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London calling

Started by Cain, August 08, 2011, 07:13:11 PM

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Cain

David Starkey has refused to apologize for his idiotic racism, while making more racist comments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14601813

Quote"At the top, successful blacks, like (MPs) David Lammy and Diane Abbott have merged effortlessly into what continues to be a largely white elite...

"At the bottom of the heap, the story of integration is the opposite: it is the white lumpen proletariat, cruelly known as the 'chavs', who have integrated into the pervasive black 'gangsta' culture."

You see, he's not saying blacks are inherently violent  He's only saying black culture is inherently violent, and blacks who are not violent are so because they have successfully adapted to the civilizing influences of white culture.  And, naturally, the reverse is true, with whites adapting to the barbarized black culture.

You know, it strikes me there is a lot of projection in Whitey racism about blacks.  Chiefly, being afraid of blacks because they are violent and because they steal stuff.  Any objective view of history is going to suggest that white Europeans mastered the art of organized violence and theft on an international level (ie colonialism), so, uh, really, yeah. 

Starkey, of course, as a historian is well aware of this.  However his racism prevents him from actually recognising it.

bds

I was on holiday while all this was going on, so I only got the chance to check the odd Guardian frontpage every now and again. While telling my family about these riots, my Granddad was cracking me up -- his first response to me telling everyone about what was happening was "Well, we should just shoot the lot of 'em." When I stopped laughing and told him that shooting people was one of the reasons WHY everyone was rioting, he resorted to the normal old person platitudes about how young people aren't disciplined enough these days. He also at one point said "I assume this is because of these gangs of blacks" and spent about fifteen minutes trying to tell me that the majority of riots are mostly giant organised conspiracies.

Also, thanks to everyone posting links and stuff ITT -- it's hard to keep abreast of stuff like this on crappy Spanish internet (especially when you have sun and a Kindle to distract you) but everything in here has been really informative and interesting!

Doktor Howl

Molon Lube

Triple Zero

Quote from: Cain on August 20, 2011, 10:48:58 PM
Quote"At the bottom of the heap, the story of integration is the opposite: it is the white lumpen proletariat, cruelly known as the 'chavs', who have integrated into the pervasive black 'gangsta' culture."

You see, he's not saying blacks are inherently violent  He's only saying black culture is inherently violent, and blacks who are not violent are so because they have successfully adapted to the civilizing influences of white culture.  And, naturally, the reverse is true, with whites adapting to the barbarized black culture.

You know, it strikes me there is a lot of projection in Whitey racism about blacks.  Chiefly, being afraid of blacks because they are violent and because they steal stuff.  Any objective view of history is going to suggest that white Europeans mastered the art of organized violence and theft on an international level (ie colonialism), so, uh, really, yeah. 

Starkey, of course, as a historian is well aware of this.  However his racism prevents him from actually recognising it.

... because those white chavs would be really upstanding well-mannered blokes, if only they didn't listen to that horrible subversive gangsta rap music!
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

BadBeast

Quote from: Triple Zero on August 22, 2011, 09:09:51 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 20, 2011, 10:48:58 PM
Quote"At the bottom of the heap, the story of integration is the opposite: it is the white lumpen proletariat, cruelly known as the 'chavs', who have integrated into the pervasive black 'gangsta' culture."

You see, he's not saying blacks are inherently violent  He's only saying black culture is inherently violent, and blacks who are not violent are so because they have successfully adapted to the civilizing influences of white culture.  And, naturally, the reverse is true, with whites adapting to the barbarized black culture.

You know, it strikes me there is a lot of projection in Whitey racism about blacks.  Chiefly, being afraid of blacks because they are violent and because they steal stuff.  Any objective view of history is going to suggest that white Europeans mastered the art of organized violence and theft on an international level (ie colonialism), so, uh, really, yeah. 

Starkey, of course, as a historian is well aware of this.  However his racism prevents him from actually recognising it.

... because those white chavs would be really upstanding well-mannered blokes, if only they didn't listen to that horrible subversive gangsta rap music!
:argh!: How dare you! Some of my best friends are subversives!
"We need a plane for Bombing, Strafing, Assault and Battery, Interception, Ground Support, and Reconaissance,
NOT JUST A "FAIR WEATHER FIGHTER"!

"I kinda like him. It's like he sees inside my soul" ~ Nigel


Whoever puts their hand on me to govern me, is a usurper, and a tyrant, and I declare them my enemy!

"And when the clouds obscure the moon, and normal service is resumed. It wont. Mean. A. Thing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpkCJDYxH-4

Triple Zero

I think your friends should go back home to Subversia. And if you like them so much, go with them to Subversistan!
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

BadBeast

They've been exiled from the old Country, for generations, so they had to live in Seditia for years!  But you can't be expected know that, coming from a Low Country like Perversia, or 'Ho Land', as we call it!
"We need a plane for Bombing, Strafing, Assault and Battery, Interception, Ground Support, and Reconaissance,
NOT JUST A "FAIR WEATHER FIGHTER"!

"I kinda like him. It's like he sees inside my soul" ~ Nigel


Whoever puts their hand on me to govern me, is a usurper, and a tyrant, and I declare them my enemy!

"And when the clouds obscure the moon, and normal service is resumed. It wont. Mean. A. Thing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpkCJDYxH-4

Nephew Twiddleton

Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Cain

Government is still banging on about how "gang culture" is responsible for the riots.

Meanwhile, this is the best piece of writing on the riots, bar none:

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ryan-gallagher/wilful-ignorance-media-journalism-riots-tony-evans

Quote... The presenter turned to Kelvin Mackenzie and said to him, "don't you think we should try to understand these riots?"

He said, "no I don't think we should". And there we have it. The lack of understanding; the wilful ignorance. To try and come to terms with what's caused this trouble in our society and this alienation where one large section of society just doesn't want to think about the people who are involved in it [the rioting]. And wants to write them off, criminalise them, and put them in to a sort of box where they don't have to be thought about.

I think that is what has characterised the coverage of the riots. I think it has been a particularly grim period for journalism. It was led that way, in many ways, in the initial outburst of violence by the 24hr rolling news.

I found it staggering, the way news presenters were editorialising. They were showing film of what was going on in Tottenham, and they were saying: "there is no political element to this, this is just vandalism, this is just people looting" ... without any sense of what the background to this was. Without any attempt to put it in its context.

We saw Sky News reporters walking down the streets, filming people on their phones and saying, "I come from round here, I can't believe what I'm seeing, are you proud of yourself?" As if they were headmasters.

That's not journalism. Journalism should be the pursuit of the truth and the pursuit of knowledge. And we weren't seeing knowledge there. We were getting the vicarious thrills of being in the middle of a riot. The Daily Mail's view? "Give this man an award". I don't think it's award-winning journalism personally – because it told me nothing.

It told me nothing because I've been in a riot. I've fought with policemen. I've kicked in shop windows. I've stole from shops. Alot of people haven't, but I have. And I understand the frustrations that come from being in that underclass, where you're written off, where you're given no opportunities. And you're demonised. You're demonised by the media and you're demonised by the political system. It was 30 years ago, but I felt the same way they [the rioters] did.

The way the media was quick to put it all down to a sense of consumerism. "They've all got Blackberrys". Well, a Blackberry doesn't cost very much actually. But I'll tell you what – what alot of the kids who where there [rioting] don't have is expectations. The poverty of expectation, the poverty of belief in what you can do with your life...

But of course, the newspapers were more concerned with taking the opposite view. The Daily Express – the headline – "Flaming Morons". Which says to you: these people don't deserve to be treated well, they don't deserve to be regarded as human beings. And all through that whole week of rioting... the narrative was all about that. It was all about criminality. It's all about not being able to explain, about not being able to understand. As if this came all out of the blue and surprised us.

This has been building for four or five years. And the only people who appear to be surprised about it are journalists and politicians. So we have this situation where the government now is allowed to move the dialogue on and suddenly blame gangs. And the newspapers are rushing to report this, and agree with it.

In every time of economic turmoil, where poverty is building, there have been riots over the years. There has also been the instinctive urge to blame gangs. It goes back to the 1870s and the 1880s and the High Rip [gang] in Liverpool. So they [gangs] are easy targets.

And what it does: you don't need to get beyond the surface, you can just point fingers. And this is what's disappointed me from the newspapers especially in the last few weeks.

I can understand the superficiality of television. But you know, I can't understand that newspapers, where you've got time, you've got the chance to talk to people, the anonymity that's guaranteed in print, that no one's gone out to talk to the people who were doing this, who were out there.

... Sky News ran a piece with four kids, where they discussed the reason that they rioted. And they were very articulate about it. They talked about how they had attempted to fit in to normal society, but had been turned back at every turn. You know, it's easy to understand. But again, that piece was undermined by the payoff, which talked about criminal behaviour. If this was about criminal behaviour, if this was about violence, if this was just about feral kids running out of control, we'd see it every weekend.

We saw spontaneous outbursts of it because this society's mantra is "there is no society". Why would you expect these kids to care about people around them?

And yet, there was no sense of blaming the politicians for this environment that they've created. It's all about punishment. It's all about victimisation, it's all about marginalising people who've got the least voice. That's what's really disappointed me. And I don't see it getting any better.

Unfortunately I don't think there's a will to understand in this country. And I also think there is an instinctive fear in some journalists – quite alot of them – to actually confront the preconceptions of the mass of the British public.

This is a time when journalism has been trusted probably about as little as it's ever been trusted. And what people don't want to do is say to the people who say "they're louts, send them to the army, hang them, shoot them", no, you're wrong, think about it. It's easier to go along with public perceptions...

But that's not our role. Our role is to come up with the truth. And I don't believe we've got to the truth in the last few weeks.

This is the football news editor at the Times, I should point out.  And he just schooled the vast majority of the British media.

Cain

lolz

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14834827

QuoteHome Secretary Theresa May has told MPs that it appeared that the "majority of people" involved in the riots were not in gangs.

She told MPs that as arrests had continued, the percentage involved in gangs had dropped.

But there was "some evidence" gangs were involved in inciting rioting on social media, she said.

More than 2,700 people were arrested after violence and looting spread from London to other English cities.

Gangs got much of the blame for the spread of disorder - Prime Minister David Cameron promised a "concerted, all out war on gangs and gang culture", a gangs task force has been set up and former police chief of Los Angeles and New York Bill Bratton is to advise the government on the issue.
Criminality

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith - who is part of a government taskforce looking at gangs - has warned Britain is in the "last chance saloon" and told the Spectator last month there was "pretty good evidence" gangs were at the centre of the riots.

Mrs May said the Metropolitan Police and other forces were looking at the number of people arrested with known gang affiliations - the percentage of which had fallen over time, as more people were arrested. About 25% of those arrested were juveniles, she said.

"On current evidence it would seem that the majority of people involved were not individuals who've been involved in gangs, although obviously a number of people involved were involved in gangs.

"But there is some evidence that obviously there was some gang activity taking place in terms of encouraging people to take part in these events and as we saw, some of that encouragement was being propagated on social media."

She said it was clear "criminality" underlay the riots - as about three quarters of those arrested so far, had some form of criminal record. Arrests were expected to continue for some time, she said - and as a result the picture of who was involved would keep changing.

The home secretary is involved in a cross-departmental group looking into gang issues. She said she would be hosting an international conference in October, "looking at other countries that have gang problems" - such as the US - but also at examples of work in London and Strathclyde, seen as a success story in tackling gang culture, and wanted to ensure that "what works" was put into practice.

Asked whether gangs posed a threat to the 2012 Olympics being held in London - she said security planning had always considered the threat of public disorder, but they had looked at "whether there is anything we need to learn from the riots and policing the riots".

Government rhetoric owned by facts and reality yet again

Adios

Great article, too bad it will get swept away in the rush of the other reporters defending themselves.

LMNO

I need to send that to some people on my FB list who bought into the rhetoric.

Cramulus

Quote from: Cain on September 08, 2011, 01:51:48 PM
Government is still banging on about how "gang culture" is responsible for the riots.

Meanwhile, this is the best piece of writing on the riots, bar none:

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ryan-gallagher/wilful-ignorance-media-journalism-riots-tony-evans

excellent find! sharing

Triple Zero

QuoteHome Secretary Theresa May has told MPs that it appeared that the "majority of people" involved in the riots were not ginger.

She told MPs that as arrests had continued, the percentage of gingers had dropped.

But there was "some evidence" gingers were involved in inciting rioting on social media, she said.

More than 2,700 people were arrested after violence and looting spread from London to other English cities.

Gangs got much of the blame for the spread of disorder - Prime Minister David Cameron promised a "concerted, all out war on gingers and ginger culture", a gingers task force has been set up and former police chief of Los Angeles and New York Bill Bratton is to advise the government on the issue.

Carrot Heads

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith - who is part of a government taskforce looking at gingers - has warned Britain is in the "last chance saloon" and told the Spectator last month there was "pretty good evidence" gingers were at the centre of the riots.

Mrs May said the Metropolitan Police and other forces were looking at the number of people arrested with known ginger affiliations - the percentage of which had fallen over time, as more people were arrested. About 25% of those arrested were juveniles, she said.

"On current evidence it would seem that the majority of people involved were not gingers, although obviously a number of people involved were gingers.

"But there is some evidence that obviously there was some ginger activity taking place in terms of encouraging people to take part in these events and as we saw, some of that encouragement was being propagated on social media."

She said it was clear "carrot-ivity" underlay the riots - as about three quarters of those arrested so far, had eaten some form of carrots. Arrests were expected to continue for some time, she said - and as a result the picture of who was involved would keep changing.

The home secretary is involved in a cross-departmental group looking into ginger issues. She said she would be hosting an international conference in October, "looking at other countries that have ginger problems" - such as the US - but also at examples of work in London and Strathclyde, seen as a success story in tackling ginger culture, and wanted to ensure that "what works" was put into practice.

Asked whether gingers posed a threat to the 2012 Olympics being held in London - she said security planning had always considered the threat of public disorder, but they had looked at "whether there is anything we need to learn from the riots and policing the riots".

"On current evidence it would seem that the majority of people involved were not left-handed individuals, although obviously a number of people involved were left-handed. "

Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Placid Dingo

Trip, I'd like to reuse this and share.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.