New People Should Probably Read This.

[Doktor Howl]

Whether you happen to like it or not, everyone¹ is wrong now and again.  Even I, the brilliant & horrible Doktor Howl, have been known to spout a truism now and again.  The question, of course, is how you REACT to being wrong.

The general instinct of primates is to dig your heels in and start screeching.  There's a reason for this...In most primate societies, admitting that you were wrong is interpreted as beta behavior, at least on a subconscious level, and thus leads to a perceived threat to your chances to mate.  That sounds silly, but it's how it works.

However, by virtue of you reading this, you are not in one of those societies...Discordians tend to value The Truth™, by which I mean "The way the universe IS, not how I WANT it to be.".  This almost always comes up in threads about "magick", libertarianism, goldbuggery, Ayn Rand, "real" discordianism", the free market™, and drugs, but is by no means limited to these topics.

So when you start the chest pounding, teeth-on-display , screaming that your pet theory or "fact" is right, in the face of valid contradictory information², there are three perceptions of your behavior:

You (forebrain):  "I'm going to show these guys that they're not so hot, and that I know what the fuck is up".

You (hindbrain):  "If I can make my case, I will get laid with the women here."

What we hear you saying:  "Please Mistress Nigel, hammer that yam straight up into my guts!"

This may seem straightforward, but it's going to bother you on the level at which you are wired...Your primate/pack animal drives.  If you can't overcome those drives, you are probably in the wrong place, and should instead find a board that agrees with your worldview.

The next problem a lot of people run into is knowing something is incorrect, but arguing for it anyway, on account of the fact that the universe SHOULD be that way.  It isn't.  Shut up, or kill me, because I don't want to hear it, and nobody else does, either.  This sort of shit falls under religion, and we are men and women of SCIENCE.

Then, there's the trap of being neither right nor wrong.  If you have made a post in which no actual idea - no matter how simple - is conveyed, then, while you are not wrong, you aren't right either, because there's nothing to be right about.  Anyone who's ever watched a sitcom knows what I'm talking about...As does anyone who has been subjected to "word salad"/dadaism, also known as "chaotic gibberish" or "stream of conscious zaniness."  If you MUST post this sort of garbage, please limit it to one thread, so the rest of us can give it all the attention it merits.  Your timeless prose is not improved by being posted on every thread on the forum.

So, to recap:  If you can't prove your case, but your opponent can, you should probably at least try to look at it from another point of view.  If your post is just intentional gibberish with no idea embedded, do it in private and for God's sake wash your hands afterward.

Okay for now,
Dok




¹  Everyone except the Dark Empress Nigel.  When she seems to be wrong, it's because the universe has made a mistake, and is giving you bad observational data.  She's right, the universe is wrong.  Do not question it.  I am a Doktor.

²  Of course, if YOU have actual evidence and your opposite number can't produce evidence to refute it, you are perfectly free to tell that person to piss up a rope.  The trick here is telling the difference, which requires critical thinking.  I can't teach you that, and neither can anyone else.

[LMNO]

 

[Elder Iptuous]

good stuff.
also made me wonder if we get more than the usual hind-brain heel digging due to the relatively high number of female participants on the board bathing the place with their iPheromones?

also. fantastic response gif, LMNO!

[Doktor Howl]

I am of course not saying people shouldn't bring up new ideas, or new arguments in favor of or against an existing idea, but when some jackass provides enough evidence to haul the transmission out of your idea or argument, you should probably re-examine it.

This involves doing something primates hate...Actually LOOKING at the opposing evidence, and giving it a fair shake.  Do not listen to hear what your opponent is saying, and do not listen to refute that evidence, but rather listen to understand the evidence.  Try to keep the knee from jerking until you have weighed the evidence in question.  If you are forming a response while you are reading it, you are not even attempting to understand the other person's argument, and therefore no actual discussion is taking place.

Also, Ippie, that's an emote now.   Has been for a bit.

[Triple Zero]

This involves doing something primates hate...Actually LOOKING at the opposing evidence, and giving it a fair shake.  Do not listen to hear what your opponent is saying, and do not listen to refute that evidence, but rather listen to understand the evidence.

It's also something that, as a Discordian, I've grown to love and try to actively seek out. The primate in me still screams about it, though.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This was an awesome post!

And not just because I'm in it. 

Also LMNO wins for excellent use of that marvelous emote.

[AFK]

I am going to be completely honest and say that this bothers me and is making me consider if perhaps it isn't time for me to move on, something I've actually been contemplating a lot lately and would do if it weren't for wanting to keep in contact with certain individuals.

[LMNO]

I am going to be completely honest and say that this bothers me and is making me consider if perhaps it isn't time for me to move on, something I've actually been contemplating a lot lately and would do if it weren't for wanting to keep in contact with certain individuals.

Which is the part the bothers you?  To me, it reads like a more aggressive "Think for Yourself, Schmuck".

[AFK]

Coming on the heels of some certain conversations and exchanges in the MJ thread, particularly between myself and the individual named by name in this piece, it comes as a bit of a slap.  Unintentional, I'm sure.  But it is still rather jarring for me. 

[LMNO]

Coming on the heels of some certain conversations and exchanges in the MJ thread, particularly between myself and the individual named by name in this piece, it comes as a bit of a slap.  Unintentional, I'm sure.  But it is still rather jarring for me. 

In my opinion, the MJ thread is somewhat of an anomaly: Both sides for the most part draw on facts, on-the-ground experience, and moral principles.  The sticking point has become which facts and principles outweigh the others.  So, as an observer of the thread, both sides make great points, and I often consider both sides to be equally valid, which becomes very confusing.

Which, in my book, would be considered a conversation.

[Payne]

Dok, I like this. That bastard TGRR could never have written this.

Also, MJ thread?

[LMNO]

Also, MJ thread?

Mary-Who-Wanna.


Or, the Michael Jackson thread.  Quite divisive, that one.

[AFK]

Coming on the heels of some certain conversations and exchanges in the MJ thread, particularly between myself and the individual named by name in this piece, it comes as a bit of a slap.  Unintentional, I'm sure.  But it is still rather jarring for me. 

In my opinion, the MJ thread is somewhat of an anomaly: Both sides for the most part draw on facts, on-the-ground experience, and moral principles.  The sticking point has become which facts and principles outweigh the others.  So, as an observer of the thread, both sides make great points, and I often consider both sides to be equally valid, which becomes very confusing.

Which, in my book, would be considered a conversation.

Noted.  I'm not going to say anymore to avoid a disruptive shit-storm.  Just needed to voice my discomfort. 

[The Wizard Joseph]

So, to recap:  If you can't prove your case, but your opponent can, you should probably at least try to look at it from another point of view.  If your post is just intentional gibberish with no idea embedded, do it in private and for God's sake wash your hands afterward.

What? And here I thought that's what the  are for...  Um, sorry.  I'll clean 'em.  It'll be fine. 

[Cramulus]

I like the post!

I want to add that my personal brand of Discord does not include The Truth so much as a degree of skepticism towards people who seem too certain they know the Truth.

I sure don't know The Truth. What I think I know, I doubt. That doubt is a kind of fuel.


see Chao Te Ching Chapters 38, 51, 67