America without the TM

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Well like i said means is different. Another obstacle for me leaving boston i s that boston doesnt let you save much money.

[Doktor Howl]

Well like i said means is different. Another obstacle for me leaving boston i s that boston doesnt let you save much money.

WE'VE GOT TO GET OUT OF ZIS TRRRAP!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Patriotism is bullshit. And Amercan Exceptionalism, as a form of patriotism, is more bullshit than most. Congratulations, you won the "arbitrary lines on a map drawn by powerbrokers" lottery. Only not really, because your country is basically mired in dicks and there are no shortage of random map areas that enjoy better standards of living and aren't full of mouthbreathing dickweeds. And if that isn't bad enough, you go to other places and export your mouthbreathing dickweedness until they're just as ruined as the rest of the empire. And then you won't even do the proper thing and fuck off and turn us loose so we can suckle up to the much more generous and less "strings attached" chinese teat like all the banana republics that didn't interest you 100 years ago get to do.

Seriously, the whole concept of AMERICA can go fuck itself. It barely deserved its first day in the sun and it clearly hasn't done anything to earn a resurgence.

A FUCKING MEN!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

While i agree that nationality is just accident of birth most people do have the opportunity to not live within that nation state and also have the option to change their nationality. Means to do so is a different thing of course.

How is "opportunity" different from "means" in this context?

If most people do not have the means, do they really have the opportunity?

Most people on this planet do not have the means, and therefore do not have the opportunity to emigrate to another nation-state, even if  their nation-state has laws which permit emigration, and there is another country which is willing to accept them.

And most countries do not willingly accept immigrants with no money and minimal education, so that rules out "most".

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Bad use of terms i admit. What i mean is legal ability. For example for me to acquire the means to leave boston i would have to get a second and possibly weekend job until i was ready for the move. Which might be necessary to remove my attachment to begin with.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Bad use of terms i admit. What i mean is legal ability. For example for me to acquire the means to leave boston i would have to get a second and possibly weekend job until i was ready for the move. Which might be necessary to remove my attachment to begin with.

OK, but I think you may be projecting a type of "opportunity" onto everyone that does not actually exist for most of the world's population. It may be "legal" for me to buy a ten million dollar house, but that does not actually mean that I have the opportunity.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Bad use of terms i admit. What i mean is legal ability. For example for me to acquire the means to leave boston i would have to get a second and possibly weekend job until i was ready for the move. Which might be necessary to remove my attachment to begin with.

OK, but I think you may be projecting a type of "opportunity" onto everyone that does not actually exist for most of the world's population.

Fair enough. Anyway, within the post of this context, I meant more that since you can technically choose your country, you can choose to be patriotic about a country that you otherwise have nothing to do with. I dunno, I'm my brain's fried. I wanted to go to be 4 hours ago.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Bad use of terms i admit. What i mean is legal ability. For example for me to acquire the means to leave boston i would have to get a second and possibly weekend job until i was ready for the move. Which might be necessary to remove my attachment to begin with.

OK, but I think you may be projecting a type of "opportunity" onto everyone that does not actually exist for most of the world's population.

Fair enough. Anyway, within the post of this context, I meant more that since you can technically choose your country, you can choose to be patriotic about a country that you otherwise have nothing to do with. I dunno, I'm my brain's fried. I wanted to go to be 4 hours ago.

GO TO BE!

[Phox]

Patriotism is bullshit. And Amercan Exceptionalism, as a form of patriotism, is more bullshit than most. Congratulations, you won the "arbitrary lines on a map drawn by powerbrokers" lottery. Only not really, because your country is basically mired in dicks and there are no shortage of random map areas that enjoy better standards of living and aren't full of mouthbreathing dickweeds. And if that isn't bad enough, you go to other places and export your mouthbreathing dickweedness until they're just as ruined as the rest of the empire. And then you won't even do the proper thing and fuck off and turn us loose so we can suckle up to the much more generous and less "strings attached" chinese teat like all the banana republics that didn't interest you 100 years ago get to do.

Seriously, the whole concept of AMERICA can go fuck itself. It barely deserved its first day in the sun and it clearly hasn't done anything to earn a resurgence.

This post... it makes me want to build a shrine to ECH in my closet upon which I may charge my sigils. 

While i agree that nationality is just accident of birth most people do have the opportunity to not live within that nation state and also have the option to change their nationality. Means to do so is a different thing of course.

How is "opportunity" different from "means" in this context?

If most people do not have the means, do they really have the opportunity?

Most people on this planet do not have the means, and therefore do not have the opportunity to emigrate to another nation-state, even if  their nation-state has laws which permit emigration, and there is another country which is willing to accept them.

And most countries do not willingly accept immigrants with no money and minimal education, so that rules out "most".

Quite right, Nigel. For some reason, I am thinking of Germany's issues with Turkish immigration in the past, which even when Turkish immigrants were legally allowed in, there was still plenty of issues with social and economic limitations, but I don't really know a whole lot more than that. I'm sure Cain probably does and Trip might, though. 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I went to be so i couldnt sleep within the post of the context. Reattempting after some water and a toothbrushing.

[Cain]

Basically, nationalism is silly, whether it's of the "rah rah, long live the Empire" kind, or the "my country can do better" kind.

In fact, I would, in my typically contrarian manner, posit the latter is in fact more insidious and therefore the greater evil.  The latter reinforces attachment, on an emotional level, a desire to "reform" and "improve" and "humanize" a system which, as ECH so eloquently pointed out, acts with the enlightened self-interest of a meth addict during the terminal stage, trying to score yet another hit and relive the good times, baby.

[minuspace]

America has been known to import Liberian refugees.