How most men, even good caring men, have no clue what women go through

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm not sure what you are arguing, Stella, or why you are trying to make her look stupid or wrong. She is neither.

I'm curious about who these people are who consider some forms of assault "legitimate", advise girls to be nice to strangers (can you picture anyone telling their daughters that???), say to "give men the benefit of the doubt" when they try to pick you up on a train, etc.

I genuinely want to know where she gets the idea that this is the norm.

Aren't you always telling us how awful Seguin is? You can probably start on that by looking outside. Go to Wal-Mart. Turn on the TV.

I don't even get it HERE. I had everybody behind me on the library pervert incident, which I've probably related here a couple of times. Nobody ever gave me a hard time for telling anybody to fuck off and I don't even know how many times I've done it here. A lot.

In fact, it's arguably just the opposite, if I was to tolerate every Tom, Dick and Harry walking up and trying to fuck me, I'd probably get slut shamed. Not that that's the right way to handle somebody with boundary issues, but it does happen to messed up women in small towns.

I have a hard time believing that Seguin doesn't have issues with sexism and male entitlement, and cultural condonement such as people looking the other way when a guy rapes or beats  his lady, but if it really is that much more enlightened than the rest of the country it could be a small-town microculture thing.

I also can't help but think that all these guys "walking up and trying to fuck" you also somewhat betrays that the problem is alive and well in Seguin.

[The Wizard Joseph]

How blessed he was that you would take the time to talk to him, Faust.

About the time I registered to this site I came about a hairs breath away from being that guy. Unless someone is flashing their knob, grabbing, or shitting themselves I think the bus example is a bad one.

I agree at this point.  It would seem to me that the article is more about social fear and the bit at the end:

So when people (men) want to talk about "legitimate" forms of assault, tell girls they should be nice to strangers and give men the benefit of a doubt, tell them to consider it a compliment, tell them to ignore the bad behavior of men, I want them to be forced to feel, for even one minute, what it feels like to have so much verbal hatred and physical intimidation thrown at them for nothing more than being female and not wanting to share. 

I just wanted to read my book.

It's not my fault I'm pretty.

is intentionally inflammatory, mildly ego-centric, and misses the actual cause of the violent outburst.
Dude was on the edge, almost certainly mentally ill.  That it manifested as a horrible exaggeration of unfortunate (but IN NO WAY uniform) social norms is beside the point to me.  It is also possible, just possible, that the story is "based on a true story" and intended to draw people to a blog and insert a political quip.

I believe from personal experience that introversion is among the worst of all social defenses. If she's pretending to read to avoid contact with males that she is so certain are only interested in (her) sexuality then is seems like an anxiety issue. 

The complaint is not invalid.  Women are OFTEN harassed in situations where exit is not an immediate option. Some of the toughest chicks I know are masters of getting past that and seeing what these folks are into. Then telling them to go away if appropriate.

...

this is the kind of second-guessing and denial of someone else's experience that I was talking about.

It also seems to ignore the likelihood that the particular form that the man's expression of mental illness took was, in itself, shaped by a culture of entitlement. His entire outburst revolves around it.

I find it odd that you find it so unbelievable, and that much more disheartened. If I had a nickel for every "fuck you, bitch!" or similar sentiment... usually given simply because I don't engage... I'd be able to buy an Ipad, at least. 

I'm not even going to touch your "pretending to read" comment. That's beyond condescending.

Yeah, I just went over the article again and appear to have had a data fuckup in my head about the "pretending to read." She was pretending to perhaps be married.

I bring a book, pointedly wear a ring on my ring finger to imply I'm married (I'm not) and keep to myself. 

I think it got mixed in with something in the thread about similar behavior, but can't go looking for it right now. I have to go soon, or I would.
I didn't mean it like she couldn't read. My bad. 
She still seems pre-occupied with the problem though.

It is not that I find the story unbelievable.  It think it is most likely true.  It seems frankly tame compared to the badness that goes on in the world. 

The thing about a mentally ill person is that the outburst would have happened under any presentation of the appropriate stress.  That it manifested THIS way surely is a picture of an equally sick society.  I tried to put myself in his shoes just slightly and they are nasty so I'm not inclined to going there again.

I also nearly always second guess experiences related to me in print.  I have a need to see and hear, preferably first hand, to avoid the tendency.  Paranoia... is a nasty habit of mine and I'm working on it.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'm not sure what you are arguing, Stella, or why you are trying to make her look stupid or wrong. She is neither.

I'm curious about who these people are who consider some forms of assault "legitimate", advise girls to be nice to strangers (can you picture anyone telling their daughters that???), say to "give men the benefit of the doubt" when they try to pick you up on a train, etc.

I genuinely want to know where she gets the idea that this is the norm.

Aren't you always telling us how awful Seguin is? You can probably start on that by looking outside. Go to Wal-Mart. Turn on the TV.

I don't even get it HERE. I had everybody behind me on the library pervert incident, which I've probably related here a couple of times. Nobody ever gave me a hard time for telling anybody to fuck off and I don't even know how many times I've done it here. A lot.

In fact, it's arguably just the opposite, if I was to tolerate every Tom, Dick and Harry walking up and trying to fuck me, I'd probably get slut shamed. Not that that's the right way to handle somebody with boundary issues, but it does happen to messed up women in small towns.

I have a hard time believing that Seguin doesn't have issues with sexism and male entitlement, and cultural condonement such as people looking the other way when a guy rapes or beats  his lady, but if it really is that much more enlightened than the rest of the country it could be a small-town microculture thing.

I also can't help but think that all these guys "walking up and trying to fuck" you also somewhat betrays that the problem is alive and well in Seguin.

Well yeah, Seguin is fucked up, there's nothing enlightened about it. 

I luck out with the telling people to fuck off stuff because it puts me on the Madonna end of their little Whore-Madonna spectrum. No illusions about that.

[Bu🤠ns]

Yes, all women are more socially vulnerable to one degree or another. It has nothing to do with whether or not an individual can take care of herself and everything to do with the general society's opinion of women and females as a whole.

That just seems like over generalization. I do understand from everything I've read over the past month or so. Thing is, you could say the same thing about men in some respects but, it too would also be an over generalization.


Nigel, can you expound on what you mean by 'culture of entitlement'?

I already have so many times that I don't have it in me. I don't feel well. I'll see if I can muster it up tomorrow.

It's cool, don't worry about it.  I just went to lay down and it came back to me.  I was in a "duhhhhh' zone when I asked that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, all women are more socially vulnerable to one degree or another. It has nothing to do with whether or not an individual can take care of herself and everything to do with the general society's opinion of women and females as a whole.

That just seems like over generalization. I do understand from everything I've read over the past month or so. Thing is, you could say the same thing about men in some respects but, it too would also be an over generalization.


Nigel, can you expound on what you mean by 'culture of entitlement'?

I already have so many times that I don't have it in me. I don't feel well. I'll see if I can muster it up tomorrow.

It's cool, don't worry about it.  I just went to lay down and it came back to me.  I was in a "duhhhhh' zone when I asked that.

Cool.

[Placid Dingo]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

It might be helpful to append this question with "and how often are you out in public alone".

[Placid Dingo]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

It might be helpful to append this question with "and how often are you out in public alone".

OK, sure, ta.

All it is is that 'frequently' or 'often' isn't drawing a clear understanding in my head.

[Placid Dingo]

Also I'm getting the impression that what's being generally said is this;

There shouldn't be anything wrong with approaching someone who doesn't look like they want to be left alone if you're willing to disengage if asked.

However, its more complex in practice because women experience aggressive reactions from men being asked to leave them be, and anticipate the possibility of such a reaction.


Is this more or less the consensus?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

It might be helpful to append this question with "and how often are you out in public alone".

About that often ^

[Placid Dingo]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

It might be helpful to append this question with "and how often are you out in public alone".

About that often ^

So literally every time (or almost every time) you're out unaccompanied in public you're approached by men you don't know? Is that what you're saying?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

It might be helpful to append this question with "and how often are you out in public alone".

About that often ^

So literally every time (or almost every time) you're out unaccompanied in public you're approached by men you don't know? Is that what you're saying?

That's true for me. I've already said as much.

[Juana]

Yep.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Nigel, I wasn't calling anyone a liar so hopefully that's not what you got from my previous question.


If I can ask a question of the females;

How often in a day/week would you say you're approached by men you don't know. Specifically disregarding drunk guys at pubs/clubs. Just out of curiosity.

It might be helpful to append this question with "and how often are you out in public alone".

About that often ^

So literally every time (or almost every time) you're out unaccompanied in public you're approached by men you don't know? Is that what you're saying?

Yes.
And this is NOTHING on when I was 12-25.

[Bu🤠ns]

I'm rather curious about the other players in this scenario.  Seeing that they're all men and that it's the consensus of this board that a man can't really speak for women when it comes to feminist issues I'll instead speak to the issues that seem to be surrounding the men and their roles in the scene.

1.  The bicyclist guy.  He was screaming about his mother.  I think we should address this point as it seems to really play into the foundations by which men base their relationships with women.  Now I'm not about to psychoanalyze this guy but I don't think we should dismiss that after she rejected him, all of a sudden the scene becomes about his mother!  I'm not looking to shift blame anywhere here, but I am curious as to how much of this attitude--where a guy feels the need to call a woman a bitch under his breath after some seemingly apparent rejection--stems from deeply rooted mommy issues.  I'm wonder if issues like these manifest from a lack of a father resulting in an over-dependence on mom or similar family structural factors. 

2.  The old frail guy at the back of the car.  There seems to be this sort of unspoken protector role a guy must assume when a 'damsel is in distress' (to quote the corresponding mythological cliche).  Granted, the guy here didn't react in that manner but if I were in his shoes, I'd have felt that archetype arise inside me as I'm sure old frail guy did.  I might have even acted upon it.  I'm not sure that that unspoken role on men does either sex any good as it seems to pigeonhole both .  Take for example a man with a flat tire on the side of the road vs. a woman with a flat tire.  More men will stop for a woman than for a man, right?  Is it wrong to say that a female in need is attractive whereas a man in need is repulsive?  This, to me, seems to illustrate a greater disconnect between men and women.

3. The group of boys.  This looks like that typical pressure to perform.  These boys, after not getting any action, felt the need to demonstrate their false power in front of each other because it's absolutely HORRIBLE to appear weak in front of other boys.  The worst thing in the world is to be considered a 'pussy' or a 'girl' or a 'faggot' in front of each other.  These boys HAD to act that way because the alternative is to confront their own internal shame at the fact that they are cowards inside.  Violence doesn't come from a feeling of real power, it comes from a feeling of powerlessness.

Before you say it, I'm by no means excuse anybody's behavior in this scene.  I really want to explore the root causes of these situations rather than looking at the surface reactions and superficially say, well there's another poor victim of a male dominated society. There's much more going on here--my heart goes out to the woman because it makes me sick to know that we men have all this potential and yet act in these ways.  *She shouldn't be the one to have to face the brunt of these issues.

When it comes down to it, I'm not sure that men really have as much power as it might seem.  That is to say, if one defines power as the ability to control one's own life. 

*ETA