Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 01:26:18 am

Title: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 01:26:18 am
Who y'all got? 

My money is on Nancy!

She don't fuck around nor suffer any whippersnappers!
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 12, 2019, 01:29:24 am
:boring:
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 01:41:45 am
Okay, I'm actually serious.  What is everyone's take on this feud that seems to be brewing between the liberal wing and blue dog wing?  Will this be the Dems, yet again, shooting themselves in the foot in a Presidential election?  I think yes. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 12, 2019, 02:18:51 am
I'm running for local office and somehow YOU'RE the boring one.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 02:26:21 am
Really?  Cool!  What are you running for? 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on July 12, 2019, 02:29:35 am
I'm running for local office and somehow YOU'RE the boring one.
His capacity to induce boredom cannot be natural.  He must have cultivated it, at great length and with much effort.
I'd study it, but it's too boring.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Cain on July 12, 2019, 08:56:31 am
That Pelosi has the party base, whereas they do not and so with the very possible exception of AoC (who can use her national profile and twitter presence as a kind of soft power counter) they're all screwed.

But no surprises there. Pelosi is a hippie-puncher by nature and inclination.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 12, 2019, 01:40:25 pm
That Pelosi has the party base, whereas they do not and so with the very possible exception of AoC (who can use her national profile and twitter presence as a kind of soft power counter) they're all screwed.

But no surprises there. Pelosi is a hippie-puncher by nature and inclination.

Pelosi needs to go as much as McConnell.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Cain on July 12, 2019, 03:22:55 pm
No argument from me on that. Schumer too.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: LMNO on July 12, 2019, 03:28:18 pm
I read something that suggested it was a generational thing.  The old Dems remember when things were really progressing in the 70s, and when Reagan came in and demolished the party for decades, they saw it as pushback for "going too far to the left," and have spent the rest of their careers making sure that doesn't happen again... with the result that the GOP could do whatever the hell it wanted, and the Dems "tried to remain civil in the center".

The newer Dems have lived their entire lives seeing the GOP as tyrannical assholes while the Democrats cower in fear and making endless concessions to cruelty.  They have never known civility in federal politics, and now they're all, "fuck that".
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 12, 2019, 03:28:23 pm
Yep. It's a bit mindboggling how out of touch establishment Dems are.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 05:17:26 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 12, 2019, 06:07:50 pm
RWHN: with all due respect, you have lost your fucking mind.

The neoliberal half of the Dem Party has no spine and kowtows to the merest whim of people who would gun them down in public if they thought they could get away with it, all so they can look like the good guys and appeal to the centrists. ďI want to get something done!Ē They scream, while ignoring that the only things theyíll be allowed to do is continuing the inexorable painting of a swastika on the American Flag.

Newsflash, fuckface, Pelosiís geriatric, weak-sister groupies arenít going to get shit done either. The pushback is too strong and the opposition is playing the pigeon strategy. Schumer isnít going to throw the fuck down over basic human rights considering WE HAVE CHILDREN BEING SENT TO DIE IN CAGES and he has the skeletal strength of a deep sea fish after soaking in a vat of hydrazine for a fucking decade, STILL. Whatís he going to do when it turns to black people, or LGBT groups? ďBut thatís illegal, mister supreme leader!Ē

If we donít get some steel-boned motherfuckers up there weíll continue to watch our ďleft wingĒ make weak gestures of opposition and mumbling statements of gratitude to goosestepping fascists until the day the camps open for political opposition.

Tiptoeing toward a better future doesnít work when youíre faced with people who have no empathy, big boots, and a gun in hand. You fucking sprint for it and hope you make it to cover before you get a hole blown out of you. Same goddamn principle here.

Pay the fuck attention to whatís going on. You donít placate a fucking genocidal sociopath! You donít make incremental moves when youíre on a treadmill set to high speed, either. Pelosi doesnít have the goddamn RABIES necessary to make the right decisions here and if you canít see that, I have no fucking clue what the hell you learned from your time in these parts.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 12, 2019, 07:19:48 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 12, 2019, 07:22:45 pm
RWHN: with all due respect, you have lost your fucking mind.

The neoliberal half of the Dem Party has no spine and kowtows to the merest whim of people who would gun them down in public if they thought they could get away with it, all so they can look like the good guys and appeal to the centrists. ďI want to get something done!Ē They scream, while ignoring that the only things theyíll be allowed to do is continuing the inexorable painting of a swastika on the American Flag.

Newsflash, fuckface, Pelosiís geriatric, weak-sister groupies arenít going to get shit done either. The pushback is too strong and the opposition is playing the pigeon strategy. Schumer isnít going to throw the fuck down over basic human rights considering WE HAVE CHILDREN BEING SENT TO DIE IN CAGES and he has the skeletal strength of a deep sea fish after soaking in a vat of hydrazine for a fucking decade, STILL. Whatís he going to do when it turns to black people, or LGBT groups? ďBut thatís illegal, mister supreme leader!Ē

If we donít get some steel-boned motherfuckers up there weíll continue to watch our ďleft wingĒ make weak gestures of opposition and mumbling statements of gratitude to goosestepping fascists until the day the camps open for political opposition.

Tiptoeing toward a better future doesnít work when youíre faced with people who have no empathy, big boots, and a gun in hand. You fucking sprint for it and hope you make it to cover before you get a hole blown out of you. Same goddamn principle here.

Pay the fuck attention to whatís going on. You donít placate a fucking genocidal sociopath! You donít make incremental moves when youíre on a treadmill set to high speed, either. Pelosi doesnít have the goddamn RABIES necessary to make the right decisions here and if you canít see that, I have no fucking clue what the hell you learned from your time in these parts.

This, plus the fact that we're pretty much out of time for action on not having human civilization collapse due to climate change
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 08:31:15 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 12, 2019, 08:34:34 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

Or, and hear me out, we can stop thinking of politics in terms of stopping the other side and actually vote on the basis of being an informed electorate. Yeah, I know, but the people who sit out the vote are the ones thinking like this.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 08:38:40 pm
RWHN: with all due respect, you have lost your fucking mind.

The neoliberal half of the Dem Party has no spine and kowtows to the merest whim of people who would gun them down in public if they thought they could get away with it, all so they can look like the good guys and appeal to the centrists. ďI want to get something done!Ē They scream, while ignoring that the only things theyíll be allowed to do is continuing the inexorable painting of a swastika on the American Flag.

Newsflash, fuckface, Pelosiís geriatric, weak-sister groupies arenít going to get shit done either. The pushback is too strong and the opposition is playing the pigeon strategy. Schumer isnít going to throw the fuck down over basic human rights considering WE HAVE CHILDREN BEING SENT TO DIE IN CAGES and he has the skeletal strength of a deep sea fish after soaking in a vat of hydrazine for a fucking decade, STILL. Whatís he going to do when it turns to black people, or LGBT groups? ďBut thatís illegal, mister supreme leader!Ē

If we donít get some steel-boned motherfuckers up there weíll continue to watch our ďleft wingĒ make weak gestures of opposition and mumbling statements of gratitude to goosestepping fascists until the day the camps open for political opposition.

Tiptoeing toward a better future doesnít work when youíre faced with people who have no empathy, big boots, and a gun in hand. You fucking sprint for it and hope you make it to cover before you get a hole blown out of you. Same goddamn principle here.

Pay the fuck attention to whatís going on. You donít placate a fucking genocidal sociopath! You donít make incremental moves when youíre on a treadmill set to high speed, either. Pelosi doesnít have the goddamn RABIES necessary to make the right decisions here and if you canít see that, I have no fucking clue what the hell you learned from your time in these parts.

Of course you don't placate Trump.  You get him out of office and deny him a second term.  That's the quickest way to deal with and get rid of the atrocities he's imposing across our country.  But a circular firing squad is not going to get that job done. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 08:41:12 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

Or, and hear me out, we can stop thinking of politics in terms of stopping the other side and actually vote on the basis of being an informed electorate. Yeah, I know, but the people who sit out the vote are the ones thinking like this.

That's the ideal of course, and should absolutely be a goal to strive for.  But that's not going to happen between now and election day.  You and I both know that.  Trump needs to go.  Like it or not, that's not happening via the AOC wing, that's going to happen via Pelosi & Biden (or Harris). 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 12, 2019, 08:48:14 pm
Iím not an idiot. Of course we get Baby Benito out of office first, at any costs. And of course purity testing isnít going to fucking help there.

But that doesnít mean you shouldnít push further left where things are less crucial, even if youíll lose. Fact: thatís how the GOP became the New American Nazi Party, they kept pushing right. A certain, large, fraction of the base will vote GOP even if the candidate admitted to eating babies. They exert influence on their friends. And of course thereís no viable third party options at all.

Also, letís remember that ďcenter leftĒ in American politics is ďsolid rightĒ everywhere else. There is no balance, just a freight train choo-chooing toward the abyss. The ďleftĒ is dead weight the train is dragging along, not an actual counter-force. And so long as we push for moderation and centrist policies, that will remain the case.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 12, 2019, 08:58:59 pm
Iím not an idiot. Of course we get Baby Benito out of office first, at any costs. And of course purity testing isnít going to fucking help there.

That was exactly my point.

Quote
But that doesnít mean you shouldnít push further left where things are less crucial, even if youíll lose. Fact: thatís how the GOP became the New American Nazi Party, they kept pushing right. A certain, large, fraction of the base will vote GOP even if the candidate admitted to eating babies. They exert influence on their friends. And of course thereís no viable third party options at all.

Sure, the problem is that the AOC plank doesn't seem to understand this. They want to swing for the fences on everything.

Quote
Also, letís remember that ďcenter leftĒ in American politics is ďsolid rightĒ everywhere else. There is no balance, just a freight train choo-chooing toward the abyss. The ďleftĒ is dead weight the train is dragging along, not an actual counter-force. And so long as we push for moderation and centrist policies, that will remain the case.

It's not about pushing for moderation (even though I am a moderate myself), it's about pragmatism. I mean, shit, while I'm to the right of many D's on a lot of things, I'm way to the left of them on guns.  If AOC came out tomorrow to propose a gun ban and repealing the 2nd amendment, I'd be right there supporting her! 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: The Johnny on July 12, 2019, 09:09:07 pm

Im sure that shuffling around chairs on the Titanic is the solution, you guys just need to do it faster  :)

But seriously, moderates are such cancer on your democracy, all while the right is tailoring their brownshirts.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2019, 04:32:22 am
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

Or, and hear me out, we can stop thinking of politics in terms of stopping the other side and actually vote on the basis of being an informed electorate. Yeah, I know, but the people who sit out the vote are the ones thinking like this.

That's the ideal of course, and should absolutely be a goal to strive for.  But that's not going to happen between now and election day.  You and I both know that.  Trump needs to go.  Like it or not, that's not happening via the AOC wing, that's going to happen via Pelosi & Biden (or Harris).

I can't disagree more.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2019, 04:32:54 am

Im sure that shuffling around chairs on the Titanic is the solution, you guys just need to do it faster  :)

But seriously, moderates are such cancer on your democracy, all while the right is tailoring their brownshirts.

I can't agree more
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2019, 04:35:41 am
Iím not an idiot. Of course we get Baby Benito out of office first, at any costs. And of course purity testing isnít going to fucking help there.

That was exactly my point.

Quote
But that doesnít mean you shouldnít push further left where things are less crucial, even if youíll lose. Fact: thatís how the GOP became the New American Nazi Party, they kept pushing right. A certain, large, fraction of the base will vote GOP even if the candidate admitted to eating babies. They exert influence on their friends. And of course thereís no viable third party options at all.

Sure, the problem is that the AOC plank doesn't seem to understand this. They want to swing for the fences on everything.

Quote
Also, letís remember that ďcenter leftĒ in American politics is ďsolid rightĒ everywhere else. There is no balance, just a freight train choo-chooing toward the abyss. The ďleftĒ is dead weight the train is dragging along, not an actual counter-force. And so long as we push for moderation and centrist policies, that will remain the case.

It's not about pushing for moderation (even though I am a moderate myself), it's about pragmatism. I mean, shit, while I'm to the right of many D's on a lot of things, I'm way to the left of them on guns.  If AOC came out tomorrow to propose a gun ban and repealing the 2nd amendment, I'd be right there supporting her!

Gun bans aren't left, they're liberal centrism. Leftists want an armed proletariat. Sometimes up to and including tanks.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 13, 2019, 05:11:08 am
Extremely wrong, anti-gun leftists are the norm these days. Tankies arenít popular lately, what with all that latent anti-Semitism lurking in modern Stalinism. Iím one of the anti-gun leftists out there, and Iím actually a firearms enthusiast.

I donít have the focus right now to give you a rundown of the theorizing behind it, but itís a utopian communist idea in terms of where it comes from. Anarchists like their guns a lot, and other communists tend to either accept them as necessary or outright demand arming everyone in the world.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2019, 05:11:58 am

Im sure that shuffling around chairs on the Titanic is the solution, you guys just need to do it faster  :)

But seriously, moderates are such cancer on your democracy, all while the right is tailoring their brownshirts.

This.  Right here.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2019, 05:12:43 am
Extremely wrong, anti-gun leftists are the norm these days. Tankies arenít popular lately, what with all that latent anti-Semitism lurking in modern Stalinism. Iím one of the anti-gun leftists out there, and Iím actually a firearms enthusiast.

I donít have the focus right now to give you a rundown of the theorizing behind it, but itís a utopian communist idea in terms of where it comes from. Anarchists like their guns a lot, and other communists tend to either accept them as necessary or outright demand arming everyone in the world.

I am a leftist and I support the notion of everyone getting a gun.

Because there are Nazis around.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2019, 08:39:39 am
Extremely wrong, anti-gun leftists are the norm these days. Tankies arenít popular lately, what with all that latent anti-Semitism lurking in modern Stalinism. Iím one of the anti-gun leftists out there, and Iím actually a firearms enthusiast.

I donít have the focus right now to give you a rundown of the theorizing behind it, but itís a utopian communist idea in terms of where it comes from. Anarchists like their guns a lot, and other communists tend to either accept them as necessary or outright demand arming everyone in the world.

"Sometimes up to and including tanks" should not be construed as meaning that all leftists are Stalinists. If that's what you think I mean, then I can understand how you can reply with the seemingly paradoxical statement that you're an anti-gun leftist gun enthusiast.

I'm not a gun enthusiast. I don't have a gun. I've never found the need for one. It's kinda like how I'm not a car enthusiast because I generally rely on public transportation.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2019, 08:42:31 am
Even if I found the need to have a gun, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. I'd be bummed out that I lived in a shitty society that necessitated having a gun.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 13, 2019, 11:35:35 am
Iím a firearms enthusiast from an engineering standpoint. It soothes the little monkey in my head that likes to play with puzzle boxes and figure out efficient solutions to hard problems.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Pergamos on July 13, 2019, 09:06:58 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

It's important to look at the popularity of policy in places like that.  A lot of what AOC supports that Pelosi doesn't is directly beneficial to the working class and a lot of those center right, or even full right wing, working class voters support them.  A progressive has a better chance than a centrist in plenty of conservative districts.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Pergamos on July 13, 2019, 09:08:18 pm
RWHN: with all due respect, you have lost your fucking mind.

The neoliberal half of the Dem Party has no spine and kowtows to the merest whim of people who would gun them down in public if they thought they could get away with it, all so they can look like the good guys and appeal to the centrists. ďI want to get something done!Ē They scream, while ignoring that the only things theyíll be allowed to do is continuing the inexorable painting of a swastika on the American Flag.

Newsflash, fuckface, Pelosiís geriatric, weak-sister groupies arenít going to get shit done either. The pushback is too strong and the opposition is playing the pigeon strategy. Schumer isnít going to throw the fuck down over basic human rights considering WE HAVE CHILDREN BEING SENT TO DIE IN CAGES and he has the skeletal strength of a deep sea fish after soaking in a vat of hydrazine for a fucking decade, STILL. Whatís he going to do when it turns to black people, or LGBT groups? ďBut thatís illegal, mister supreme leader!Ē

If we donít get some steel-boned motherfuckers up there weíll continue to watch our ďleft wingĒ make weak gestures of opposition and mumbling statements of gratitude to goosestepping fascists until the day the camps open for political opposition.

Tiptoeing toward a better future doesnít work when youíre faced with people who have no empathy, big boots, and a gun in hand. You fucking sprint for it and hope you make it to cover before you get a hole blown out of you. Same goddamn principle here.

Pay the fuck attention to whatís going on. You donít placate a fucking genocidal sociopath! You donít make incremental moves when youíre on a treadmill set to high speed, either. Pelosi doesnít have the goddamn RABIES necessary to make the right decisions here and if you canít see that, I have no fucking clue what the hell you learned from your time in these parts.

Of course you don't placate Trump.  You get him out of office and deny him a second term.  That's the quickest way to deal with and get rid of the atrocities he's imposing across our country.  But a circular firing squad is not going to get that job done.

Very true.  Pelosi and the centrists are doing a LOT of damage when they attack the left wing of the party.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 13, 2019, 10:35:31 pm
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

It's important to look at the popularity of policy in places like that.  A lot of what AOC supports that Pelosi doesn't is directly beneficial to the working class and a lot of those center right, or even full right wing, working class voters support them.  A progressive has a better chance than a centrist in plenty of conservative districts.

 :eek: Are you serious with that?  You're talking about tea-party conservatives right there the Fox News money demo. Hell, no way, they are going to support left wing policies, not from a left wing politician.  I mean, shit, I think they are probably nutzo enough to support left wing policies if by some miracle they were being touted by Ted Cruz or one of their own. But fuck no, are they going to line up behind a left wing candidate. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Don Coyote on July 13, 2019, 11:33:34 pm
Even if I found the need to have a gun, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. I'd be bummed out that I lived in a shitty society that necessitated having a gun.

Big fucking mood

Also why the fuck are yall entertaining drugs are bad mkay shitty suit mcshutup and go back to your shitty maine with your shit ass smaller than my desert podunk hometown capital?
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 14, 2019, 12:00:22 am
:eek: Are you serious with that?  You're talking about tea-party conservatives right there the Fox News money demo. Hell, no way, they are going to support left wing policies, not from a left wing politician.  I mean, shit, I think they are probably nutzo enough to support left wing policies if by some miracle they were being touted by Ted Cruz or one of their own. But fuck no, are they going to line up behind a left wing candidate.

God it's like you were in a coma for all of 2016
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 14, 2019, 12:33:09 am
Itís like heís been in a coma since 2013 really. You could have just hit pause when he left and unpaused him when he returned, brandishing lukewarm takes as white hot truth and engaging in the ancient art of trolling so stale it is little more than a distinctive set of mold stains.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 14, 2019, 02:27:38 am
:eek: Are you serious with that?  You're talking about tea-party conservatives right there the Fox News money demo. Hell, no way, they are going to support left wing policies, not from a left wing politician.  I mean, shit, I think they are probably nutzo enough to support left wing policies if by some miracle they were being touted by Ted Cruz or one of their own. But fuck no, are they going to line up behind a left wing candidate.

God it's like you were in a coma for all of 2016

I was running a political campaign for all of 2016. 

But c'mon you guys have seen these Trump supporters right?  I mean, I will grant you, an uber-liberal candidate, with the right personality, could pick off some center-right folks who actually have had their ethical boundaries crossed with Trump.  But when you're saying they could also win over the right wing, nah, that's not gonna happen.  Biden, isn't going to win over the right wing.  But you don't need to, in the short term, to get rid of Trump.  You need someone who can win Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.  But ya gotta focus, and put aside the identity politics. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 14, 2019, 02:58:06 am
The second you start saying shit about identity politics youíve fallen off the fucking bus altogether. Realize that identity politics is a way of saying actual peopleís immutable natures are political. Identity politics is literally recognizing these people exist and their lives matter.

People like me.

So youíre saying we need to stop protecting people who are having their existences politicized, their lives torn down around them, so the privileged white folks donít feel bad. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you high and mighty sack of fucking shit.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 14, 2019, 03:03:34 am
How the fuck do you whine about identity politics right now if you arenít a shitty person? Iím pretty sure it makes you a shitty person by default currently because the default opposition to it is cryptofascist centrist shitloaves. You get their poop and pond scum on you by simple fact you say that shit.

But then again RWHN wants a security apparatus aimed at children to stop the evils of drug use, I should have expected him to be a fucking jackboot licker.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 14, 2019, 03:22:54 am
The second you start saying shit about identity politics youíve fallen off the fucking bus altogether. Realize that identity politics is a way of saying actual peopleís immutable natures are political. Identity politics is literally recognizing these people exist and their lives matter.

People like me.

So youíre saying we need to stop protecting people who are having their existences politicized, their lives torn down around them, so the privileged white folks donít feel bad. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you high and mighty sack of fucking shit.

No, not at all. Iím saying put aside litmus tests, get the orange buffoon out of office. If he gets another 4 years, shitís gonna get worse.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 14, 2019, 03:57:42 am
The second you start saying shit about identity politics youíve fallen off the fucking bus altogether. Realize that identity politics is a way of saying actual peopleís immutable natures are political. Identity politics is literally recognizing these people exist and their lives matter.

People like me.

So youíre saying we need to stop protecting people who are having their existences politicized, their lives torn down around them, so the privileged white folks donít feel bad. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you high and mighty sack of fucking shit.

No, not at all. Iím saying put aside litmus tests, get the orange buffoon out of office. If he gets another 4 years, shitís gonna get worse.

He will get another 4 years if we put up a mealy mouthed centrist. Believe me, I've talked to my insane mother in law from Dallas, I know what people hate about the liberals and it isn't the liberalness, it's the spineless "I deserve this" bullshit. AOC's wing has balls. That's what people want.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: chaotic neutral observer on July 14, 2019, 05:43:12 am
Let's see if I understand this (keeping in mind that my understanding of American psychology is based on movies, television, and randos on the internet, and that I have been having some difficulty following this conversation.)

Americans despise both weakness, and the appearance of weakness.
Americans hate to lose, and love to win; and it isn't even enough to win, the other side must lose.

A candidate who advocates compromise, and says things like "let's everybody get along", is not likely to be received well, regardless of their actual political alignment or platform, because a willingness to compromise, or to meet the other side half-way, will be perceived as weakness, or as letting the other guys "win".

It isn't enough for the successful candidate to present a platform that a majority of the population can see as being to their benefit, the candidate must also demonstrate (the appearance of) strength, conviction, and an unwillingness to compromise.  This may even matter more than the political alignment of the candidate.  Bonus points if the candidate promises to "stick it to The Man" (whether the candidate is in bed with The Man or not).
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 14, 2019, 05:54:15 am
Thatís... pretty accurate. Itís more accurate for the GOP than the Dems, but... surprisingly good fit.

The key is that the Dems are more interested in empathy than utter destruction of the enemy.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 14, 2019, 05:58:16 am
I should clarify, empathy doesnít preclude strength for the left wing in the US. Itís more, ďI have so much strength I can afford to use it to help others and not be hurt by it.Ē The GOP, totally opposite deal.

The Dems tend to accept some weakness in their candidates, but one weakness that is hemorrhaging confidence in the party is weakness of character. They talk a big game then they bow to their masters (the GOP, by way of Pavlov and Overton) anyway. At this point, ďactually doing somethingĒ is the winning strategy for the left, and the center left doesnít do that.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 14, 2019, 12:22:09 pm
ACA was a center-left policy.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: The Johnny on July 14, 2019, 02:38:51 pm

I've heard commented that AOC has some really anti-war stuff going on, and thats of the things that totally disqualifies you from presidential leadership... you can succeed as a major or governor... but i think shes peaked, shes not even gonna get to be a senator, and much less president.

Shes too soft and weak, shell either never make it nor be allowed to.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 14, 2019, 06:25:35 pm
ACA was a center-left policy.

What's left wing about forcing people to buy insurance from private companies?
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 14, 2019, 06:27:29 pm
Even if I found the need to have a gun, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. I'd be bummed out that I lived in a shitty society that necessitated having a gun.

Big fucking mood

Also why the fuck are yall entertaining drugs are bad mkay shitty suit mcshutup and go back to your shitty maine with your shit ass smaller than my desert podunk hometown capital?

 :lulz:
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 14, 2019, 06:32:58 pm

I've heard commented that AOC has some really anti-war stuff going on, and thats of the things that totally disqualifies you from presidential leadership... you can succeed as a major or governor... but i think shes peaked, shes not even gonna get to be a senator, and much less president.

Shes too soft and weak, shell either never make it nor be allowed to.

Who said anything about her running for president?
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Don Coyote on July 15, 2019, 01:00:53 am
ACA was a center-left policy.

What's left wing about forcing people to buy insurance from private companies?

It's not the FREE MARKETtm so it has to be a leftist plot to control people. Or something.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Don Coyote on July 15, 2019, 01:04:05 am
Even if I found the need to have a gun, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. I'd be bummed out that I lived in a shitty society that necessitated having a gun.

Big fucking mood

Also why the fuck are yall entertaining drugs are bad mkay shitty suit mcshutup and go back to your shitty maine with your shit ass smaller than my desert podunk hometown capital?

 :lulz:

Not even joking.
Augusta, Maine Estimated pop in 2017 18,594
Ridgecrest, California Estimated pop in 2017 28,880
Ridgecrest ONE public high school and TWO public middle schools.
So Normy Wormy can just keep all his shit in his shitty state and beat off to jackbooting folks for recreational drugs.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 15, 2019, 01:35:50 am
ACA was a center-left policy.

What's left wing about forcing people to buy insurance from private companies?

null & void said center-left doesnít pass policy, I was pointing out just one example of how thatís wrong
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: The Johnny on July 15, 2019, 01:49:52 am

I've heard commented that AOC has some really anti-war stuff going on, and thats of the things that totally disqualifies you from presidential leadership... you can succeed as a major or governor... but i think shes peaked, shes not even gonna get to be a senator, and much less president.

Shes too soft and weak, shell either never make it nor be allowed to.

Who said anything about her running for president?

None in this thread tbh, and besides shes like 8 years underage for the position?

It was more a comment on "hardline politicians", and how shes not, she seems too reasonable to be taken seriously in the given political climate.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Pergamos on July 15, 2019, 05:06:24 am
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

It's important to look at the popularity of policy in places like that.  A lot of what AOC supports that Pelosi doesn't is directly beneficial to the working class and a lot of those center right, or even full right wing, working class voters support them.  A progressive has a better chance than a centrist in plenty of conservative districts.

 :eek: Are you serious with that?  You're talking about tea-party conservatives right there the Fox News money demo. Hell, no way, they are going to support left wing policies, not from a left wing politician.  I mean, shit, I think they are probably nutzo enough to support left wing policies if by some miracle they were being touted by Ted Cruz or one of their own. But fuck no, are they going to line up behind a left wing candidate.

If the opponent is an establishment republican who has been screwing them and the left wing candidate speaks their language, yes they will.  You think they will vote for a Centrist Democrat?  You know that isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Pergamos on July 15, 2019, 05:10:04 am

I've heard commented that AOC has some really anti-war stuff going on, and thats of the things that totally disqualifies you from presidential leadership... you can succeed as a major or governor... but i think shes peaked, shes not even gonna get to be a senator, and much less president.

Shes too soft and weak, shell either never make it nor be allowed to.

She IS a senator.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 15, 2019, 05:35:03 am

I've heard commented that AOC has some really anti-war stuff going on, and thats of the things that totally disqualifies you from presidential leadership... you can succeed as a major or governor... but i think shes peaked, shes not even gonna get to be a senator, and much less president.

Shes too soft and weak, shell either never make it nor be allowed to.

She IS a senator.

She's in the House, not the Senate. So while she is a Congressthing, she's not a Senator.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Pergamos on July 15, 2019, 06:48:21 am
oops, my mistake
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Norman on July 15, 2019, 09:08:44 am
At the same time, Congress is a numbers game. Which I think, like her or don't like her, is ultimately where Pelosi is coming from.  The Dems in the House can do shit if they are in the minority. With a majority, they may not be able to do what the liberal wing of the party wants done, but they can do more than zero. 

I think that is where the rub is.  Pelosi and establishment want to move the ball to see if they can smash their way to a first down, AOC et al want to get a touch down on first possession. 

Of course the reality is with an R Senate and White House, it's not like there's too much the D's can accomplish, but whatever possibilities there might be, it certainly isn't going to be with a red-meat liberal initiative.

So in other words, we have to accept a moderate centrist agenda to achieve the agenda we need a buck short and a day late.

Yes, because like it or not, the American electorate is, at best, center-left.  AOC will get re-elected in her District all day long.  Meanwhile, in Maine's northern district, we have center-Left Jared Golden.  Now, he's not a Pelosi fan, he voted against her speakership in fact, but overall, much more moderate than AOC.  You will never, get someone like AOC elected in that district.  Golden won his election by miniscule numbers, he was lucky.  It's a center-right district. 

That's what you have to contend with.  To have more progressive/liberals, you have to have massive changes in the electorates in those regions, or catch lightning in a bottle and nominate someone who can win over right-leaning districts with personality to distract from their policy positions.  You might get lucky and do that in a few districts, but not on a scale to significantly tip the House to the progressive left. 

So given that reality, those numbers, is it best to get something or nothing?  That's where Pelosi is coming from.  And she's right.  Because the math is the math.

It's important to look at the popularity of policy in places like that.  A lot of what AOC supports that Pelosi doesn't is directly beneficial to the working class and a lot of those center right, or even full right wing, working class voters support them.  A progressive has a better chance than a centrist in plenty of conservative districts.

 :eek: Are you serious with that?  You're talking about tea-party conservatives right there the Fox News money demo. Hell, no way, they are going to support left wing policies, not from a left wing politician.  I mean, shit, I think they are probably nutzo enough to support left wing policies if by some miracle they were being touted by Ted Cruz or one of their own. But fuck no, are they going to line up behind a left wing candidate.

If the opponent is an establishment republican who has been screwing them and the left wing candidate speaks their language, yes they will.  You think they will vote for a Centrist Democrat?  You know that isn't going to happen.

Where were you in 2018? It did happen.  Thatís how the Dems won the House. Most of the seats they flipped they flipped with centrist Democrats.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: LMNO on July 15, 2019, 02:04:43 pm
No, not at all. Iím saying put aside litmus tests, get the orange buffoon out of office. If he gets another 4 years, shitís gonna get worse.

You're acting like Trump is the cause, and not the symptom.

If, somehow, a Centrist Dem boots Trump, you think the GOP is gonna say, "ok, your turn"?

No, they'll go on a vicious attack, and the Centrist will compromise, which is another way of saying, "well, I guess some genocide is all right."

A Leftist president will fight like hell and give it right back to them. 
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Cain on July 15, 2019, 02:39:20 pm
See also: Biden
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Juana on July 15, 2019, 09:42:17 pm
You're acting like Trump is the cause, and not the symptom.

If, somehow, a Centrist Dem boots Trump, you think the GOP is gonna say, "ok, your turn"?

No, they'll go on a vicious attack, and the Centrist will compromise, which is another way of saying, "well, I guess some genocide is all right."
Evidence:
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/92d55da1ff646c106325d80838f1e728/2d7567e2bec21426-2c/s1280x1920/3ff43012733fb3d65e0a68d97821be7d357e70fb.pnj)
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 16, 2019, 03:56:45 am
That feud was dangerous, but the Mango Mussolini couldn't keep his fat mouth shut, so maybe all better now.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 16, 2019, 03:57:41 am
No, not at all. Iím saying put aside litmus tests, get the orange buffoon out of office. If he gets another 4 years, shitís gonna get worse.

You're acting like Trump is the cause, and not the symptom.

If, somehow, a Centrist Dem boots Trump, you think the GOP is gonna say, "ok, your turn"?

No, they'll go on a vicious attack, and the Centrist will compromise, which is another way of saying, "well, I guess some genocide is all right."

A Leftist president will fight like hell and give it right back to them.

Well, yes.  The root cause of failure here is "Americans".
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 16, 2019, 05:19:53 am
No, not at all. Iím saying put aside litmus tests, get the orange buffoon out of office. If he gets another 4 years, shitís gonna get worse.

You're acting like Trump is the cause, and not the symptom.

If, somehow, a Centrist Dem boots Trump, you think the GOP is gonna say, "ok, your turn"?

No, they'll go on a vicious attack, and the Centrist will compromise, which is another way of saying, "well, I guess some genocide is all right."

A Leftist president will fight like hell and give it right back to them.

Well, yes.  The root cause of failure here is "Americans".

That does seem to be the common theme
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Bruno on July 16, 2019, 11:15:08 am
Even if I found the need to have a gun, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. I'd be bummed out that I lived in a shitty society that necessitated having a gun.

That's where I'm at, except at this point I'm about one mediocre used car deep into spending money on guns... because white people are scary, and that's coming from a white person.

I mean, I think they're kinda neat for farting around in the backyard, and if it weren't for the scary white people factor I might have a 22 pistol for shooting soda cans for shits and giggles, but as things are now, I worry that I may need to arm some people if shit gets really weird, and so now I have a collection of assault weapons which I bought with money that  I would have otherwise preferred to have spent on student loans, or my retirement funds or something, but I live in a shitty society that seems to necessitate me being able to pass out guns like candy when the scary white people I'm surrounded by decide to finally carry out their unceasing threats to "take their country back".

All the while I realize that there is nothing the gun industry would like more than an arms race between the right and left in this country, and I am in all likelihood totally falling for their schemes.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Cain on July 16, 2019, 12:28:04 pm
The thing is, the Democrats might be against the wall and the kiddie concentration camps, but they have bought wholesale into the "we must militarize the border" dynamic that has existed since 9/11.

Of course, 9/11 was an intelligence failure, not a border control one (Mohammed Atta aside...he should have been flagged for sharing a name with a Palestinian terrorist) and none of the terrorist attacks since then have had anything to do with border control in any significant fashion, but the Democrats believe if they show they are tough on border security, Republican voters who think Pelosi is a Communist sleeper agent in the US to install sharia law, will find the party more appealing. As you can see, this strategy is working out great (you'll note Republicans never need to "appeal to moderates", even while the President is tweeting white supremacist propaganda and trying to get a Congressman assassinated by proxy).

So of course they voted against AoC's measures, because it would more broadly limit their ability to militarize the border.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 17, 2019, 12:17:44 am
The thing is, the Democrats might be against the wall and the kiddie concentration camps, but they have bought wholesale into the "we must militarize the border" dynamic that has existed since 9/11.


Well, there are no contracts to be awarded by saying "there isn't actually a problem".

Also, the dem insistence on compromising with evil.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: altered on July 17, 2019, 03:49:07 am
Yeah, what Howl said.
Title: Re: Pelosi vs AOC feud
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 17, 2019, 03:55:48 am
Thirded