Curious about a concept in the BIP

[Adios]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

Thus 'free' in quotes... myself, I tend to see the 'escape' as realizing that limitations aren't always prisons

[Wyldkat]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

Thus 'free' in quotes... myself, I tend to see the 'escape' as realizing that limitations aren't always prisons

Ok, that might be a difference.  The similar concept that I work with you can rise above.  As in once you realize that everything is a construct you can consciously choose whether to hook into any particular idea or not.  You can't escape your own way of viewing the world, but your awareness of it can free you of some of the limitations of wearing blinders IF you choose to do so.

On second thought that's still pretty similar.

Not everyone here is involved in the BIP project of completely subscribes to it.
It's a diverse community and just because there are major concepts or projects on the board doesn't mean there's something which every member most subscribe to.

Never said or thought they were, or that anyone was expected to subscribe to it. 

I found the BIP an interesting read.  I'm not sure how one would go about placing someone else in their own BIP, it seems sort of counter the entire concept as I learned it. If it makes sense from what you know I'd like to know how that would work.

I found it interesting to find the idea that we are all in our own separate prison (mental construct of the world, whatever a person wishes to call it) here.  I honestly hadn't expected it since many people seem to be so reactive to other people's thoughts and opinions.  That part goes directly counter the concept I learned.  I'm interested in the idea and how it is understood by the people here, since there must be differences to account for the reactivity.

Also I've been reading around and wouldn't have started this thread if I had found the answer elsewhere.  If you have any threads to suggest, I would appreciate it.

1) Thought control (temp bans, deleting posts, permabans, etc)

2) We construct our own prisons, there is no escape, our prison is in constant flux as we change.

1)  Ok I can see that as a method online for someone who had mod powers.  Hadn't really thought about online, more face to face.

2)  I agree with all of this except the no escape to a certain extent (see above).

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

Thus 'free' in quotes... myself, I tend to see the 'escape' as realizing that limitations aren't always prisons

Ok, that might be a difference.  The similar concept that I work with you can rise above.  As in once you realize that everything is a construct you can consciously choose whether to hook into any particular idea or not.  You can't escape your own way of viewing the world, but your awareness of it can free you of some of the limitations of wearing blinders IF you choose to do so.

I wou;dn't say 'rise above' I don't think... seems to indicate some kind of Enlightenment or Transcendence. More like recognizing that as humans we will always have limitations. Those limitations may be prisons, or they might be submarines or spaceships. They are limitations... but the only way we can explore the deep oceans or space. Having the limitations associated with being human, may simply be the vehicle from which we can experience life.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Hmmm...I like that.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I think Wyldkat and CPD probably need to read the BIP again.

They can do while walking backwards, widdershins, around a stone circle if it makes them happy, but it's definitely time to read it again.

Otherwise Wyldkat can just decide to get offended by "Niger" and cut to the chase.

I hadn't read it at all before this. I just thought Wyldkat's post was interesting, knowing what I know of modern shamanism and what I've gleaned of BIP from random forum chatter. Started looking into BIP last night and am continuing today. Got distracted by the LessWrong blog halfway through, though. :S

[Wyldkat]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

Thus 'free' in quotes... myself, I tend to see the 'escape' as realizing that limitations aren't always prisons

Ok, that might be a difference.  The similar concept that I work with you can rise above.  As in once you realize that everything is a construct you can consciously choose whether to hook into any particular idea or not.  You can't escape your own way of viewing the world, but your awareness of it can free you of some of the limitations of wearing blinders IF you choose to do so.

I wou;dn't say 'rise above' I don't think... seems to indicate some kind of Enlightenment or Transcendence. More like recognizing that as humans we will always have limitations. Those limitations may be prisons, or they might be submarines or spaceships. They are limitations... but the only way we can explore the deep oceans or space. Having the limitations associated with being human, may simply be the vehicle from which we can experience life.

I meant "rise above" more as in a "rise above a challenge" than any sort of enlightenment or transcendence.

I strongly agree with the bolded part.  

So how does knowing about your BIP help/change interaction with other people?  The way I see it is that being aware that we all have our own construct of the world makes it easier to accept that other people are going to act the way they are going to, my own sense of logic and fair play be damned.  That's a very, very simplified explanation...

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

Thus 'free' in quotes... myself, I tend to see the 'escape' as realizing that limitations aren't always prisons

Ok, that might be a difference.  The similar concept that I work with you can rise above.  As in once you realize that everything is a construct you can consciously choose whether to hook into any particular idea or not.  You can't escape your own way of viewing the world, but your awareness of it can free you of some of the limitations of wearing blinders IF you choose to do so.

I wou;dn't say 'rise above' I don't think... seems to indicate some kind of Enlightenment or Transcendence. More like recognizing that as humans we will always have limitations. Those limitations may be prisons, or they might be submarines or spaceships. They are limitations... but the only way we can explore the deep oceans or space. Having the limitations associated with being human, may simply be the vehicle from which we can experience life.

I meant "rise above" more as in a "rise above a challenge" than any sort of enlightenment or transcendence.

I strongly agree with the bolded part.  

So how does knowing about your BIP help/change interaction with other people?  The way I see it is that being aware that we all have our own construct of the world makes it easier to accept that other people are going to act the way they are going to, my own sense of logic and fair play be damned.  That's a very, very simplified explanation...

You can use your limits as a crutch or as a springboard, I figure. But how that relates to other people depends on what their limits are, doesn't it?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

In the BiP you are the prisoner and the guard, and the walls and bars and everything else... the only person that can 'free' you is you.

I go with the thinking that there is no real escape, just an occasional escape of a defective idea.

Thus 'free' in quotes... myself, I tend to see the 'escape' as realizing that limitations aren't always prisons

Ok, that might be a difference.  The similar concept that I work with you can rise above.  As in once you realize that everything is a construct you can consciously choose whether to hook into any particular idea or not.  You can't escape your own way of viewing the world, but your awareness of it can free you of some of the limitations of wearing blinders IF you choose to do so.

I wou;dn't say 'rise above' I don't think... seems to indicate some kind of Enlightenment or Transcendence. More like recognizing that as humans we will always have limitations. Those limitations may be prisons, or they might be submarines or spaceships. They are limitations... but the only way we can explore the deep oceans or space. Having the limitations associated with being human, may simply be the vehicle from which we can experience life.

I meant "rise above" more as in a "rise above a challenge" than any sort of enlightenment or transcendence.

I strongly agree with the bolded part.  

So how does knowing about your BIP help/change interaction with other people?  The way I see it is that being aware that we all have our own construct of the world makes it easier to accept that other people are going to act the way they are going to, my own sense of logic and fair play be damned.  That's a very, very simplified explanation...

Yep, that and realizing that you have your own limitations and may not be seeing the whole view yourself.

For me the bit about my own limitations is quite important.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I meant "rise above" more as in a "rise above a challenge" than any sort of enlightenment or transcendence.

Huh?
People rise TO a challenge. They rise ABOVE circumstances, etc. - which is the same as transcending.

[BabylonHoruv]

The border between the Real and the Unreal is not fixed, but just marks the last place where rival gangs of shamans fought each other to a standstill.
Robert Anton Wilson


There we have RAW chiming in about it.  From his point of view Discordianism is a form of Shamanism.

(For WK's benefit and any others not familiar with the history of Discordianism he's one of the founders of Discordianism, along with Kerry Thornley and some others.

[Wyldkat]

Yep, that and realizing that you have your own limitations and may not be seeing the whole view yourself.

For me the bit about my own limitations is quite important.

Everyone has limitations due to the fact that they are constructing their own reality, consciously or unconsciously as the case may be.  You can't create what you don't know or aren't even aware of.  With the prison imagery, the bars block quite a bit even if you know they are there.

On top of my own limitations figuring out where other people are coming from, or viewing me from is an issue.  I've found that unless I try to figure out what on earth other people are seeing through their prison bars concerning me and issues that concern me, I might as well just be banging my head against a wall.  I'll never really understand people as they understand themselves (and vice versa), but getting an idea of their viewpoint helps me to understand some of their actions that might otherwise make no sense.  At that point it is my choice whether to keep beating my head against the wall, change my tactics, or just walk away.

The border between the Real and the Unreal is not fixed, but just marks the last place where rival gangs of shamans fought each other to a standstill.
Robert Anton Wilson


There we have RAW chiming in about it.  From his point of view Discordianism is a form of Shamanism.

(For WK's benefit and any others not familiar with the history of Discordianism he's one of the founders of Discordianism, along with Kerry Thornley and some others.

Thanks, I read up a little on him when he was mentioned earlier and I think I might have read some of his work at one point.  I missed the fact he thought of Discordianism as a form of Shamanism though.  Interesting.  That could explain some of what I've been noticing.

ETA:  Although that makes me REALLY curious where all the anti-shamanism stuff comes from around here.  I know it's to each his own, but it's interesting to me that something one of the founders connected Discordianism with gets so vilified on a Discordian site.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Welcome to Discordia. "Founder" just means they happened to write some cool stuff that inspired other stuff. Many folsk here have never read anything by the 'founders'.

[Wyldkat]

Welcome to Discordia. "Founder" just means they happened to write some cool stuff that inspired other stuff. Many folsk here have never read anything by the 'founders'.

Also interesting.  I understood that Discordia was to each his own and think for yourself, but I'm surprised that people would group themselves in any group without researching it, if not first then soon after getting interested in it.  My own prejudice showing I guess.  I am big on researching things that interest me.  Doesn't it make it hard when there are no necessarily common points of reference?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Welcome to Discordia. "Founder" just means they happened to write some cool stuff that inspired other stuff. Many folsk here have never read anything by the 'founders'.

Also interesting.  I understood that Discordia was to each his own and think for yourself, but I'm surprised that people would group themselves in any group without researching it, if not first then soon after getting interested in it.  My own prejudice showing I guess.  I am big on researching things that interest me.  Doesn't it make it hard when there are no necessarily common points of reference?

We Discordians tend to stick apart