an argument for a deflationary policy in the You Ess of Heeeeey

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd also like to point out that it's not like the library was down the street, like it is where I live now. From 11-18 I lived in the middle of nowhere and had to ride my bike (once I had begged, borrowed, or more likely stolen enough to buy one... it cost $12 and I'm not sure where I got the money because I don't think I was working yet) several miles in inclement weather to visit the incredibly tiny library. I'd read books by candlelight on a mattress on the floor of the trailer we lived in... I placed my mattress over the hole in the floor where it had rotted through from the previous occupants pissing in the corner.

If I hadn't already been addicted to books, the odds that I would have even known where the library was are slim to none, let alone that I'd go to that level of effort to get there. Not that there was anyfuckingthing else to do.

[Doktor Howl]

Oh, plenty of times when a bad decision or some chance happening would have fucked me.  That actually never goes away in my experience and so I've become pretty good at planning, and then having a backup plan and a backup for the backup.

Still, you can't plan for everything and I'm no more than one really bad accident or stupid decision away from being really set back.  I take a lot fewer risks in everything now that I have a spawn to care for.  I recognize there's luck involved, but it's never been primarily luck.  It's been learning and learning and making contacts and doing whatever I do as best I can possibly do it.

Balls.  You were BORN a winner, by virtue of being born here instead of in Darfur, etc. 

[Freeky]

Pickle, I just want to make sure you know what I'm stressing here in my argument.  Not everybody can do what you've done.  Not everybody is as smart as you, and you are smart becaus you've said that you learned from mistakes.  Learning is hard, and a large portion of our species is not capable of learning.  Not everyone can make contacts, either because there are none to be had or they are never in the right place or the right time.  Very few people, especially nowadays, have the opportunity to get a low ranking position anywhere near what they want to be doing for any length of time, let alone ten or fifteen years, because those sorts of jobs don't exist to people who don't have the right contacts AND the right qualifications.  

I am not saying that you didn't work for what you have, but you need to realize right the fuck now that you are one lucky motherfucker, and you have more luck than the average fifty people.  So I don't want to hear any more about how it was all down to you, because, and again I'm not saying you didn't work hard, but it wasn't down to you, it was down to luck.  

[Freeky]

Oh, plenty of times when a bad decision or some chance happening would have fucked me.  That actually never goes away in my experience and so I've become pretty good at planning, and then having a backup plan and a backup for the backup.

Still, you can't plan for everything and I'm no more than one really bad accident or stupid decision away from being really set back.  I take a lot fewer risks in everything now that I have a spawn to care for.  I recognize there's luck involved, but it's never been primarily luck.  It's been learning and learning and making contacts and doing whatever I do as best I can possibly do it.

Balls.  You were BORN a winner, by virtue of being born here instead of in Darfur, etc. 

Yeah, and I'm not even counting the rest of the world in my argument, I'm saying that even for an American he's should be thanking his lucky stars.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, plenty of times when a bad decision or some chance happening would have fucked me.  That actually never goes away in my experience and so I've become pretty good at planning, and then having a backup plan and a backup for the backup.

Still, you can't plan for everything and I'm no more than one really bad accident or stupid decision away from being really set back.  I take a lot fewer risks in everything now that I have a spawn to care for.  I recognize there's luck involved, but it's never been primarily luck.  It's been learning and learning and making contacts and doing whatever I do as best I can possibly do it.

No no no no no.  See, you are dismissing the luck argument again in favor of "If I can do it anyone can" again.  You won't get anywhere in learning about this particular subject, and thus you won't evolve as a human being, unless you do.  Planning may have had something to do with your success, but making contacts is luck, and making the right decision the first time was luck, and your success is due in large part to luck.

Being born smarter than some of the other monkeys is luck, too. I know it's not popular when I say this, but if you consider that most people are "average" and then examine what that means, well, after the vomiting and shaking stops you had damn well better thank your FUCKING LUCKY-ASS stars that you're a little bit smarter. Because I can guarantee you that every monkey on this board is smarter than average, probably by a fair bit, and that means that our ability to find patterns, make associations, plan for contingencies, solve problems in creative ways, and to learn in general is, through no real doing of our own, significantly better than the average monkey.

It might sound like elitism, but the bottom line for me is that when I realized that, rather than looking down on the poor fucks who didn't win the brain lottery, I feel holy shit lucky as hell. Because if I'm struggling, they would be doomed, and I've seen people go down in flames - losing their home, job, losing custody of their kids - simply from making decisions I could clearly see from the outset were strategically very very flawed.

[Doktor Howl]

Oh, plenty of times when a bad decision or some chance happening would have fucked me.  That actually never goes away in my experience and so I've become pretty good at planning, and then having a backup plan and a backup for the backup.

Still, you can't plan for everything and I'm no more than one really bad accident or stupid decision away from being really set back.  I take a lot fewer risks in everything now that I have a spawn to care for.  I recognize there's luck involved, but it's never been primarily luck.  It's been learning and learning and making contacts and doing whatever I do as best I can possibly do it.

No no no no no.  See, you are dismissing the luck argument again in favor of "If I can do it anyone can" again.  You won't get anywhere in learning about this particular subject, and thus you won't evolve as a human being, unless you do.  Planning may have had something to do with your success, but making contacts is luck, and making the right decision the first time was luck, and your success is due in large part to luck.

Being born smarter than some of the other monkeys is luck, too. I know it's not popular when I say this, but if you consider that most people are "average" and then examine what that means, well, after the vomiting and shaking stops you had damn well better thank your FUCKING LUCKY-ASS stars that you're a little bit smarter. Because I can guarantee you that every monkey on this board is smarter than average, probably by a fair bit, and that means that our ability to find patterns, make associations, plan for contingencies, solve problems in creative ways, and to learn in general is, through no real doing of our own, significantly better than the average monkey.

It might sound like elitism, but the bottom line for me is that when I realized that, rather than looking down on the poor fucks who didn't win the brain lottery, I feel holy shit lucky as hell. Because if I'm struggling, they would be doomed, and I've seen people go down in flames - losing their home, job, losing custody of their kids - simply from making decisions I could clearly see from the outset were strategically very very flawed.

Like voting for the good of oligarchs, ie, the tea party, instead of in their own interest.



Best part about idiots, is they can drag us down with them.  They're generous, that way.

[Freeky]

Being born smarter than some of the other monkeys is luck, too. I know it's not popular when I say this, but if you consider that most people are "average" and then examine what that means, well, after the vomiting and shaking stops you had damn well better thank your FUCKING LUCKY-ASS stars that you're a little bit smarter. Because I can guarantee you that every monkey on this board is smarter than average, probably by a fair bit, and that means that our ability to find patterns, make associations, plan for contingencies, solve problems in creative ways, and to learn in general is, through no real doing of our own, significantly better than the average monkey.

It might sound like elitism, but the bottom line for me is that when I realized that, rather than looking down on the poor fucks who didn't win the brain lottery, I feel holy shit lucky as hell. Because if I'm struggling, they would be doomed, and I've seen people go down in flames - losing their home, job, losing custody of their kids - simply from making decisions I could clearly see from the outset were strategically very very flawed.

Yeah, no, I totally agree smartness is luck.  And I feel lucky, but I see Pickle saying that his success is all down to him working hard, and that is what is most offensive to me, really, is that he doesn't get it at all.

[Freeky]

Like voting for the good of oligarchs, ie, the tea party, instead of in their own interest.



Best part about idiots, is they can drag us down with them.  They're generous, that way.

I am favoring Nigel's theory that we're in the middle of an evolutionary split, myself.  It won't help us, but at least I can say that I'm not actually one of them.

[Disco Pickle]

I realize that despite the deficit handed to me by my parents, I am extremely fortunate that despite making really bad choices they were still very intelligent people and encouraged me to read everything I could get my hands on.  I'd be a lot worse off had that not been the case.  In fact, I'd probably either be in prison or dead.  

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Being born smarter than some of the other monkeys is luck, too. I know it's not popular when I say this, but if you consider that most people are "average" and then examine what that means, well, after the vomiting and shaking stops you had damn well better thank your FUCKING LUCKY-ASS stars that you're a little bit smarter. Because I can guarantee you that every monkey on this board is smarter than average, probably by a fair bit, and that means that our ability to find patterns, make associations, plan for contingencies, solve problems in creative ways, and to learn in general is, through no real doing of our own, significantly better than the average monkey.

It might sound like elitism, but the bottom line for me is that when I realized that, rather than looking down on the poor fucks who didn't win the brain lottery, I feel holy shit lucky as hell. Because if I'm struggling, they would be doomed, and I've seen people go down in flames - losing their home, job, losing custody of their kids - simply from making decisions I could clearly see from the outset were strategically very very flawed.

Yeah, no, I totally agree smartness is luck.  And I feel lucky, but I see Pickle saying that his success is all down to him working hard, and that is what is most offensive to me, really, is that he doesn't get it at all.

I agree with you completely.

He thinks that if he did it, anyone can. He no doubt sees himself as starting "with nothing", but isn't acknowledging that he actually had some pretty major advantages. Starting with brains, which are not distributed equally. Basic nutrition and early childhood nurturing have an affect on intelligence, so he probably wasn't starved or neglected as an infant or toddler. He's male and white, which are fairly significant advantages.

In short, he's not accurately representative of "anyone". Or even of "any American".

[Doktor Howl]

Like voting for the good of oligarchs, ie, the tea party, instead of in their own interest.



Best part about idiots, is they can drag us down with them.  They're generous, that way.

I am favoring Nigel's theory that we're in the middle of an evolutionary split, myself.  It won't help us, but at least I can say that I'm not actually one of them.

There are three kinds of people that vote for the Tea Party:

1.  Very rich people ($350,000/year and up).  This makes sense for them, as they are voting their interest.

2.  The "pre-rich".  Translation:  Dupes.  They are legion, and they march under the banner of HERPADERP.

3.  Racists who literally froth at the mouth because a Black dude got into the oval office.

There no exceptions to this.

[Freeky]

I realize that despite the deficit handed to me by my parents, I am extremely fortunate that despite making really bad choices they were still very intelligent people and encouraged me to read everything I could get my hands on.  I'd be a lot worse off had that not been the case.  In fact, I'd probably either be in prison or dead.  

I doubt it would be anything so dramatic as that.  You'd just be where the rest of us who are living in debt are.

And don't be all like "MY PARENTS GAVE ME THEIR DEBT" either, that is whinging of the highest order compared to everything else you have.  From what you have said about your job, I expect you'll pull yourself out of that hole someday, won't you?  Do you think everyone else can, too?

[Doktor Howl]

I realize that despite the deficit handed to me by my parents, I am extremely fortunate that despite making really bad choices they were still very intelligent people and encouraged me to read everything I could get my hands on.  I'd be a lot worse off had that not been the case.  In fact, I'd probably either be in prison or dead.  

I doubt it would be anything so dramatic as that.  You'd just be where the rest of us who are living in debt are.

And don't be all like "MY PARENTS GAVE ME THEIR DEBT" either, that is whinging of the highest order compared to everything else you have.  From what you have said about your job, I expect you'll pull yourself out of that hole someday, won't you?  Do you think everyone else can, too?

Debt isn't hereditary.

Yet.  Give the right wing some time.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I realize that despite the deficit handed to me by my parents, I am extremely fortunate that despite making really bad choices they were still very intelligent people and encouraged me to read everything I could get my hands on.  I'd be a lot worse off had that not been the case.  In fact, I'd probably either be in prison or dead.  

Bingo.

That was my ace in the hole, too, and it took me a long time to understand and appreciate my pure good luck in being handed that card at birth. It's the answer to "why did I make it, when so many other girls ended up on the streets, on drugs, dead, or with five kids in a trailer?"

[Freeky]

Being born smarter than some of the other monkeys is luck, too. I know it's not popular when I say this, but if you consider that most people are "average" and then examine what that means, well, after the vomiting and shaking stops you had damn well better thank your FUCKING LUCKY-ASS stars that you're a little bit smarter. Because I can guarantee you that every monkey on this board is smarter than average, probably by a fair bit, and that means that our ability to find patterns, make associations, plan for contingencies, solve problems in creative ways, and to learn in general is, through no real doing of our own, significantly better than the average monkey.

It might sound like elitism, but the bottom line for me is that when I realized that, rather than looking down on the poor fucks who didn't win the brain lottery, I feel holy shit lucky as hell. Because if I'm struggling, they would be doomed, and I've seen people go down in flames - losing their home, job, losing custody of their kids - simply from making decisions I could clearly see from the outset were strategically very very flawed.

Yeah, no, I totally agree smartness is luck.  And I feel lucky, but I see Pickle saying that his success is all down to him working hard, and that is what is most offensive to me, really, is that he doesn't get it at all.

I agree with you completely.

He thinks that if he did it, anyone can. He no doubt sees himself as starting "with nothing", but isn't acknowledging that he actually had some pretty major advantages. Starting with brains, which are not distributed equally. Basic nutrition and early childhood nurturing have an affect on intelligence, so he probably wasn't starved or neglected as an infant or toddler. He's male and white, which are fairly significant advantages.

In short, he's not accurately representative of "anyone". Or even of "any American".

I think Pickle could work his way past the whole rags-to-riches for everyone thing, see where his thinking is flawed.  I really think he can do it.  Obviously, it'll take time and help, but still, he's smart enough.