The sorry state of 'murrican education.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The sheer inability to process the available information is what gets me. I'm just like, really? I give up.

[Cain]

On the other hand, DiL....see all those guys saying "the worst of it is over, we'll be back in shape in a couple of years".  Guess what they were saying a couple of years ago?  Something something green shoots of recovery something.  The banking system is an unstable clusterfuck, the Eurozone is one small, angry country's default away from economic catastrophe, the US cant even carry out a simple administrative procedure without one party trying to implode the world economy and China aint looking too good these days either.

Just last week, experts from the IMF were saying this was the most dangerous time for the global economy since Bear Stearns in 2008.  We've been seeing financial patterns of instability which seem to suggest another 2008 style collapse is very close.  The best solution that has been come up with is "quantative easing", aka throwing money at the problem.  All that has done so far is give a few month's breathing space before more money is printed.

Meanwhile, jobs continue to be lost.  When jobs are created, they are invariably under the replenishment level, the number of extra jobs needed due to population growth, meaning a net job loss.  And with the current flavour of response being "austerity", money is being actively removed from the economy in order to keep the loans ratings agencies (Moody's, Fitch and S&P - the same people who rated the junk subprime loans as Triple A, helping to cause the financial crisis) from raping the country and making it insanely expensive to borrow money.  Problem is, austerity reduces the economic base of the country, usually by laying off civil service workers in large numbers, who then make the job situation even worse.

[LMNO]

Nicely summed in three paragraphs, Cain.

[Drunken Monkey Cabal]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

What is wrong with your brain?

[Drunken Monkey Cabal]

A lot. why?

Is me asking questions in a polite manner, or trying to understand in some way offensive to you?

[kingyak]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?


Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

New jobs are only created when there's new demand. Less jobs = less demand, no matter how many tax cuts you give the rich.

[Doktor Howl]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

30,000 jobs are being sent overseas per month.

CEOs are now whining that they can't bring them back because of lack of infrastructure and skilled tradesmen.  That would be because we spent all of our income building infrastructure on Iraq, and because nobody wants to apprentice to a  trade that CAN'T FIND WORK HERE.

Right now, 90% of the fish you eat is from China.  EVERYTHING you wear comes from the far East, mostly China.  Yeah, goods are still being produced...ELSEWHERE.

Now, I gotta ask you, if there's a demand for, say, tractors...You're saying that someone should just start a tractor factory?

[Cain]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

Oh, Christ.

Start here.

The banks knew they were selling bullshit.  They betted against it, in secret, while telling their clients that what they were selling was really great and wouldn't cause the economy to implode or anything.  They knew otherwise, and kept on selling them, because they were getting rich.  It was fraud, basically.

And then, when the economy did implode, what happened?  A few dozen banks went under, but the rest...oh the rest got lots and lots of free money given to them.  Trillions, all over the world.  Government's aren't on the edge of ruin because of irresponsible spending.  They're on the edge of ruin because they spent lots of money bailing the banks out, and the banks said "thanks" and sat on that money instead of lending it.

If companies cant get loans, they cannot afford to expand.  If they cannot afford to expand, they cannot afford to employ more people.  As budgets shrink, there is less money to spend on goods, reducing demand.  Banks are also gambling public money on what are called commodity indexes - that is, indexes dealing with the price of goods like food and fuel.  Noticed how heating, bread and fuel costs are going up and up, above inflation and year on year?

So people are earning less, but everything is getting more expensive.  What do you do in that situation?  You spend less.  Demand drops.  The suppliers earn less, causing them to cut back and lay off more staff, helping fuel unemployment.  It's a vicious circle, from top to bottom.

[LMNO]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

What is wrong with your brain?

To be fair, if you read back on DiL's old posts, he actually seems to be trying to use his brain this time around.

I feel that this should be encouraged.

[Doktor Howl]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

What is wrong with your brain?

To be fair, if you read back on DiL's old posts, he actually seems to be trying to use his brain this time around.

I feel that this should be encouraged.

No, I think he's just replaced the old meme-plex with a different one.

[kingyak]

But at what point will the economy bottom out. I don't understand how it cannot bottom out, from simple supply and demand no?

I understand that everything is going to shit, and will still go to shit,  but surely at some point, by the simple fact that one person is employed will in fact spawn more jobs no?



Roger, what do you mean by utterly plundered. Goods are still being produced, people still need to eat, so what physically has been looted?

Oh, Christ.

Start here.

The banks knew they were selling bullshit.  They betted against it, in secret, while telling their clients that what they were selling was really great and wouldn't cause the economy to implode or anything.  They knew otherwise, and kept on selling them, because they were getting rich.  It was fraud, basically.

And then, when the economy did implode, what happened?  A few dozen banks went under, but the rest...oh the rest got lots and lots of free money given to them.  Trillions, all over the world.  Government's aren't on the edge of ruin because of irresponsible spending.  They're on the edge of ruin because they spent lots of money bailing the banks out, and the banks said "thanks" and sat on that money instead of lending it.

If companies cant get loans, they cannot afford to expand.  If they cannot afford to expand, they cannot afford to employ more people.  As budgets shrink, there is less money to spend on goods, reducing demand.  Banks are also gambling public money on what are called commodity indexes - that is, indexes dealing with the price of goods like food and fuel.  Noticed how heating, bread and fuel costs are going up and up, above inflation and year on year?

So people are earning less, but everything is getting more expensive.  What do you do in that situation?  You spend less.  Demand drops.  The suppliers earn less, causing them to cut back and lay off more staff, helping fuel unemployment.  It's a vicious circle, from top to bottom.

And what did they do to the money we gave them (other than hand out huge bonuses)? They used a lot of it to buy government bonds. So instead of loaning it in a way that would spur spending and business expansion, they loaned it right back to the government, at a higher interest rate than what they'd borrowed it from the government at.  

[Cain]

They also had their best quarterly profits EVER for the first three months of 2009.

[Doktor Howl]

Short version:  The means of production still exist, but the method of counting production has failed.

And monkeys won't make it if they can't count it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A lot. why?

Is me asking questions in a polite manner, or trying to understand in some way offensive to you?

No. It's just that the compound stupidity that's been flooding into this forum has finally gotten me down, and instead of explaining what seems pitifully obvious, using little words, I just want to give up, curl into a little ball, and cry.

There is no hope for humanity. None. And you are just one of billions of examples why.