds like a good time.

Okay done.

At this stage now, I'd really like to concentrate on what the categories should be, rather than who-goes-where.  I.e. I want to make sure I didn't miss anyones input first.  I'll create a new thread within the next few days with category revisions, once that discussion tapers off.  I don't want to turn this into a bureaucratic mush, but I do want to make sure that everyones voice is heard.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 28, 2011, 07:32:17 pm
1 and 5 can probably be merged. Maximizing freedom and changing political climate, while not exactly the same, go well together.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Jasper on February 28, 2011, 07:52:25 pm
Sign me up for 2, 3, and 4.   
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Richter on February 28, 2011, 07:56:48 pm
My own M.O., after chewing over a chat with Roger, is basically to clal others and myself on the bullshit.  Basically 2,3,4. 

#1 is a worthy goal, but it seems like a very arbitrary one, and is likely covered in the execution of 2 and 3.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 28, 2011, 07:58:58 pm
You can probably sign me up for all of them, but I'm a bit iffy about the evangelism. Though evangelizing evangelists is an idea I've been toying with. But that can probably be assigned to other categories. I'll see if I can come up with some other possible goals.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 28, 2011, 08:06:59 pm
You can probably sign me up for all of them, but I'm a bit iffy about the evangelism. Though evangelizing evangelists is an idea I've been toying with. But that can probably be assigned to other categories. I'll see if I can come up with some other possible goals.

I evangelize for other religions.

Badly. 

 :lulz:
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 28, 2011, 08:12:00 pm
You can probably sign me up for all of them, but I'm a bit iffy about the evangelism. Though evangelizing evangelists is an idea I've been toying with. But that can probably be assigned to other categories. I'll see if I can come up with some other possible goals.

I evangelize for other religions.

Badly. 

 :lulz:


 :lulz: That's not a bad idea either. Maybe tailor it to the target too, like, maybe for That Jesus Guy who's at every Sox game and metal concert in Massachusetts, evangelize for atheism, or Raelianism.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 28, 2011, 08:14:21 pm
You can probably sign me up for all of them, but I'm a bit iffy about the evangelism. Though evangelizing evangelists is an idea I've been toying with. But that can probably be assigned to other categories. I'll see if I can come up with some other possible goals.

I evangelize for other religions.

Badly. 

 :lulz:


 :lulz: That's not a bad idea either. Maybe tailor it to the target too, like, maybe for That Jesus Guy who's at every Sox game and metal concert in Massachusetts, evangelize for atheism, or Raelianism.

Calvinism and Baptist sects are my prey of choice.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 28, 2011, 08:18:40 pm
You can probably sign me up for all of them, but I'm a bit iffy about the evangelism. Though evangelizing evangelists is an idea I've been toying with. But that can probably be assigned to other categories. I'll see if I can come up with some other possible goals.

I evangelize for other religions.

Badly. 

 :lulz:


 :lulz: That's not a bad idea either. Maybe tailor it to the target too, like, maybe for That Jesus Guy who's at every Sox game and metal concert in Massachusetts, evangelize for atheism, or Raelianism.

Calvinism and Baptist sects are my prey of choice.

Jesus Guy is either a Baptist or a Pentacostal. I forget exactly which. They interviewed him in the Phoenix a couple of years ago.


Found article. He's a Baptist:
http://thephoenix.com/boston/life/9674-id-check-bob-whetstone/

Is there baseball in Heaven?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVoFoNWOF-c
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on February 28, 2011, 10:01:56 pm
I'd say you could probably mix 1 and 5 together, give that they run in a similar vein. I'd also say you could probably drop 7, since I'm the only person who had that one.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on February 28, 2011, 11:15:44 pm
I'd argue that 1, 5,  and 7, and to a lesser degree 6, are basically the same goal with different means. But if I tried hard enough, I could also argue that they are all the same in the end.

But... honestly, I'd leave them as is, with the possible exception of merging 5 and 7 (depending on what Semaj means by apathy, it probably falls under the broader category of changing cultural climate). Maximizing Freedom, while, it COULD be altering the political/cutural climate is also a matter of working within oneself to over come inhibitions, at least for me it is, so again, I would say they should remain separate. I have no issues with any of the categories, honestly, and unless an OP does, I don't think it should matter.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: President Television on February 28, 2011, 11:57:04 pm
You can sign me up for 1, 2, 3, and 4.
5 is a good goal, but seems relatively unfeasible from my perspective. 6 could be fun, but I see it more as a means to accomplishing the first 4 goals than as an end unto itself. For my opinion on 7, see 5.
That being said, I'll do what I can for those last three. They just aren't my main objectives right now.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 01, 2011, 12:18:53 am
If we're smashing goals together, then count me out.

That's exactly what Kalera and Liam were warning us about.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on March 01, 2011, 12:24:43 am
If we're smashing goals together, then count me out.

That's exactly what Kalera and Liam were warning us about.

Well, there you have it.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 01, 2011, 12:38:54 am
I wasn't planning to jump back into the discussion this early but.. my biggest concern in constructing the list is that I had made the "winners" too vague and catch-all.  That said, merging is appropriate if someone put down something which upon reflection is legitimately covered by an existing category, and they want to change.

For example:

I'd also say you could probably drop 7, since I'm the only person who had that one.

I think this would be a terrible reason to drop a category.


I'm not sure where this idea of merging/pruning categories came from:

I'm looking for suggestions about any additional categories I missed, or any obvious way to split up/rearrange the existing ones.


My goal here is to represent everybody as best as possible, and then use that as a basis to devise projects which may have a broad appeal.  As it stands, I think the list is already somewhat useful in that regard - but a finer-grained list of categories would be more useful.

Open question - is there any way that #2 "Reality tunnel escape/intellectual improvement/think for yourself" and #4 "Have Fun" (the two largest groups) could be meaningfully split up?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Wizard on March 01, 2011, 12:44:55 am
Quote
I think this would be a terrible reason to drop a category.

Okay, so we're not getting rid of categories, but expanding them where need be? Fair enough then, misunderstood what the goal was at this stage.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on March 01, 2011, 12:47:02 am
I have no issues with any of the categories, honestly, and unless an OP does, I don't think it should matter.
Just sayin'.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on March 02, 2011, 01:36:41 am
Quote
I think this would be a terrible reason to drop a category.

Okay, so we're not getting rid of categories, but expanding them where need be? Fair enough then, misunderstood what the goal was at this stage.

Likewise. I'll try to expand upon the political climate category so that it's distinct enough from maximizing freedom.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Shub-Crackerath on March 02, 2011, 01:50:18 am
If i can play too, I'd like to be put down for a 2, a 3 and a 4.
If i may also be so bold as to suggest an 8; socialising/networking
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 02, 2011, 02:10:46 pm
If i may also be so bold as to suggest an 8; socialising/networking

We keep that on a sub-board.

http://facebook.com
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Jenne on March 02, 2011, 02:46:27 pm
If i may also be so bold as to suggest an 8; socialising/networking

We keep that on a sub-board.

http://facebook.com

I humbly and respectfully disagree.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Sister Fracture on March 02, 2011, 03:14:49 pm
If i may also be so bold as to suggest an 8; socialising/networking

We keep that on a sub-board.

http://facebook.com

I humbly and respectfully disagree.

There's also www.spagbook.com
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Jenne on March 02, 2011, 03:30:18 pm
If i may also be so bold as to suggest an 8; socialising/networking

We keep that on a sub-board.

http://facebook.com

I humbly and respectfully disagree.

There's also www.spagbook.com

I don't go there for those things.  AND I come here for different things.  Also, I don't really have "goals" for this place and my being here.  *shrug*

But I wouldn't want to see my interactions with people on a social level limited to facefuck or spagfuck, either.  *shrug again*

If PD.com is to become a place of ALL GOALS ALL THE TIME!!! then I probably will post less than I do now.  I don't have the bandwidth, since IRL is so busy and hectic, to contribute more than that.

...but I explained that already when I originally responded.  I come here for reading up on all sorts of things, and sharing others.  But I do cheer on the work that others take up for whatever cause or reason.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 02, 2011, 04:34:21 pm
If PD.com is to become a place of ALL GOALS ALL THE TIME!!!

No-one wants that, we're just talking about making it easier for people who want to get together to do stuff.

First step is figuring out what it is that people might want to work on together.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Jenne on March 02, 2011, 04:37:01 pm
If PD.com is to become a place of ALL GOALS ALL THE TIME!!!

No-one wants that, we're just talking about making it easier for people who want to get together to do stuff.

First step is figuring out what it is that people might want to work on together.

Oh I know.  I think it's a great thing, it's also part of what makes this place great, and I really don't want to sound like a wet rag.  I just like all facets about the forum, I'd hate to see any part of it (I'll repeat: ANY PART OF IT) go.  As well as people posting less.  Because of mandates or whatever. 

I also miss those who'd be posting more or have left, for WHATEVER reason.   

Meh.  Pay no attention to me, I think I'm just being emo.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 02, 2011, 04:56:49 pm
It's a valid concern, and I'm glad you brought it up.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on March 02, 2011, 07:14:51 pm
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on March 02, 2011, 07:15:55 pm
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|

Are you kidding?  THIS IS DISCORDIA.  Rules are suggestions.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on March 02, 2011, 07:36:22 pm
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|

Are you kidding?  THIS IS DISCORDIA.  Rules are suggestions.

 :lulz:

I think it's being made a lot more difficult than it needs to be.  Or maybe that is just me. 
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on March 02, 2011, 07:41:22 pm
No, it is.  These tend to be normal first steps.  Pretty soon, we'll go through a Reductionist phase, and just start doing shit with each other.

Order and Disorder, swinging back and forth...
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 02, 2011, 08:42:17 pm
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|

Where are you seeing any mention of rules?
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on March 02, 2011, 10:28:19 pm
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|

Where are you seeing any mention of rules?

I shouldn't have used rules....

I know rules =/= goals =/= deadlines, they just fall into the same avoidance category for me. 

I got that from...

If PD.com is to become a place of ALL GOALS ALL THE TIME!!! then I probably will post less than I do now. 


...which makes me very uneasy.  Sounds like work.... 
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on March 02, 2011, 10:34:00 pm
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|

Where are you seeing any mention of rules?

I shouldn't have used rules....

I know rules =/= goals =/= deadlines, they just fall into the same avoidance category for me. 

I got that from...

If PD.com is to become a place of ALL GOALS ALL THE TIME!!! then I probably will post less than I do now. 


...which makes me very uneasy.  Sounds like work.... 
AFAIK, this project is intended to hook us up with slike minded people in order to work on projects together. Nothing with rules or deadlines. That said I do not think "socialising" counts. Not that there shouldn't be socializing shouldn't be allowed on my PD, but that it shouldn't be part of THIS project. There are plenyty of people who want to socialise. Fewer people are into the projects though, so this is a useful tool for them.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: East Coast Hustle on March 03, 2011, 01:35:58 am
I'm deep into the projects, dawg. 13th and Minna, to be exact.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Sister Fracture on March 03, 2011, 01:42:25 am
After reading the last couple of pages, I think I must have completely misunderstood the thinking behind the OP.

I don't know, if there are going to be rules and such, I will not be participating.  Sorry.  :|

Where are you seeing any mention of rules?

I shouldn't have used rules....

I know rules =/= goals =/= deadlines, they just fall into the same avoidance category for me. 

I got that from...

If PD.com is to become a place of ALL GOALS ALL THE TIME!!! then I probably will post less than I do now. 


...which makes me very uneasy.  Sounds like work.... 
AFAIK, this project is intended to hook us up with slike minded people in order to work on projects together. Nothing with rules or deadlines. That said I do not think "socialising" counts. Not that there shouldn't be socializing shouldn't be allowed on my PD, but that it shouldn't be part of THIS project. There are plenyty of people who want to socialise. Fewer people are into the projects though, so this is a useful tool for them.

It was more, I think, a project designed to give people help with carrying out ideas and personal goals by brainstorming and so on.  People who are close to each other generally can get together on their own
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 03, 2011, 01:45:13 am
I'm deep into the projects, dawg. 13th and Minna, to be exact.


DRIVING TALUFA AROUND WHEN HE GETS HIS HEART BROKED, LOOKING FOR KOREANS TO BEAT UP.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Subtract Eight! on March 03, 2011, 03:10:38 am
yo peeps gues what sheen tatooed a apples on his chest

he's a no brainer sire sir
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 03, 2011, 03:45:02 pm

I’m going to clearly state my goals, and then I’m going to ask you to state yours, if you have any (And not everyone does, after all...To some, this is just a rather interesting social group).  Then we can discuss where these goals meet, and what we can do to accomplish them, having learned from past mistakes.  You know, like a biped ought to do.

I think I caused some confusion by not starting a new topic as it makes it much harder to keep track of things.  So I've created a new topic (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28547.msg1013357#msg1013357) and wiki page (http://erisbarandgrill.org/sandbox/index.php/So_Just_Exactly_What_ARE_We_Doing,_Anyway%3F)


AFAIK, this project is intended to hook us up with slike minded people in order to work on projects together. Nothing with rules or deadlines. That said I do not think "socialising" counts. Not that there shouldn't be socializing shouldn't be allowed on my PD, but that it shouldn't be part of THIS project. There are plenyty of people who want to socialise. Fewer people are into the projects though, so this is a useful tool for them.
It was more, I think, a project designed to give people help with carrying out ideas and personal goals by brainstorming and so on.  People who are close to each other generally can get together on their own

This is not a project.  It's an informal census to see what goals people have in common, as a foundation to see if they would be interested in working together to accomplish them.

If this process doesn't implode before the first milestone - figuring out where everybody is - then a project (hopefully more than one) may come out of it.. but we're not there yet.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on March 03, 2011, 03:46:53 pm
Honestly, it might simply be a reference guide.

"I've got an idea... Who would be into where I want to take it?"
:checks chart:
"Ok, I'm gonna PM Cram, Richter, and Jenne."
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on March 03, 2011, 03:47:23 pm
No worries on my part, I'm in that section of midwest hell no one wants to visit  :|  I don't blame them a bit!
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 03, 2011, 03:51:52 pm
Honestly, it might simply be a reference guide.

"I've got an idea... Who would be into where I want to take it?"
:checks chart:
"Ok, I'm gonna PM Cram, Richter, and Jenne."

I think that'd be pretty neat.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on March 04, 2011, 02:28:25 am
No worries on my part, I'm in that section of midwest hell no one wants to visit  :|  I don't blame them a bit!
I'm two hours away from you.  :D
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Captain Utopia on March 04, 2011, 02:31:28 am
You guys should totally join forces! 
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Triple Zero on March 07, 2011, 04:38:09 pm
I know rules =/= goals =/= deadlines, they just fall into the same avoidance category for me. 

wouldn't worry about that too much.

I think we need a category of people that just like to hop in on a project when they feel like it.
(unless I mistake the purpose of this thread for anything)

... You wouldnt be lonely in that category either :)

it's just that some people like being a bit more specific about it. if I understand correctly. doesn't mean that everybody should.

I'd be in both camps, btw.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Cain on March 07, 2011, 06:02:59 pm
You can't categorize me!

I AM A MAN, NOT A NUMBER!
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Triple Zero on March 07, 2011, 06:54:34 pm
You can't categorize me!

I AM A MAN, NOT A NUMBER!

YES YOU ARE, GET BACK IN YOUR DEMOGRAPHIC

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8458/cainwa.png)
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: LMNO on March 07, 2011, 06:58:36 pm
You can't categorize me!

I AM A MAN, NOT A NUMBER!


YOU ARE NUMBER SIX.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Subtract Eight! on March 09, 2011, 01:06:17 am
That makes me -2.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: Phox on March 09, 2011, 01:18:31 am
You can't categorize me!

I AM A MAN, NOT A NUMBER!


YOU ARE NUMBER SIX.
You have broken the law, 24601.
Title: Re: So Just Exactly What ARE We Doing, Anyway?
Post by: BadBeast on October 03, 2011, 09:54:57 pm
I know rules =/= goals =/= deadlines, they just fall into the same avoidance category for me. 

wouldn't worry about that too much.

I think we need a category of people that just like to hop in on a project when they feel like it.
(unless I mistake the purpose of this thread for anything)

... You wouldnt be lonely in that category either :)

it's just that some people like being a bit more specific about it. if I understand correctly. doesn't mean that everybody should.

I'd be in both camps, btw.
Bump. I can fit into this category. Probably. More than probably. Almost definitely.