Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: nobodyhome on January 27, 2017, 11:16:54 pm

Title: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 27, 2017, 11:16:54 pm
I know of none in my locality.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Faust on January 27, 2017, 11:44:51 pm
Abortion is illegal, though no one is prosecuted under it.
There is a law against blaspheme.
To build a house you have to follow an arcane set of planning laws to make your house looks like something from the 1970's.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 28, 2017, 01:23:25 am
It is illegal to disrupt the worship of God in my state. It is also illegal to beat someone even if they enthusiastically consent. Also marital infidelity is punishable with up to three years in prison, regardless of how okay with it your spouse might be with it.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on January 28, 2017, 04:58:54 am
I live in AZ, so, all of them?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on January 28, 2017, 06:17:27 am
The government of my country (which is newspeak, meaning the bunch of robbers who have quartered he government business here) has first signed a contract with Putin to borrow a huge amount of money for 30 years, which they will then give back to the Russians in return for their building a new nuclear power station of questionable design... then they passed a law that made all the documentation of the deal state secrets for 30 years. They are also subsiding Hollywood with the tax money they collect primarily from the huddled masses, under a so-called "reverse VAT support" scheme,which means productions brought here not only don't pay VAT, they can the amount of VAT they would normally have to pay as a grant from the Hungarian government... And over the past 7 years, they replaced numerous social security payments with "tax discounts" - which means the poorest, with little taxable income, get nothing.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on January 28, 2017, 10:56:04 am
I've think we have laws in scotland. Nobody really bothers much with them, tho.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on January 28, 2017, 12:12:10 pm
The laws of my country mean if a kid starts acting like a moody teenager, and he's Muslim, I am required to report this as suspected radicalisation and spy on him for the Home Department.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 28, 2017, 02:13:58 pm
I know of none in my locality.

Is that because you aren't looking, or because you live in Antarctica or Norway or some shit?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Bruno on January 28, 2017, 03:53:46 pm
Ummm... All I can think of at the moment is that, in some counties, alcohol can't be sold on Sunday, or the hours at which they can be sold are different on Sunday.

And then there was the time the DOJ had to step in and tell the local court that, no, they could not, in fact, stop local citizens from completing the mosque they had almost finished.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 28, 2017, 04:03:21 pm
I suppose a clarification would be in order. Certainly the use of the word "unjust" or "socially unjust" can and should go down the rabbit hole. First a person has to explain what it is they mean when they speak of justice and argue for that, after which they can argue how and and in which manner this applies to groups.

Define our terms.

When I think of social justice, I think of it in the general sense. That all people should be allowed equal treatment under the law, whether these be considered "just laws" or "unjust laws". If all people are treated the same the the laws of the land, then in my view "social justice" has taken place.

I don't think of social justice in terms of equal outcomes, because we are not equal in our capabilities, nor in our starting points.

So when I ask for examples of social injustice, I'm asking for examples where people are not treated equally under the law.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 28, 2017, 04:28:48 pm
Like when cops target black guys and the mentally ill homeless almost exclusively? Or how black people are 4 times more likely to face charges for possession of pot than a white dude? That kind of thing?

because there's no laws on the books in that regard, yet it is still a part of the legal system. That sort of thing?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: LMNO on January 28, 2017, 06:12:53 pm
Being homeless is a crime.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 29, 2017, 12:11:34 am
Being homeless is a crime.

Being poor is a crime.  Being homeless is a capital offense.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 29, 2017, 12:46:44 am

When I think of social justice, I think of it in the general sense. That all people should be allowed equal treatment under the law, whether these be considered "just laws" or "unjust laws". If all people are treated the same the the laws of the land, then in my view "social justice" has taken place.


Then you do not believe in social justice and are in fact a shitlord.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 29, 2017, 12:54:29 am

When I think of social justice, I think of it in the general sense. That all people should be allowed equal treatment under the law, whether these be considered "just laws" or "unjust laws". If all people are treated the same the the laws of the land, then in my view "social justice" has taken place.


Then you do not believe in social justice and are in fact a shitlord.

He's been an edgy little tyke from the beginning.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Roly Poly Oly-Garch on January 29, 2017, 03:57:32 am
City council tried to fluoridate the water. The woo community marched in the street, held an election, and blocked the measure.

A local capitalist owns a lot and allowed a tent city to operate there. They have accrued fines into 6 figures.

On a related note, we have a "no stopping" ordinance on the sidewalks. Also, there's code against unpermitted structures, which includes putting a tarp over you if you're sleeping on the streets. The old mayor stopped enforcing these ordinances. Camps went up. People in houses raised hell. Camps got swept. This in a VERY liberal city.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 29, 2017, 04:24:56 am
City council tried to fluoridate the water.

The bastards!
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 04:37:52 am
City council tried to fluoridate the water. The woo community marched in the street, held an election, and blocked the measure.

A local capitalist owns a lot and allowed a tent city to operate there. They have accrued fines into 6 figures.

On a related note, we have a "no stopping" ordinance on the sidewalks. Also, there's code against unpermitted structures, which includes putting a tarp over you if you're sleeping on the streets. The old mayor stopped enforcing these ordinances. Camps went up. People in houses raised hell. Camps got swept. This in a VERY liberal city.

I'm glad you had specific examples. I tried to think of some, and then I got overwhelmed because everything here is stupid.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 04:39:25 am
The old Portland was poor, and therefore very liberal. The new Portland pays lip service to liberal ideals, but there are a lot of people with money here and first and foremost they wish to remain comfortable, which means not having to deal with the complaints of brown people and poors.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 29, 2017, 03:01:38 pm

When I think of social justice, I think of it in the general sense. That all people should be allowed equal treatment under the law, whether these be considered "just laws" or "unjust laws". If all people are treated the same the the laws of the land, then in my view "social justice" has taken place.


Then you do not believe in social justice and are in fact a shitlord.

Is it a religion, that I have to believe?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 04:15:51 pm
 :roll:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 04:22:47 pm
I can see that in place of answering any pointed questions ITT, you're intent on wanking all over this topic.

Thanks for that, you never know whose threads to ignore at first. This is super helpful!
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on January 29, 2017, 04:29:06 pm

When I think of social justice, I think of it in the general sense. That all people should be allowed equal treatment under the law, whether these be considered "just laws" or "unjust laws". If all people are treated the same the the laws of the land, then in my view "social justice" has taken place.


Then you do not believe in social justice and are in fact a shitlord.

Is it a religion, that I have to believe?

I know better than to tell a libertarian piece of shit they "have" to do anything.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 04:54:57 pm
Another banal, undereducated "freethinker", I see. They must be reproducing asexually.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on January 29, 2017, 05:17:00 pm
Words having meanings = religion now

 :lulz:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 06:00:56 pm
Words having meanings = religion now

 :lulz:

Well if we were really thinking freely, we would just redefine every word we wanted to use, or make up our own entirely.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 29, 2017, 06:18:05 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 06:23:26 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.
             /
 :bankster:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 06:23:57 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.
        /
:mullet:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 06:24:26 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

I am sure there are whole libraries full of books filled with things you aren't sure about.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 06:26:11 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Do you think that all laws are good and just, so long as they're equally applied?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 06:27:35 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Do you think that laws are good and just, so long as they're equally applied?

Like if everyone who can't apply basic reasoning skills get launched into the sun via a space-capsule full of bees?

Sounds fair to me.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 06:32:39 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Do you think that laws are good and just, so long as they're equally applied?

Like if everyone who can't apply basic reasoning skills get launched into the sun via a space-capsule full of bees?

Sounds fair to me.

Totally fair, and therefore just.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 06:34:02 pm
Better pack your bags, xero.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 06:37:05 pm
It's totally cool to send poors to poor farms, as long as all poors are treated equally.

Long jail sentences for possession of marijuana? Absolutely no injustice there, provided the law itself doesn't contain any clause targeting certain groups.

Abortion ban? Completely just, given that the law applies to all women.

I mean, no matter how invasive, pointless, or restrictive a law is, there can be zero injustice as long as it's applied fairly.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 06:38:46 pm
I can't imagine what injustice there is in rounding up the homeless, burning their possessions, and jailing them; I mean, the law applies equally to all the homeless, so it's gotta be completely just and right.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on January 29, 2017, 08:29:40 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 29, 2017, 11:01:49 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 29, 2017, 11:12:56 pm
 :goatse:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 29, 2017, 11:26:07 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?

Measure 11
137.700

Those are the first two unjust laws that come to mind, but maybe you can think of others.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on January 30, 2017, 12:19:34 am
ITT: A childlike misapprehension of the nature of law, as it applies socially, but also generally.

Do you actually think that law itself is merely statutes? Do you really have no idea how the justice system works or are you just playing stupid for trolling purposes? There is, of course, a third possibility.

Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 30, 2017, 02:29:48 am
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?

Measure 11
137.700

Those are the first two unjust laws that come to mind, but maybe you can think of others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Ballot_Measure_11_(1994)

After reading the reports on the measure, I'd have to agree.

Shifting the burden from judges to prosecutors and letting prosecutors use the threat of measure 11 to get plea bargains strikes me as unjust. More importantly, though it doesn't deal with the root issues driving various kinds of crimes.

I'm saying this from a purely practical stand-point. Not because I have any feeling for offenders.

It's wrong not only because of the justice issue, but more importantly, because it's ultimately not effective.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 30, 2017, 03:32:44 am
Yeah. That's what practically everyone in the state of Oregon over 5th grade has also concluded.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 30, 2017, 03:36:29 am
Not because I have any feeling for offenders.

It's wrong not only because of the justice issue, but more importantly, because it's ultimately not effective.

You should stop talking.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 30, 2017, 03:37:42 am
I have a feeling that what we're dealing with here is someone very young who is too smart for 4chan, but still

(https://bkctmoapghow.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/edgy.png)
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 30, 2017, 10:57:24 am
Not because I have any feeling for offenders.

It's wrong not only because of the justice issue, but more importantly, because it's ultimately not effective.

You should stop talking.


Are you presenting a utilitarian argument? Because if you are, I'd agree.

Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 30, 2017, 10:58:58 am
On the other hand, there are some who disagree who one might think have more advanced credentials.

http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2012/aug/03/steve-doell/has-measure-11-really-helped-halve-crime-rate-1995/
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Faust on January 30, 2017, 11:27:45 am
False Dichotomy: you asked about socially unjust laws. The crime rate can fall through an unfair mechanism, and still be unjust.

Example: Jailing all the homeless people would result in homelessness being "solved".
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 30, 2017, 11:57:10 am
False Dichotomy: you asked about socially unjust laws. The crime rate can fall through an unfair mechanism, and still be unjust.

Example: Jailing all the homeless people would result in homelessness being "solved".

That's totally true.

That's the problem. How to get the one without doing the other (and without all the emotional hand-wringing).
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: bugmenоt on January 30, 2017, 12:28:29 pm
Some people are not allowed to come to the place where I live. Others are not allowed to leave. It's illegal to kill yourself (some explain this by the fact that the destruction of government property is illegal). You're allowed to build a tower, as long as it doesn't worship the Wrong God (TM). If you're a supermarket you can get in trouble if you give away food you couldn't sell. You're not allowed to take most things thrown away by others. We still have some weird Feudal age being-more-equal-than-others shit going on (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrgergemeinde), but we're not supposed to make a big deal out of it. There still are unjust laws based on gender. Oh, and our constitution starts with the invocation of God, which may be the most severe insult to Her.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Faust on January 30, 2017, 12:32:57 pm
False Dichotomy: you asked about socially unjust laws. The crime rate can fall through an unfair mechanism, and still be unjust.

Example: Jailing all the homeless people would result in homelessness being "solved".

That's totally true.

That's the problem. How to get the one without doing the other (and without all the emotional hand-wringing).

Feed forward control:
Root cause analysis as opposed to treating the symptoms. Certain crimes correlate to disenfranchised environments, and things like access to quality education, basic standards of living  etc reduce them.

Some crimes don't show any reduction regardless of enforcement policy: Heroin and drug use has never been as rampant, in every class and level of society: people want drugs, the only way to tackle that is reduce demand which means social change not legal.

Feed back control:
Encourage schemes that reduce recidivism. The American model is one of the worst in the world for recidivism, reduction of that is not a goal of for profit prison. In comparison the Norway model has a tenth of that. The core differences (apart from investment) are one acts as punitive, the other encourages responsibility of the individual and building them a trade to break an obvious repeating pattern.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Faust on January 30, 2017, 12:36:00 pm
and our constitution starts with the invocation of God, which may be the most severe insult to Her.
So does ours, It's asking for trouble, it's the equivalent of waking her from a hangover.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 30, 2017, 03:19:16 pm
False Dichotomy: you asked about socially unjust laws. The crime rate can fall through an unfair mechanism, and still be unjust.

Example: Jailing all the homeless people would result in homelessness being "solved".

That's totally true.

That's the problem. How to get the one without doing the other (and without all the emotional hand-wringing).

What, exactly, are you dismissing as "emotional hand-wringing"? You are coming across like one of those autistic kids who irrationally and ignorantly believes that emotions = bad, logic = good.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 30, 2017, 03:20:24 pm
I am sincerely hoping you're just a kid. If you are an adult, the prognosis is hopeless stupidity.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on January 31, 2017, 04:32:46 am
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?

Specifically, which polity?

But, assuming your answer is any: Hungary, for instance, has completely revamped its criminal code. Personal debt is now (with some limitations) inheritable. Totally unjust. And you are required by law to contribute specific amounts of money to your parents' upkeep, should they be unable to fend for themselves. Totally unjust.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on January 31, 2017, 10:35:45 pm
False Dichotomy: you asked about socially unjust laws. The crime rate can fall through an unfair mechanism, and still be unjust.

Example: Jailing all the homeless people would result in homelessness being "solved".

That's totally true.

That's the problem. How to get the one without doing the other (and without all the emotional hand-wringing).

Feed forward control:
Root cause analysis as opposed to treating the symptoms. Certain crimes correlate to disenfranchised environments, and things like access to quality education, basic standards of living  etc reduce them.

Some crimes don't show any reduction regardless of enforcement policy: Heroin and drug use has never been as rampant, in every class and level of society: people want drugs, the only way to tackle that is reduce demand which means social change not legal.

Feed back control:
Encourage schemes that reduce recidivism. The American model is one of the worst in the world for recidivism, reduction of that is not a goal of for profit prison. In comparison the Norway model has a tenth of that. The core differences (apart from investment) are one acts as punitive, the other encourages responsibility of the individual and building them a trade to break an obvious repeating pattern.

I agree with all this except the business of Norway. Norway's having problems with cultural issues now and certain kinds of crimes because of the cultures which have been imported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVVvJIM5UI
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2017, 11:21:46 pm
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?

Specifically, which polity?

But, assuming your answer is any: Hungary, for instance, has completely revamped its criminal code. Personal debt is now (with some limitations) inheritable. Totally unjust. And you are required by law to contribute specific amounts of money to your parents' upkeep, should they be unable to fend for themselves. Totally unjust.

This is how you get serfdom.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on January 31, 2017, 11:22:26 pm
False Dichotomy: you asked about socially unjust laws. The crime rate can fall through an unfair mechanism, and still be unjust.

Example: Jailing all the homeless people would result in homelessness being "solved".

That's totally true.

That's the problem. How to get the one without doing the other (and without all the emotional hand-wringing).

Feed forward control:
Root cause analysis as opposed to treating the symptoms. Certain crimes correlate to disenfranchised environments, and things like access to quality education, basic standards of living  etc reduce them.

Some crimes don't show any reduction regardless of enforcement policy: Heroin and drug use has never been as rampant, in every class and level of society: people want drugs, the only way to tackle that is reduce demand which means social change not legal.

Feed back control:
Encourage schemes that reduce recidivism. The American model is one of the worst in the world for recidivism, reduction of that is not a goal of for profit prison. In comparison the Norway model has a tenth of that. The core differences (apart from investment) are one acts as punitive, the other encourages responsibility of the individual and building them a trade to break an obvious repeating pattern.

I agree with all this except the business of Norway. Norway's having problems with cultural issues now and certain kinds of crimes because of the cultures which have been imported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVVvJIM5UI

Oh, great.  You're alt-right.

Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on January 31, 2017, 11:37:11 pm
jesus they're everywhere.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Faust on January 31, 2017, 11:48:45 pm
He is just a racist. I point a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world, with the best figures on recidivism, and he links to say that all the foreigners are infesting the country to commit rapes.

Literally a single crime made them slide from being in the top ten safest countries in the world, and that was committed by a man who killed 77 people because of Immigrants were ruining the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik).
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2017, 12:08:15 am
He is just a racist. I point a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world, with the best figures on recidivism, and he links to say that all the foreigners are infesting the country to commit rapes.

Literally a single crime made them slide from being in the top ten safest countries in the world, and that was committed by a man who killed 77 people because of Immigrants were ruining the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik).

Somehow, I don't think xerosubaru cares.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 01, 2017, 12:28:13 am
These types of people joincommunities like ours because they think "think for yourself" translates to "open minds for sale to first ideological buyer". Which is usually the case, but our folks are made of stouter, smarter stuff.

No, I doubt he cares either. If he does, he has some double-time backpedalling to get to. And some vicious mockery to endure.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 12:38:11 am
I think I can safely stand by my assessment of hopeless stupidity. There is nothing to be done with someone who thinks that random user-uploaded videos of some jackass' opinion are a credible information source.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 12:39:29 am
He is just a racist. I point a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world, with the best figures on recidivism, and he links to say that all the foreigners are infesting the country to commit rapes.

Literally a single crime made them slide from being in the top ten safest countries in the world, and that was committed by a man who killed 77 people because of Immigrants were ruining the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik).

It's racist to make accusations about people when you disagree with them on some point.

But then again, that's the knee-jerk reaction of some.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 12:43:26 am
He is just a racist. I point a country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world, with the best figures on recidivism, and he links to say that all the foreigners are infesting the country to commit rapes.

Literally a single crime made them slide from being in the top ten safest countries in the world, and that was committed by a man who killed 77 people because of Immigrants were ruining the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik).

It's racist to make accusations about people when you disagree with them on some point.

But then again, that's the knee-jerk reaction of some.

When what you're disagreeing over are racist claims, it's pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 12:46:58 am
It's not racist to show that certain cultures have increased the crime rate in certain countries.

Racism is about race, not culture.

The misogyny, homophobia and whole-scale restriction of the rights women and LGBT's in these countries with these cultures presents a real threat which has to be acknowledged.

That's not racism.

But then again, I rather suspected this sort of reaction from some.

It makes me wonder how anyone would be able to argue successfully for not being something.

I'm thinking to myself here...How would someone prove that they weren't a racist?

Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on February 01, 2017, 01:08:03 am
But then again, I rather suspected this sort of reaction from some.
                    /
:snob:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on February 01, 2017, 01:25:40 am
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?

Specifically, which polity?

But, assuming your answer is any: Hungary, for instance, has completely revamped its criminal code. Personal debt is now (with some limitations) inheritable. Totally unjust. And you are required by law to contribute specific amounts of money to your parents' upkeep, should they be unable to fend for themselves. Totally unjust.

This is how you get serfdom.

Exactly, that's a depressingly astute observation. We also have forced labour for the poor now: if you have no income, your only option is to participate in the "Public Works Programme", doing physical labour, often pointless or on some local potentate's property, in return for a monthly allowance of about 120 dollars. Since the government dropped the age limit of compulsory education from 18 to 16, some 40 thousand youngsters have joined the ranks (in a country of about ten million!).
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2017, 01:52:25 am
I'm not sure what's wrong with equal treatment under the law.

Nothing wrong with it. I wish some polity would try it one these days. But, as a matter of fact, the actual laws also matter, as kind people have been trying to explain to you.

Specifically, which statutes?

Specifically, which polity?

But, assuming your answer is any: Hungary, for instance, has completely revamped its criminal code. Personal debt is now (with some limitations) inheritable. Totally unjust. And you are required by law to contribute specific amounts of money to your parents' upkeep, should they be unable to fend for themselves. Totally unjust.

This is how you get serfdom.

Exactly, that's a depressingly astute observation. We also have forced labour for the poor now: if you have no income, your only option is to participate in the "Public Works Programme", doing physical labour, often pointless or on some local potentate's property, in return for a monthly allowance of about 120 dollars. Since the government dropped the age limit of compulsory education from 18 to 16, some 40 thousand youngsters have joined the ranks (in a country of about ten million!).

Jesus.   :eek:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 02:01:47 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 01, 2017, 02:08:42 am
This puts an article I read earlier today in a terrifying new light. Drawing parallels between Trump and the current Hungarian government under Orban.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

The parallels seem sound too. I disagree with some of the points the writer makes (namely that Trumpism isn't quite fascism -- no, but neither was any other fascist government save Mussolini's, as per Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism...) but the parallels are good, the conclusions are good, it's well written as far as I can tell.

Normally I'd say "...but let's not threadjack", but this thread seems to be going nowhere worthwhile unless xerosubaru starts making a hilarious fool of himself in public. :lulz:

preview edit: And there he goes! :lulz: What happened to this?

The misogyny, homophobia and whole-scale restriction of the rights women and LGBT's in these countries with these cultures presents a real threat which has to be acknowledged.

We need to protect ourselves from evul cultures! Unless they're only harming those filthy poor folks what steal from our gubment and leeech off of the societies, then it's okay.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2017, 02:15:20 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.

Hush, little Nazi.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on February 01, 2017, 02:23:17 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.

Why are you talking about me in the third person, mate? :)

I choose to live in Hungary, and this is most certainly not the way Hungarians chose to live. Government is infested with high-functioning sociopathic criminals. Seeing as the first thing they did after coming into power on the back of a successful populist campaign but most of all solid, nationwide dissatisfaction with the previous government (who were a bunch of corrupt losers, but nothing like the present cunts) was rewrite electoral law to ensure they get elected the next time, bought out or pushed out most of the media and spend massive amounts on lies and propaganda, I think it is fair to say that this is no longer a place where the majority decides the rules: unbridled greed for money and for power is the motivating force here.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on February 01, 2017, 02:26:08 am
This puts an article I read earlier today in a terrifying new light. Drawing parallels between Trump and the current Hungarian government under Orban.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

The parallels seem sound too. I disagree with some of the points the writer makes (namely that Trumpism isn't quite fascism -- no, but neither was any other fascist government save Mussolini's, as per Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism...) but the parallels are good, the conclusions are good, it's well written as far as I can tell.

Normally I'd say "...but let's not threadjack", but this thread seems to be going nowhere worthwhile unless xerosubaru starts making a hilarious fool of himself in public. :lulz:

preview edit: And there he goes! :lulz: What happened to this?

The misogyny, homophobia and whole-scale restriction of the rights women and LGBT's in these countries with these cultures presents a real threat which has to be acknowledged.

We need to protect ourselves from evul cultures! Unless they're only harming those filthy poor folks what steal from our gubment and leeech off of the societies, then it's okay.

Yeah. We've had our mini-Trump for seven years now. Sad, but true.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 02:56:22 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.

Why are you talking about me in the third person, mate? :)

I choose to live in Hungary, and this is most certainly not the way Hungarians chose to live. Government is infested with high-functioning sociopathic criminals. Seeing as the first thing they did after coming into power on the back of a successful populist campaign but most of all solid, nationwide dissatisfaction with the previous government (who were a bunch of corrupt losers, but nothing like the present cunts) was rewrite electoral law to ensure they get elected the next time, bought out or pushed out most of the media and spend massive amounts on lies and propaganda, I think it is fair to say that this is no longer a place where the majority decides the rules: unbridled greed for money and for power is the motivating force here.

Sorry about that. I didn't know that's where you lived?

What do people there think of Orban? (not saying you're not  a "people")
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 03:00:38 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.

V tb qbja ba fgenl qbtf va cnexvat ybgf sbe orre zbarl.


Really? Odd.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2017, 03:24:21 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.

V tb qbja ba fgenl qbtf va cnexvat ybgf sbe orre zbarl.


I am a Nazi pigfucker.

Really?  How odd.

You want to play fuckaround with each other's words, you little shit, we can do that all day.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Dildo Argentino on February 01, 2017, 03:42:19 am
I wouldn't choose to live in Hungary, however that's they way they decided to live.

It's up to them to choose to live differently insofar as they are able if they wish to.

Why are you talking about me in the third person, mate? :)

I choose to live in Hungary, and this is most certainly not the way Hungarians chose to live. Government is infested with high-functioning sociopathic criminals. Seeing as the first thing they did after coming into power on the back of a successful populist campaign but most of all solid, nationwide dissatisfaction with the previous government (who were a bunch of corrupt losers, but nothing like the present cunts) was rewrite electoral law to ensure they get elected the next time, bought out or pushed out most of the media and spend massive amounts on lies and propaganda, I think it is fair to say that this is no longer a place where the majority decides the rules: unbridled greed for money and for power is the motivating force here.

Sorry about that. I didn't know that's where you lived?

er... the fact that my examples were all Hungarian laws... never mind... nice of you to care, but don't be sorry: living dangerously in a fledling dictatorship is my idea of fun!

What do people there think of Orban? (not saying you're not  a "people")

Why do you ask? He has a minority that support him strongly: many of them are now vassals of his clan and simply support him out of fear for their livelihoods, while the rest are people who are stupid enough to be taken in by his extremely primitive xenophobic, chauvinistic propaganda. There is I think now a strong current of displeasure in the extremely passive and largely quite poor majority who don't even vote. There's a chance Mr Orbán's 'regime' will end spectacularly and abruptly in the next few years. The sad thing is, there isn't anyone even remotely qualified to head this country who's actually interested in the job. The single very small party in Parliament with anything like a reasonable programme has around 1.5 percent of the popular vote :)
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on February 01, 2017, 03:42:43 am
Forcing everyone to read xerosaburu's posts would be socially unjust.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 03:45:54 am
Forcing everyone to read xerosaburu's posts would be socially unjust.

That's undoubtedly true.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 01, 2017, 03:54:22 am
Forcing everyone to read xerosaburu's posts would be socially unjust.

I don't have anything to add. This sums this entire topic up.

There are, true, people who have good things to say on the subject. But xerosubaru's very presence makes me want to just smear vomit and feces on the walls to spite the little bastard. Anything else I want to type right now devolves into what "my kind" like to do to "his kind". I'll let him have his gruesome internet skullfucking from a distance for now, and reminisce about the places I've been where maintenance crews go in armed and with a coroner on speed dial.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on February 01, 2017, 04:13:49 am
disclaimer: I know this is pointless and I'm probably just encouraging the troll, but I can't help myself.

It's not racist to show that certain cultures have increased the crime rate in certain countries.

[1] Racism is about race, not culture.

[2] The misogyny, homophobia and whole-scale restriction of the rights women and LGBT's in these countries with these cultures presents a real threat which has to be acknowledged.

[3] That's not racism.

[4] But then again, I rather suspected this sort of reaction from some.

[5] It makes me wonder how anyone would be able to argue successfully for not being something.

[6] I'm thinking to myself here...How would someone prove that they weren't a racist?


1. Unless "culture" is shorthand for race, in which case you're not fooling anybody.

2. This sort of statement does two things. First, it declares that modern, liberal, Western multicultural democracy is fragile and unable to withstand the integration of people originating from places where such multiculturalism and tolerance is less common, thus exposing your view that multiculturalism is inherently weak and worthy of scorn. This is non-negotiable, as any objection from you on this point would, logically, implode your entire argument that these "cultures are dangerous". Second, it attempts to pin "culture" on a demographic of people such that individuals become inseparable from the traditions of their forebears with complete disregard for the fact, proven time and again (and again and again) historically that migrating peoples when joining a tolerant multicultural democratic society tend to retain their distinct cultural identity and traditions while discarding the less palatable traditions and forms of government to which you object. This has happened countless times in wave after wave of immigration to America, and there is no reason to expect it would stop now.

3. It is racism, because you are identifying groups of people from "somewhere else" as inseparable from their "barbaric ways". Since race itself is a genetic fiction, the only marker of distinction between different groups of people is culture. Thus, when you say a "culture" is dangerous, you are doing exactly the same thing they used to do when they were shit-talking the Irish or the Italians or African-Americans, except you're trying to skirt the issue by pretending you're not referring to "race". And you think the rest of us are the kind of idiots who won't see that.

4. As well you should. Because people who know what you're talking about and the context in which you are talking better than you do will tend to have predictable reactions to your nonsense, along the lines of "fuck off Nazi pigfucker". These people are, in fact, correct.

5 and 6. If you find yourself having to prove you're not a racist, you are generally already boned.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Sung Low on February 01, 2017, 05:42:10 am
Xenoturdburger is clearly one of those  alt-right spackbags.

Should anymore consideration be given?

As was said elsewhere, either he is a deluded 'edgelord', or he actually believes that nonsense. Either way...





Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2017, 06:10:36 am
Xenoturdburger is clearly one of those  alt-right spackbags.

Should anymore consideration be given?


Nope.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 01, 2017, 07:00:55 am
Xenoturdburger is clearly one of those  alt-right spackbags.

Should anymore consideration be given?


Nope.

I'd personally give consideration to the form of beating best suited to his ideological derangement, but that's mostly because minced fascist turns me on.

Whole and intact fascist is just wasted fun.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 04:55:06 pm
Forcing everyone to read xerosaburu's posts would be socially unjust.

Truth.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 04:56:49 pm

I'm thinking to myself here...How would someone prove that they weren't a racist?

Well, this thread explains that one, I guess.

I can't remember who it was who said this, but if you have to ask, you're probably racist. It's sort of like starting with "I'm not racist, but..."
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 05:00:51 pm
disclaimer: I know this is pointless and I'm probably just encouraging the troll, but I can't help myself.

It's not racist to show that certain cultures have increased the crime rate in certain countries.

[1] Racism is about race, not culture.

[2] The misogyny, homophobia and whole-scale restriction of the rights women and LGBT's in these countries with these cultures presents a real threat which has to be acknowledged.

[3] That's not racism.

[4] But then again, I rather suspected this sort of reaction from some.

[5] It makes me wonder how anyone would be able to argue successfully for not being something.

[6] I'm thinking to myself here...How would someone prove that they weren't a racist?


1. Unless "culture" is shorthand for race, in which case you're not fooling anybody.

2. This sort of statement does two things. First, it declares that modern, liberal, Western multicultural democracy is fragile and unable to withstand the integration of people originating from places where such multiculturalism and tolerance is less common, thus exposing your view that multiculturalism is inherently weak and worthy of scorn. This is non-negotiable, as any objection from you on this point would, logically, implode your entire argument that these "cultures are dangerous". Second, it attempts to pin "culture" on a demographic of people such that individuals become inseparable from the traditions of their forebears with complete disregard for the fact, proven time and again (and again and again) historically that migrating peoples when joining a tolerant multicultural democratic society tend to retain their distinct cultural identity and traditions while discarding the less palatable traditions and forms of government to which you object. This has happened countless times in wave after wave of immigration to America, and there is no reason to expect it would stop now.

3. It is racism, because you are identifying groups of people from "somewhere else" as inseparable from their "barbaric ways". Since race itself is a genetic fiction, the only marker of distinction between different groups of people is culture. Thus, when you say a "culture" is dangerous, you are doing exactly the same thing they used to do when they were shit-talking the Irish or the Italians or African-Americans, except you're trying to skirt the issue by pretending you're not referring to "race". And you think the rest of us are the kind of idiots who won't see that.

4. As well you should. Because people who know what you're talking about and the context in which you are talking better than you do will tend to have predictable reactions to your nonsense, along the lines of "fuck off Nazi pigfucker". These people are, in fact, correct.

5 and 6. If you find yourself having to prove you're not a racist, you are generally already boned.

Aaaaaannnnnd Vex nails it.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: LMNO on February 01, 2017, 05:02:53 pm
Hell, at this point, I'd be happy with, "just pretend and act as if you weren't racist."

Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 05:14:16 pm
Hell, at this point, I'd be happy with, "just pretend and act as if you weren't racist."

Yep.

Problem is, people don't think they have to pretend not to be racist anymore.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Junkenstein on February 01, 2017, 05:24:41 pm
Hell, at this point, I'd be happy with, "just pretend and act as if you weren't racist."

Yep.

Problem is, people don't think they have to pretend not to be racist anymore.

Notice how the apologists phrase it as "not needing to be politically correct in language use" anymore. When I hear this kind of line now I'm just assuming the speaker is racist, because something awful usually follows.

And what a shock, another racist clown with a yourube link for proof. I've not even looked at it but I'll bet a bollocking the source is utter shit.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 01, 2017, 06:21:17 pm
There's a good article on the topic of political correctness as the Enemy of the xenophobic right. Origins, what have you.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on February 01, 2017, 06:26:44 pm
Because Breivik went on about it, in the context of being a tool of the Cultural Marxist Elite, I had to write about the origins of both terms for my dissertation.

Yeah.  Barrel full of crazy.  CM is basically from the LaRouche organisation, by way of paleoconservative Christian paranoia.  Perhaps ironically, LaRouche himself spends a lot of time in Russia nowadays, talking with ex-KGB people.  But I'm sure that's not why Executive Intelligence Review looks like it was edited in the Kremlin or anything  :lulz:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 01, 2017, 06:31:05 pm
Did your own research turn up anything neat that the article I linked seems to be missing, at a skim?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on February 01, 2017, 06:33:42 pm
On a brief reading, it seems to have the bases covered.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 01, 2017, 06:56:20 pm
There's a good article on the topic of political correctness as the Enemy of the xenophobic right. Origins, what have you.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump

Good article. Lately when people criticize PC-ness in front of me I simply ask them what they mean by that term, and continue to ask questions about their answers until they lay bare their shifty reasons for being against it.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 07:41:23 pm
Hell, at this point, I'd be happy with, "just pretend and act as if you weren't racist."

Yep.

Problem is, people don't think they have to pretend not to be racist anymore.

Notice how the apologists phrase it as "not needing to be politically correct in language use" anymore. When I hear this kind of line now I'm just assuming the speaker is racist, because something awful usually follows.

And what a shock, another racist clown with a yourube link for proof. I've not even looked at it but I'll bet a bollocking the source is utter shit.

"Yourube" cracked me up. So perfect. :lol:

And yes, solid points, both.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 10:16:32 pm
It strikes me as rather lazy to just engage in name-calling every time someone disagrees with someone.

How do we know the person who just called someone a name isn't the embodiment of the epithet themselves?

We don't.


It reminds me of a story...

The year was 1948, as I recall, and Lyndon was running about 10 points behind, with only nine days to go…. He was sunk in despair. He was desperate. And it was just before noon on a Monday, they say, when he called his equally depressed campaign manager and instructed him to call a press conference at two or two-thirty (just after lunch on a slow news day) and accuse his high-riding opponent (the pig farmer) of having routine carnal knowledge of his barnyard sows, despite the pleas of his wife and children….

His campaign manager was shocked. “We can’t say that, Lyndon,” he said. “It’s not true.”

“Of course it’s not,” Johnson barked at him, “but let’s make the bastard deny it.”
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 11:11:57 pm
You see, though, you are not a political opponent, and all we have to judge you on is the content of your posts and what you offer in support of your assertions, which so far have been racist as fuck.

So there's that.

There is little point in reading or responding to you further, as the evidence so far indicates that you have nothing of intellectual value to offer.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2017, 11:12:41 pm
There's a good article on the topic of political correctness as the Enemy of the xenophobic right. Origins, what have you.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump

Good article. Lately when people criticize PC-ness in front of me I simply ask them what they mean by that term, and continue to ask questions about their answers until they lay bare their shifty reasons for being against it.

They always do, unless they get stuck in a loop.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 01, 2017, 11:15:00 pm
You see, though, you are not a political opponent, and all we have to judge you on is the content of your posts and what you offer in support of your assertions, which so far have been racist as fuck.

So there's that.

There is little point in reading or responding to you further, as the evidence so far indicates that you have nothing of intellectual value to offer.

So you feel completely justified.

Good for you.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 01, 2017, 11:18:31 pm
There's a good article on the topic of political correctness as the Enemy of the xenophobic right. Origins, what have you.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump

Good article. Lately when people criticize PC-ness in front of me I simply ask them what they mean by that term, and continue to ask questions about their answers until they lay bare their shifty reasons for being against it.

They always do, unless they get stuck in a loop.

It generally doesn't take very long either. I'm getting the impression most people who are against PC talk genuinely think the stuff they say which is un-PC is banal, but it always has some component of "otherness", be it a race thing or handicapped or whathaveyou. Basically a lot of people liked it when they felt justified saying whatever the fuck they wanted about anyone without any repercussions. I realize I'm not staying anything everyone here doesn't know already, except maybe xero, but... yeah.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 01, 2017, 11:20:36 pm
You see, though, you are not a political opponent, and all we have to judge you on is the content of your posts and what you offer in support of your assertions, which so far have been racist as fuck.

So there's that.

There is little point in reading or responding to you further, as the evidence so far indicates that you have nothing of intellectual value to offer.

So you feel completely justified.

Good for you.

Yo, actions have consequences... and right now the consequences for thought and speech like yours are sort of what we're trying to work against. We are all for open talk here, but if it seems like you are digging in your heels over this kind of behavior, don't be surprised if you end up not being very popular. 
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on February 01, 2017, 11:22:42 pm
You see, though, you are not a political opponent, and all we have to judge you on is the content of your posts and what you offer in support of your assertions, which so far have been racist as fuck.

So there's that.

There is little point in reading or responding to you further, as the evidence so far indicates that you have nothing of intellectual value to offer.

So you feel completely justified.

Good for you.

Huh, that's weird, you feel persecuted (which would require justification), yet you also are being treated as an equal under the rules of the board.

HUH.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on February 01, 2017, 11:35:32 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/T4V6N8e.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 02, 2017, 12:10:58 am
http://bfy.tw/9q2Z
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 12:16:40 am
Herp da derp.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on February 02, 2017, 12:27:07 am
I am too full of sympathy to click that link.  :cry:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 12:30:06 am
I am too full of sympathy to click that link.  :cry:

It's jive. You're missing nothing.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Freeky on February 02, 2017, 03:54:25 am
I am too full of sympathy to click that link.  :cry:

It's jive. You're missing nothing.

I dunno what jive means in this context, but xero is DEFINITELY throwing a big baby tantrum right now. :lulz:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 02, 2017, 05:15:32 am
I am too full of sympathy to click that link.  :cry:

It's jive. You're missing nothing.

I dunno what jive means in this context, but xero is DEFINITELY throwing a big baby tantrum right now. :lulz:

And aren't we all just very, very surprised?  :lol:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 02, 2017, 07:05:04 am
I am unsure why the alt-right shitbags think they'll get an appreciative audience here.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 02, 2017, 11:43:22 am
I'm not sure he's an alt-righter judging by a quick internet dig I did. I'd share but there's nothing incriminating and he's tied his username to his real life identity pretty well. I feel a little dirty for doing it.

I think he's genuinely ignorant of how he looks. Normally I'd want to smash him anyway but the digging I did makes him look like he wants to learn, which is not what I expected to turn up. In fact, that he engaged us at all makes me feel like he's interested in learning. As far back as the 13th other people told him it'd be best to dismiss anyone who says "racist" as unworthy of chatting with. Near as I can tell, he never said a word on that forum again, but he's engaged us. He doesn't seem like the trolling type, judging by his history, so I've got no fucking clue why he's acting the way he is here, but I don't think he initially came here in bad faith.

I'm going to give him a shot to get off his knuckles and act like a biped on that basis. Just the one shot, though.

So, man without a Subaru, lay it out clear and succinct, one at a time:

What do you not understand could be taken offensively?
Do you understand that the source you gave is bad?
Do you have any references from people who don't have an agenda to sell you (e.g., random people who live in the countries you are talking about)?
Do you have statistics?
Are you aware that ideologies are independent of intelligence, and that you are not immune to being co-opted by someone else's groupthink just because you're a member of isi-s.iqsociety.org?
Have you examined your beliefs and what you think you know is true in detail?
Have you checked the opposing side?
Have you validated the sources of them both?
Have you seen if either side has an agenda that might drive them to lie?
Have you looked at the data from independent non-agenda-driven sources and seen which side is closest to that data?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 01:11:11 pm
I would say run of the mill early stage libertarian, though it's close enough for horseshoes. And don't feel bad for snooping online, Google-fu is an old pastime here.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Faust on February 02, 2017, 01:33:25 pm
Yeah, I don't think he is racist. But pointing to the country thats recidivism makes it look like a star trek like paradise and quoting all the foreigners are coming is and raping the women is at best idiotic, at worst pushing a racist agenda.

Norway has had a bias against immigrants, it had before Anders shooting, regurgitating their insecurities and baseless xenophobias is silly.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 02, 2017, 01:39:42 pm
I can tell he's gone through some pretty wild changes in belief system from his past. I might be giving him a bit too much credit, though, by thinking hes fixable.

Either way, one more chance can't hurt. Either we get to bash a fascist or he stands the fuck up on his hind legs. Both options please me.

@Faust, yes, agreed. That's why I'm thinking a chance for him to re-examine where he's coming from is worthwhile. If he fucks up and goes all puppet-like, we feed him to the wolves. And the wolves are no doubt hungry, it looks as though they haven't been fed in almost three years.

If not, we get another functionally decent person. Seems like a win to me.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 02:19:55 pm
I flirted with libertarianism.

I smartened up. So can he.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 02, 2017, 05:18:42 pm
I don't have time to waste on idiots or bullshit. If you guys can train him to evaluate his sources and formulate a coherent argument, I might take him off ignore. Until then, he stays on the very short list of people whose posts I don't even bother reading.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 05:26:53 pm
I am unsure why the alt-right shitbags think they'll get an appreciative audience here.

We're FREETHINKERS dontcha know??
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Don Coyote on February 02, 2017, 07:25:51 pm
I am unsure why the alt-right shitbags think they'll get an appreciative audience here.

We're FREETHINKERS dontcha know??

Except when we disagree with their clearly logical and truthful stance, then we are brainwashed sheep people.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 02, 2017, 07:50:16 pm
I am unsure why the alt-right shitbags think they'll get an appreciative audience here.

We're FREETHINKERS dontcha know??

Except when we disagree with their clearly logical and truthful stance, then we are brainwashed sheep people.

Zactly.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: nobodyhome on February 02, 2017, 10:34:58 pm
I think I've made a mistake coming here.

I meant no ill will to anyone, but I looked this place up because I thought, perhaps weirdos would tolerate a discussion of any topic, but I don't think that's possible anywhere these days.

I think ideas, no matter what they may be can be discussed without a bunch of name-calling.

What I like to do, is throw out a controversial idea, one that is emotionally evocative and one that people often avoid addressing intellectually and then try looking at it from a lot of different vantage points. I liken it to putting an argument into a particle accelerator and letting it collide with another argument. You get a lot out of looking at the pieces.

Now you'll review the thread, you'll see how quickly the name-calling began.

I'm pretty thick-skinned, but I won't just play the name-calling game because it's boring. (not that I haven't in the past, but I'm pretty saturated with that nonsense and I'm ready to move on to other nonsense)

I can see that a lot of you are creative intelligent and no doubt well-meaning people, but only within certain borders. (Yes I have borders too and I'm not better than anyone else here...but I don't think I'm any worse either)

So anyway I'm not an important person for anyone to be concerned with, but I was PM'ed so I thought I'd reply in some way before I "flounced".

Cheers!
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Don Coyote on February 02, 2017, 10:48:28 pm
I think I've made a mistake coming here.

Yes
Quote
I meant no ill will to anyone, but I looked this place up because I thought, perhaps weirdos would tolerate a discussion of any topic, but I don't think that's possible anywhere these days.

Oh yes let's have a discussion on whatever garbage it was you came peddling that we totally haven't read before

Quote
I think ideas, no matter what they may be can be discussed without a bunch of name-calling.

It's almost like you either came here explicitly to get asspains or didn't even bother reading

Quote
What I like to do, is throw out a controversial idea, one that is emotionally evocative and one that people often avoid addressing intellectually and then try looking at it from a lot of different vantage points. I liken it to putting an argument into a particle accelerator and letting it collide with another argument. You get a lot out of looking at the pieces.

So, was this a
sociological experiment?

Quote
Now you'll review the thread, you'll see how quickly the name-calling began.

naw
Quote
I'm pretty thick-skinned, but I won't just play the name-calling game because it's boring. (not that I haven't in the past, but I'm pretty saturated with that nonsense and I'm ready to move on to other nonsense)
Sez you
 
Quote
I can see that a lot of you are creative intelligent and no doubt well-meaning people, but only within certain borders. (Yes I have borders too and I'm not better than anyone else here...but I don't think I'm any worse either)

is this the second half of a neg?

Quote
So anyway I'm not an important person for anyone to be concerned with, but I was PM'ed so I thought I'd reply in some way before I "flounced".

Cheers!

Bye Felcia
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: 00.dusk on February 02, 2017, 11:02:00 pm
What a grand disappointment. I gave him a chance to be a biped.

At least he didn't shit on the carpet on the way out.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 03, 2017, 12:02:17 am
I think I've made a mistake coming here.

I meant no ill will to anyone, but I looked this place up because I thought, perhaps weirdos would tolerate a discussion of any topic, but I don't think that's possible anywhere these days.

I think ideas, no matter what they may be can be discussed without a bunch of name-calling.

What I like to do, is throw out a controversial idea, one that is emotionally evocative and one that people often avoid addressing intellectually and then try looking at it from a lot of different vantage points. I liken it to putting an argument into a particle accelerator and letting it collide with another argument. You get a lot out of looking at the pieces.

Now you'll review the thread, you'll see how quickly the name-calling began.

I'm pretty thick-skinned, but I won't just play the name-calling game because it's boring. (not that I haven't in the past, but I'm pretty saturated with that nonsense and I'm ready to move on to other nonsense)

I can see that a lot of you are creative intelligent and no doubt well-meaning people, but only within certain borders. (Yes I have borders too and I'm not better than anyone else here...but I don't think I'm any worse either)

So anyway I'm not an important person for anyone to be concerned with, but I was PM'ed so I thought I'd reply in some way before I "flounced".

Cheers!

Good sir, this is page 9 of this thread. I would say everyone has been discussing this (currently hot button topic) with relative politeness. If you honestly think THIS was name calling, you clearly didn't do your research here. Shit get vicious, you need to wear your big-boys pants. You may think you are pretty thick skinned, but you need adamantium skin to truly get by here.  You certainly CAN discuss anything here, but don't expect people to love you for it.

I don't know if you noticed, but we're actually sliding down the slippery slope into a fascist regime, so please forgive everyone for not piling onboard your bus of "those cultures", because that's what got us here. Those sort of thoughts are the enemy of people who don't want to en up in a world which is setting up detention camps again. Feel freeo to espouse those opinions but please do not try to babysit our reactions.

Apart from places on the internet where you post anonymously, this is as good as you are goin to get.

Also, one last thing, no we do not all agree on everything here. However, this topic, the one you decided to poke at, this one we mostly do. So, points for bravery or ignorance, mmmmmkay?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 03, 2017, 12:24:04 am

What I like to do, is throw out a controversial idea, one that is emotionally evocative and one that people often avoid addressing intellectually and then try looking at it from a lot of different vantage points. I liken it to putting an argument into a particle accelerator and letting it collide with another argument. You get a lot out of looking at the pieces.

So, was this a
sociological experiment?


Bingo.

You could time your toast by these people.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 03, 2017, 12:30:30 am
I think I've made a mistake coming here.

I meant no ill will to anyone, but I looked this place up because I thought, perhaps weirdos would tolerate a discussion of any topic, but I don't think that's possible anywhere these days.

I think ideas, no matter what they may be can be discussed without a bunch of name-calling.

What I like to do, is throw out a controversial idea, one that is emotionally evocative and one that people often avoid addressing intellectually and then try looking at it from a lot of different vantage points. I liken it to putting an argument into a particle accelerator and letting it collide with another argument. You get a lot out of looking at the pieces.

Now you'll review the thread, you'll see how quickly the name-calling began.

I'm pretty thick-skinned, but I won't just play the name-calling game because it's boring. (not that I haven't in the past, but I'm pretty saturated with that nonsense and I'm ready to move on to other nonsense)

I can see that a lot of you are creative intelligent and no doubt well-meaning people, but only within certain borders. (Yes I have borders too and I'm not better than anyone else here...but I don't think I'm any worse either)

So anyway I'm not an important person for anyone to be concerned with, but I was PM'ed so I thought I'd reply in some way before I "flounced".

Cheers!

Good sir, this is page 9 of this thread. I would say everyone has been discussing this (currently hot button topic) with relative politeness. If you honestly think THIS was name calling, you clearly didn't do your research here. Shit get vicious, you need to wear your big-boys pants. You may think you are pretty thick skinned, but you need adamantium skin to truly get by here.  You certainly CAN discuss anything here, but don't expect people to love you for it.

I don't know if you noticed, but we're actually sliding down the slippery slope into a fascist regime, so please forgive everyone for not piling onboard your bus of "those cultures", because that's what got us here. Those sort of thoughts are the enemy of people who don't want to en up in a world which is setting up detention camps again. Feel freeo to espouse those opinions but please do not try to babysit our reactions.

Apart from places on the internet where you post anonymously, this is as good as you are goin to get.

Also, one last thing, no we do not all agree on everything here. However, this topic, the one you decided to poke at, this one we mostly do. So, points for bravery or ignorance, mmmmmkay?

He's a rebel, though. A freethinker. Asking the hard questions, the questions that nobody asks except for absolutely every racist ever to find a discussion forum. I don't know how anybody could mistake him for a racist when he is just secretly playing devil's advocate, which is of course a completely mature and intellectually honest way to approach people you respect.

I mean, GOSH.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on February 03, 2017, 12:34:32 am
I think I've made a mistake coming here.

You wouldn't be the first. The first time I came here my exact thoughts were: CHRIST, WHAT A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES.

Quote
I meant no ill will to anyone, but I looked this place up because I thought, perhaps weirdos would tolerate a discussion of any topic, but I don't think that's possible anywhere these days.

I, for one, was waiting for a response to the many questions and other posts made in response to your thread. You responded with extreme glibness.

A. A wise spag once said, "Glibness isn't the same cleverness."
B. It didn't answer the god damned questions posed and wasted my time. Nobody here knows you, and generally the first interaction is basically going to just be repeated over and over until it doesn't.

Quote
What I like to do, is throw out a controversial idea, one that is emotionally evocative and one that people often avoid addressing intellectually and then try looking at it from a lot of different vantage points. I liken it to putting an argument into a particle accelerator and letting it collide with another argument. You get a lot out of looking at the pieces.

Yeah, I think YOU are the one getting emotional. That's why you are ready to flounce. You think this treatment is personal. We are miserable bastards to EACH OTHER. Deep, seething hatred for fellow Discordians paints the walls of this place.

Also, it turns out that when people get real heated because they are judged solely on the ideas they present as well as their arguments for them, (I think) their truer nature makes itself known. Discordia is like a mirror. Well, PD Discordia is, IMO. All the bullshit you experience whenever you are the Smartest Guy In The Room is totally absent here. There's a lot of very clever people here ready to eat each other's faces off, is what I am trying to say.

Quote
Now you'll review the thread, you'll see how quickly the name-calling began.

Yeah. That's a damned shame.

Quote
I'm pretty thick-skinned, but I won't just play the name-calling game because it's boring. (not that I haven't in the past, but I'm pretty saturated with that nonsense and I'm ready to move on to other nonsense)
We'll tell you when you're saturated.
       /
 :rush:
Quote

I can see that a lot of you are creative intelligent and no doubt well-meaning people, but only within certain borders. (Yes I have borders too and I'm not better than anyone else here...but I don't think I'm any worse either)

The first part, totally. The second part, ehhhh.

Quote
So anyway I'm not an important person for anyone to be concerned with, but I was PM'ed so I thought I'd reply in some way before I "flounced".

Cheers!

Everybody is important.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Salty on February 03, 2017, 12:39:22 am
 :notnice:
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 03, 2017, 12:42:46 am
Let me just add that there are many constructive approaches to playing Devil's Advocate.

This was not one.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on February 03, 2017, 02:04:02 am
It's just that there are four common positions that, when you see them, are always a warning sign of racism:
- "People from other places are unevolved and/or violent, and allowing them to come here will screw up our equilibrium."
- "Everyone gets what they deserve and/or work for in life, as evidenced by exceptions A, B, and C to the general rule."
- "Enforcing equality for some at the expense of privilege for others is unjust/immoral."
- "Human nature is such that mingling cultures/races/religions will never work out in the long term."

If a person takes one or maybe two of these positions, there is a chance that they are simply mistaken, uneducated, or have never been exposed to the real world. Which is why you got some amount of engagement when you first started. But when it becomes clear that a person has accepted three or four of these as gospel, then there is virtually no chance that the person is innocently ignorant. No one develops a worldview based on these pillars without being exposed to plenty of rational, well-evidenced arguments and historical experiences to the contrary. At that point, it becomes clear you have an agenda that we are not interested in, not only because it is wrong, but because at this point it is dreadfully repetitive and boring. Also, the "devil's advocate" defense is laughable at this point.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 03, 2017, 03:22:52 am
which guy was this, again?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on February 03, 2017, 03:29:55 am
which guy was this, again?
same one as always. even if it was in another skinbag.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on February 03, 2017, 09:18:34 am
which guy was this, again?

The one didn't like you poking fun at his Youtube link (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,38007.msg1404165.html#msg1404165).
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 03, 2017, 09:44:16 am
which guy was this, again?

The one didn't like you poking fun at his Youtube link (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,38007.msg1404165.html#msg1404165).

Ron Paul?  China wossname?  The other one?

It's all a blur.  It's one low-rent, "alt-right" dirtbag after another.  There's no end to it.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Cain on February 03, 2017, 10:08:56 am
The other one, xenosaburu or whatever the name was.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on February 03, 2017, 03:59:44 pm

When I think of social justice, I think of it in the general sense. That all people should be allowed equal treatment under the law, whether these be considered "just laws" or "unjust laws". If all people are treated the same the the laws of the land, then in my view "social justice" has taken place.


Then you do not believe in social justice and are in fact a shitlord.


Do I get points for this flounce, since I was the first one to call names in this thread?
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: LMNO on February 03, 2017, 04:24:13 pm
Because I'm That GuyTM, I went back and looked.

OP didn't have any clarity to the question.

The board followed up with at least 13 specific examples.

Only then did he say, "well, let's define our terms".

Three more examples using those terms.

Then someone pointed out that the definition he gave excludes the generally accepted definition of social justice, and suggested he was a shitlord.

The thread continued as one expects it would, with none of the examples being addressed, and varying degrees of posterior damage.

Then, a Flounce post about how he likes throwing out controversial topics and discussing them, without acknowledging that none of the point we were willing to discuss were addressed by him.

If he was still around, I'd point as a good example of the right way to do this Nigel's thread about race.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 03, 2017, 04:35:32 pm
Because I'm That GuyTM, I went back and looked.

OP didn't have any clarity to the question.

The board followed up with at least 13 specific examples.

Only then did he say, "well, let's define our terms".

Three more examples using those terms.

Then someone pointed out that the definition he gave excludes the generally accepted definition of social justice, and suggested he was a shitlord.

The thread continued as one expects it would, with none of the examples being addressed, and varying degrees of posterior damage.

Then, a Flounce post about how he likes throwing out controversial topics and discussing them, without acknowledging that none of the point we were willing to discuss were addressed by him.

If he was still around, I'd point as a good example of the right way to do this Nigel's thread about race.

Accurate summary.

He appears to have come here wanting validation for his bad ideas. It's always telling when they are clearly trying to lead you down a path and throw a wobbler if you won't follow them. Since he couldn't get validation, he took his ball and went home.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 03, 2017, 04:36:32 pm
Which is a relief for everyone, given that his ball was made of shit and nobody wanted to touch it.
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 03, 2017, 05:12:27 pm
I'm sure the next libertarian racist will be MUCH more interesting!
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 03, 2017, 05:37:27 pm
I'm sure the next libertarian racist will be MUCH more interesting!

For sure!

(http://www.recoveringgrace.org/media/cookie-cutter-people27.jpg)
Title: Re: Post your examples of socially unjust laws which exist where you live
Post by: Hoopla! on February 03, 2017, 05:40:34 pm
 :lol: