Generation Y

[Nephew Twiddleton]

MODERATOR NOTE: THREAD MERGE SNAFU! This thread is a little out of sequence. Nephew Twid's post belongs after the two posts which follow it.    -Cramulus

Interesting.

It's true that I'm 30 and unmarried because I didn't want to end up making a stupid mistake that ends in divorce, like what happened with my parents.

And, I do enjoy some of the same music that my parents do.

A funny moment happened when I was in high school and my mom was giving me a lift somewhere and Led Zeppelin came on the radio, and we both reached for the volume knob at the same time. We had a good laugh over that.

The opposite occurred when I was hung over and I woke up to this loud, hard to discern noise coming from the living room. I come downstairs to see what the fuck is going on cuz my head was pounding, and my stepfather is listening to my demo at full volume.  

[Cramulus]

MODERATOR NOTE: THREAD MERGE SNAFU! This post is the OP, assholes!    -Cramulus

I originally posted this in the Occupy thread, but it's a bit off-topic, and I thought we might enjoy chewing on it.

In that thread, we were talking about Generation X, and I wanted to bring up the term "Generation Y". I kind of prefer "The Millenials", over "Generation Y" or the "Echo Boomers", because can't we/they have our own definition that's not just "the guys who came after those other guys"?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Y

The rough general consensus is that the Millenials start around 1982. (putting me right at the cusp between X and Y.)

Generation Y is a marketing term, so it really only discusses this generation in terms of its consumer habits. But that in itself is really interesting.




They also get called the "Peter Pan Generation" due to the tendency to delay adulthood rituals really far.

some Millennials are delaying the transition from childhood to adulthood as a response to mistakes made by their parents. "In prior generations, you get married and you start a career and you do that immediately. What young people today are seeing is that approach has led to divorces, to people unhappy with their careers ... The majority want to get married [...] they just want to do it right the first time, the same thing with their careers."

On Religion

In the United States, Generation Y has a slightly lower level of religiosity to older generations, and they are more likely to be skeptical of religious institutions.[67] A 2005 study looked at 1,385 people aged 18 to 25 and found that over half of those in the study said that they pray regularly before a meal. A third said that they talked about religion with friends, attend places of worship, and read religious materials weekly. 23% of those studied did not identify themselves as belonging to a religious affiliation.

I found this claim interesting:

Generation Y'ers never truly rebelled against their parents, unlike prior generations, often enjoying the same music, movies and products as their parents

[Cramulus]

more snippets from the article-------- to be clear, my notes will be in Red

The first appearance of "Generation Y"

When the term originated in 1993, it referred to teenagers aged 13 to 19 at the time (born between 1974 and 1980) with "more to come over the next 10 years". Here is a verbatim reprint of the actual Advertising Age op ed. of August 30, 1993 -- the above erroneous information notwithstanding:

"That cynical, purple-haired blob watching TV, otherwise known as Generation X, has been giving marketers fits for a long time. He doesn't respond to advertising, isn't brand-loyal and probably doesn't have much discretionary income, i.e. a job. But help is on the way. Following this angry young adult generation is a group of teens-agers who are leaving Generation X at the gate. There are 27 million of these 13-to-19-year-olds spending $ 95 billion a year, and both numbers will rise in the next 10 years. As our headline last week pointed out, this group is interested in real life, real solutions.

"Teens care -- about AIDS, race relations, child abuse and abortion. But instead of saying, I got screwed, they say, What am I going to do about it? They like to volunteer and they respond to marketers who they can believe are helping make the world better. There are other differences with Generation X. Male teens read and don't spend all their time in front of the TV. A Roper survey showed that 83% of male teens read a major magazine at least once every four weeks, and 43% subscribe to a magazine. Comic books and place-based media are good ways to reach teens. If they're over 16, they listen to radio.

"OK, they like to shop for price and dump a brand if it gets costly. In personal care products especially, teens look for bargains. But Jane Grossman, Seventeen publisher, says they love brands and trust advertising more than any other group.

"That advertising can address them honestly and seriously without their tuning out. The Gap, Reebok and Bausch & Lomb are but three of the marketers that speak to teens without condescending to hip-hop language to do it. And they are reaping the benefits, proving again there are no smarter consumers than our average teen-agers, and no smarter marketers than those who speak honestly to them."

I've read elsewhere that Generation Y has a strong resistance to direct advertising. They hate when they realize they're being pitched at. Subtler advertising techniques have a greater effect. -Cram


The Trophy Generation

The Millennials are sometimes called the "Trophy Generation", or "Trophy Kids,"[62] a term that reflects the trend in competitive sports, as well as many other aspects of life, where mere participation is frequently enough for a reward. It has been reported that this is an issue in corporate environments.[62] Some employers are concerned that Millennials have too great expectations from the workplace.[63] Studies predict that Generation Y will switch jobs frequently, holding far more than Generation X due to their great expectations.

My elementary school had a "field day", in which everybody in the school competed in relay races, obstacle courses, kickball, and other outdoorsy activities. In the end, everybody got the same blue ribbon: PARTICIPANT. I think I threw mine out about an hour later. -Cram

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Hey Cram, could you split out my response to your post in Occupy and put it here?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I wonder, is the whole trophy thing part of encouraging them to get out and do something, or is it just to make everyone feel special?

[Cramulus]

I wonder, is the whole trophy thing part of encouraging them to get out and do something, or is it just to make everyone feel special?

at my school, I think it was so that nobody would feel like a loser because they can't kick a ball. I think the real point of the day was to give teacher's a break in early June, but it does play into the "we need to raise kids with high self esteem" vibe going on in American education in the 80s/90s.

The other day, I was thinking about how as a kid, you're constantly being hit with these "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE WHEN YOU GROW UP" signals. And the images that they show you are of high accomplishers - you could be a doctor, or an astronaut, or a rock star. And you can do anything you set your mind to!

These images always bring Tyler Durden to mind.

Tyler Durden: Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yeah, I remember my dad pressuring me to go to college, and then when I started up the paperwork for it, he'd ask what I was going to major in.

History.
What are you going to do with that?
Uh, Classics.
What are you going to do with that?

And so forth.

What he wanted me to say was Pre-med or Law. I hate blood. And I sure as hell didn't want to be a lawyer.

Then, I didn't end up going to college until I was 25 and picking History anyway.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Of course, I did have my eyes set on the rock star thing, and listening to the radio and being progressively more annoyed with what I heard, I figured any jackass could make it.

Sure, as long as there aren't a million other me's trying to do the same thing.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"we need to raise kids with high self esteem" vibe going on in American education in the 80s/90s.

Fuck self-esteem.  What's needed is fucking self respect, and that is accomplished not by lowering the standards in all things, but rather in finding what individual people are actually talented at, and reinforcing that.  So, the kid is 90 pounds and can't throw a football?  See if he's a better fit on the math team or in an art class, as far as aiming the kid at things to excel in.

And as far as suffering through gym class, well, life is tough and you have to try things you aren't good at.  If you don't learn that at 8-12 years old, you are FUCKED when you blunder out into the real world, however delayed that might be these days.

[Cramulus]

Of course, I did have my eyes set on the rock star thing, and listening to the radio and being progressively more annoyed with what I heard, I figured any jackass could make it.

Sure, as long as there aren't a million other me's trying to do the same thing.

I was talking to a cabalmate the other day about finding a new hobby together.

What about painting?

Nah, there are so many painters out there, we couldn't compete.

What about making T-shirts?

No, there are like millions of people who make t-shirts.

What about XYZ

I don't know if that'd be rewarding, there's already such a large group of people producing XYZ

eventually I was like, dude, why do you feel you have to be the alpha supreme of whatever hobby we pick? Can't we just make t-shirts because it's fun, not because we want to make a million bucks?  It'd be cool to see people wearing our gear, isn't that enough? I want a hobby, not a new job, damnit!

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Of course, I did have my eyes set on the rock star thing, and listening to the radio and being progressively more annoyed with what I heard, I figured any jackass could make it.

Sure, as long as there aren't a million other me's trying to do the same thing.

I was talking to a cabalmate the other day about finding a new hobby together.

What about painting?

Nah, there are so many painters out there, we couldn't compete.

What about making T-shirts?

No, there are like millions of people who make t-shirts.

What about XYZ

I don't know if that'd be rewarding, there's already such a large group of people producing XYZ

eventually I was like, dude, why do you feel you have to be the alpha supreme of whatever hobby we pick? Can't we just make t-shirts because it's fun, not because we want to make a million bucks?  It'd be cool to see people wearing our gear, isn't that enough? I want a hobby, not a new job, damnit!

Heh, I agree with you there, though I would like music to be my job (part of the reason why I'm branching out into Irish folk).

[Cramulus]

"we need to raise kids with high self esteem" vibe going on in American education in the 80s/90s.

Fuck self-esteem.  What's needed is fucking self respect, and that is accomplished not by lowering the standards in all things, but rather in finding what individual people are actually talented at, and reinforcing that.  So, the kid is 90 pounds and can't throw a football?  See if he's a better fit on the math team or in an art class, as far as aiming the kid at things to excel in.

And as far as suffering through gym class, well, life is tough and you have to try things you aren't good at.  If you don't learn that at 8-12 years old, you are FUCKED when you blunder out into the real world, however delayed that might be these days.

That's a really good slicing of that idea, focusing on self-respect rather than self-esteem. I definitely don't see a lot of self-respect lessons being taught in school... that was something that always seemed unclear to me as a kid. My parents would always say "pick your battles" when I got all worked up about a teacher treating us like shit. Like, you can't possibly beat the system, so it's a lot safer to be a quiet serf. Humility, obedience to authority, etc. Well bollocks to that!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"we need to raise kids with high self esteem" vibe going on in American education in the 80s/90s.

Fuck self-esteem.  What's needed is fucking self respect, and that is accomplished not by lowering the standards in all things, but rather in finding what individual people are actually talented at, and reinforcing that.  So, the kid is 90 pounds and can't throw a football?  See if he's a better fit on the math team or in an art class, as far as aiming the kid at things to excel in.

And as far as suffering through gym class, well, life is tough and you have to try things you aren't good at.  If you don't learn that at 8-12 years old, you are FUCKED when you blunder out into the real world, however delayed that might be these days.

That's a really good slicing of that idea, focusing on self-respect rather than self-esteem. I definitely don't see a lot of self-respect lessons being taught in school... that was something that always seemed unclear to me as a kid. My parents would always say "pick your battles" when I got all worked up about a teacher treating us like shit. Like, you can't possibly beat the system, so it's a lot safer to be a quiet serf. Humility, obedience to authority, etc. Well bollocks to that!

While some teachers may want to inspire self-respect, their bosses have NO interest in a self-confidant population.

And "pick your battles"?  HAH!  No disrespect to your folks, but I prefer "I WILL KILL A MOTHERFUCKER".  People tend to fuck with those that "pick their battles" and steer clear of those who go nuclear before anything else has been tried.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

"we need to raise kids with high self esteem" vibe going on in American education in the 80s/90s.

Fuck self-esteem.  What's needed is fucking self respect, and that is accomplished not by lowering the standards in all things, but rather in finding what individual people are actually talented at, and reinforcing that.  So, the kid is 90 pounds and can't throw a football?  See if he's a better fit on the math team or in an art class, as far as aiming the kid at things to excel in.

And as far as suffering through gym class, well, life is tough and you have to try things you aren't good at.  If you don't learn that at 8-12 years old, you are FUCKED when you blunder out into the real world, however delayed that might be these days.

That's a really good slicing of that idea, focusing on self-respect rather than self-esteem. I definitely don't see a lot of self-respect lessons being taught in school... that was something that always seemed unclear to me as a kid. My parents would always say "pick your battles" when I got all worked up about a teacher treating us like shit. Like, you can't possibly beat the system, so it's a lot safer to be a quiet serf. Humility, obedience to authority, etc. Well bollocks to that!

Competition is a good thing as long as it doesn't go crazy. There was a good amount of competition in my school, I'd say.

That said, I was the 90 lb kid with the football. I didn't want it either, but hey, that's gym class for you.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"we need to raise kids with high self esteem" vibe going on in American education in the 80s/90s.

Fuck self-esteem.  What's needed is fucking self respect, and that is accomplished not by lowering the standards in all things, but rather in finding what individual people are actually talented at, and reinforcing that.  So, the kid is 90 pounds and can't throw a football?  See if he's a better fit on the math team or in an art class, as far as aiming the kid at things to excel in.

And as far as suffering through gym class, well, life is tough and you have to try things you aren't good at.  If you don't learn that at 8-12 years old, you are FUCKED when you blunder out into the real world, however delayed that might be these days.

That's a really good slicing of that idea, focusing on self-respect rather than self-esteem. I definitely don't see a lot of self-respect lessons being taught in school... that was something that always seemed unclear to me as a kid. My parents would always say "pick your battles" when I got all worked up about a teacher treating us like shit. Like, you can't possibly beat the system, so it's a lot safer to be a quiet serf. Humility, obedience to authority, etc. Well bollocks to that!

Competition is a good thing as long as it doesn't go crazy. There was a good amount of competition in my school, I'd say.

That said, I was the 90 lb kid with the football. I didn't want it either, but hey, that's gym class for you.

Any educational program should include a slice of misery.

Just saying.

TGRR,
Was also the 90 pound kid with 10 thumbs.