Question about punk rock from non-punk bands

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Beethoven was the first punk rocker.

Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).

Seriously? The Clash are pure London punk. Bands like Rancid, and the Ska Punk genre would pretty much not exist without the fusion of punk and reggae that was what they pioneered, and was a utterly British, wouldn't have happened in any other geographical location. You may not like them, but their influence is undeniable,   If you had said "fuck the Sex Pistols!" I would have said "hells yea!", but The Clash? For the British music scene from 1977 onwards, they have influenced a lot of the different genres of music that came out of the UK between then and the late 1990's. and not just rock music, but dance genres as well..  You take The Clash out of the British music scene and all you'd have left is commercialised soulless crap.  And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.

[LMNO]

And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.

And then Suu challenged Pixie to a duel.


But srsly Dimo, fuck the Clash?  Have you been reading Lester Bangs again?

[East Coast Hustle]

Beethoven was the first punk rocker.

Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).

Seriously? The Clash are pure London punk. Bands like Rancid, and the Ska Punk genre would pretty much not exist without the fusion of punk and reggae that was what they pioneered, and was a utterly British, wouldn't have happened in any other geographical location. You may not like them, but their influence is undeniable,   If you had said "fuck the Sex Pistols!" I would have said "hells yea!", but The Clash? For the British music scene from 1977 onwards, they have influenced a lot of the different genres of music that came out of the UK between then and the late 1990's. and not just rock music, but dance genres as well..  You take The Clash out of the British music scene and all you'd have left is commercialised soulless crap.  And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.

Pix, punk and reggae both descended from ska. The Clash, as awesome as they were, were only "pioneers" to white people who had never heard of Jamaica.

[Suu]

And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.

And then Suu challenged Pixie to a duel.

Meh, she's allowed her opinion.

The only person who I deliberately give shit to about music is ECH, but it's become one of our favorite pastimes.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Beethoven was the first punk rocker.

Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).

Seriously? The Clash are pure London punk. Bands like Rancid, and the Ska Punk genre would pretty much not exist without the fusion of punk and reggae that was what they pioneered, and was a utterly British, wouldn't have happened in any other geographical location. You may not like them, but their influence is undeniable,   If you had said "fuck the Sex Pistols!" I would have said "hells yea!", but The Clash? For the British music scene from 1977 onwards, they have influenced a lot of the different genres of music that came out of the UK between then and the late 1990's. and not just rock music, but dance genres as well..  You take The Clash out of the British music scene and all you'd have left is commercialised soulless crap.  And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.

Pix, punk and reggae both descended from ska. The Clash, as awesome as they were, were only "pioneers" to white people who had never heard of Jamaica.

I shall concede your point there. 

Still, the Clash are responsible for broadening a whole load of white kid's horizons, which isn't a bad thing at all.

[Cuddlefish]

"CBS promotes the Clash, but it aint for revolution, it's just for cash" - Crass, Punk is Dead

Fake punk is fake, even if it is early fake punk.

[Cuddlefish]

And, yeah, fuck the Sex Pistols, as well. Them and The Clash were just fishing for the angsty-teen dollar.

Once more: Crass and Exploited is what early punk is all about. Can't handle that brute fact? Keep spinning your cotton-candy Clash records.

[hooplala]

But who exactly pioneered punk?

The Ramones?

The sound, or the ethos?

The ethos has been around for a long time.  Prometheus was a punk.

The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.

One could make an argument that "Sister Ray" by the Velvet Underground was a punk song, but yeah.  Actually, I've never heard of Blue Cheer... something to go look up...

[hooplala]

But who exactly pioneered punk?

The Ramones?

The sound, or the ethos?

The ethos has been around for a long time.  Prometheus was a punk.

The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.

Lord Buckley.

FUCK YES.

[hooplala]

My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges...  I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.

And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are.  They fucking are.

[Cuddlefish]

My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges...  I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.

And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are.  They fucking are.

Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges...  I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.

And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are.  They fucking are.

Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.

Rock the Cashbox?

[East Coast Hustle]

And, yeah, fuck the Sex Pistols, as well. Them and The Clash were just fishing for the angsty-teen dollar.

Once more: Crass and Exploited is what early punk is all about. Can't handle that brute fact? Keep spinning your cotton-candy Clash records.

Crass and Exploited were fun bands, but to me they're more the "fake" punk than the Clash was. I guess it depends on whether you view "punk" as being a "voice for the underclass" thing or a "we're tired of listening to our parents" thing.

Either way, it all descended from Buddy Holly.

[Cuddlefish]

My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges...  I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.

And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are.  They fucking are.

Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.

Rock the Cashbox?

Exactly.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges...  I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.

And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are.  They fucking are.

Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.

Rock the Cashbox?

Exactly.

I also apologize if that's stuck in everyone's head now like it is in mine.