Police cameras

[Juana]

It does count, but it doesn't count SO much that it can indict every other department in the country.

By the same turn, your positive experience with the cops in a number of places doesn't mean that a significant portion of the rest of the country is so graced as to experience them the way you do. They don't. Listen to the poor, PoC, women, and other underprivileged groups. They'll tell you what the UN is saying, pretty much.

I dunno what to say guys, I just think this place has just sunk so far into the tales of horrormirth that it is all you guys can see, even when it isn't there.  And the problem with that, is you end up unwittingly forsaking allies, which I think is very unfortunate. 

I don't think you realize how lucky you are, when it comes to this (and I don't think anyone has said ALL COPS R BAD!!!). You're almost guaranteed to have a relatively positive experience; not everyone else is.

[Phox]

I dunno what to say guys, I just think this place has just sunk so far into the tales of horrormirth that it is all you guys can see, even when it isn't there.  And the problem with that, is you end up unwittingly forsaking allies, which I think is very unfortunate.

Nothing mirthful about administering first aid to a guy who stumbled out of a now-burning building after that nice police officer who tipped his cap to you as he drove off, and you know damn well, there's not a thing that anyone can do to save that eye. Just sayin'.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I dunno what to say guys, I just think this place has just sunk so far into the tales of horrormirth that it is all you guys can see, even when it isn't there.  And the problem with that, is you end up unwittingly forsaking allies, which I think is very unfortunate.

On the contrary. I'm an optimist. And I don't think I'm forsaking allies by saying that while not all cops are racist, and not all cops are not racist, the fact that there is still enough racism in American law enforcement for the UN to make note of it shows that it's a problem.

Hell, even if there is only one racist cop in the United States, that's still a problem. Maybe not a stereotype, but still a problem.

If anything I think you're tinting your glass a certain pink color. Which is fine, but just remember that you did it.

[AFK]

Replying to Garbo


You believe it because you want to believe it.  But think about it, if so many police departments all over the country are so awful, why do their citizens put up with it?  After all, it is their tax dollars funding their salaries.  And all of those people you talk about DO have power, if they wish to exercise it.  Or, maybe, it is because on balance their police departments do what they are supposed to do.  For sure, as with any institution that employs humans (read: every institution everywhere) the humans fuck up.  And in some cases that is at the top which yes will insulate lower level fuck-ups.  And that shit should be stamped out.


But I just don't see any practical evidence, not theories based on case-studies, but actual city-to-city, community-to-community evidence that the majority of law enforcement agencies are broken.  It just isn't there.  It's a belief based on an unbending dour outlook on the world. 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You believe it because you want to believe it.  But think about it, if so many police departments all over the country are so awful, why do their citizens put up with it?  After all, it is their tax dollars funding their salaries.  And all of those people you talk about DO have power, if they wish to exercise it.  Or, maybe, it is because on balance their police departments do what they are supposed to do.  For sure, as with any institution that employs humans (read: every institution everywhere) the humans fuck up.  And in some cases that is at the top which yes will insulate lower level fuck-ups.  And that shit should be stamped out.


But I just don't see any practical evidence, not theories based on case-studies, but actual city-to-city, community-to-community evidence that the majority of law enforcement agencies are broken.  It just isn't there.  It's a belief based on an unbending dour outlook on the world.

We're giving you the data. The data on Boston, the data on Fresno, the data on Phox's neck of the woods, Roger's old precinct....

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Also, think about it, if the government was so awful, why do their citizens put up with it?

[Cain]

What RWHN is trying to say is, if your elected officials are so terrible, why do people put up with them?  After all, your tax dollars pay for them and they are responsible to you.  You do have power, if you wish to exercise it.

[Phox]

Replying to Garbo


You believe it because you want to believe it.  But think about it, if so many police departments all over the country are so awful, why do their citizens put up with it?  After all, it is their tax dollars funding their salaries.  And all of those people you talk about DO have power, if they wish to exercise it.  Or, maybe, it is because on balance their police departments do what they are supposed to do.  For sure, as with any institution that employs humans (read: every institution everywhere) the humans fuck up.  And in some cases that is at the top which yes will insulate lower level fuck-ups.  And that shit should be stamped out.


But I just don't see any practical evidence, not theories based on case-studies, but actual city-to-city, community-to-community evidence that the majority of law enforcement agencies are broken.  It just isn't there.  It's a belief based on an unbending dour outlook on the world.

Right, because codes of silence, "protecting your own", and good old intimidation don't work out so well? And of course, the "I pay your salary" argument makes cop LESS inclined to mace you in the face for not having your license hanging out the window by the time they get there, right? 

[AFK]

I dunno what to say guys, I just think this place has just sunk so far into the tales of horrormirth that it is all you guys can see, even when it isn't there.  And the problem with that, is you end up unwittingly forsaking allies, which I think is very unfortunate.

On the contrary. I'm an optimist. And I don't think I'm forsaking allies by saying that while not all cops are racist, and not all cops are not racist, the fact that there is still enough racism in American law enforcement for the UN to make note of it shows that it's a problem.

Hell, even if there is only one racist cop in the United States, that's still a problem. Maybe not a stereotype, but still a problem.

If anything I think you're tinting your glass a certain pink color. Which is fine, but just remember that you did it.

But one must consider the chicken and the egg.  I would want the UN to look a little deeper and consider the community level racism with the departments in question.  As I said earlier in this thread, LEAs are going to some degree be reflections of their communities.  In other words, in a community that on balance tends to be hostile to minorities, it wouldn't be surprising to see officers hired from that town harboring those same feelings.


But, in the city where I work, the department has largely been able to escape that and NOT harbor any institutional racism against the refugee population.


I feel very strongly that my view on this is open and very well informed.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

What RWHN is trying to say is, if your elected officials are so terrible, why do people put up with them?  After all, your tax dollars pay for them and they are responsible to you.  You do have power, if you wish to exercise it.

And if they're not doing their job we can vote in someone more competent next time around, whether that be 2, 4, or 6 years.

[Elder Iptuous]

Well this thread has turned fabulous and all, but really....
the only way that we're going to definitively answer the question about whether all cops are sociopathic douchebags or only 90% of the cops are sociopathic douchebags is to staple some fucking cameras to their heads that they can't turn off, and stream to a server farm for use in court cases.

am i right, or am i right?!

[AFK]

You believe it because you want to believe it.  But think about it, if so many police departments all over the country are so awful, why do their citizens put up with it?  After all, it is their tax dollars funding their salaries.  And all of those people you talk about DO have power, if they wish to exercise it.  Or, maybe, it is because on balance their police departments do what they are supposed to do.  For sure, as with any institution that employs humans (read: every institution everywhere) the humans fuck up.  And in some cases that is at the top which yes will insulate lower level fuck-ups.  And that shit should be stamped out.


But I just don't see any practical evidence, not theories based on case-studies, but actual city-to-city, community-to-community evidence that the majority of law enforcement agencies are broken.  It just isn't there.  It's a belief based on an unbending dour outlook on the world.

We're giving you the data. The data on Boston, the data on Fresno, the data on Phox's neck of the woods, Roger's old precinct....

Which still makes up only a small slice of America.

[Juana]

What RWHN is trying to say is, if your elected officials are so terrible, why do people put up with them?  After all, your tax dollars pay for them and they are responsible to you.  You do have power, if you wish to exercise it.

Golly, what are we doing sitting around here, then?

Replying to Garbo


You believe it because you want to believe it.  But think about it, if so many police departments all over the country are so awful, why do their citizens put up with it?  After all, it is their tax dollars funding their salaries.  And all of those people you talk about DO have power, if they wish to exercise it.  Or, maybe, it is because on balance their police departments do what they are supposed to do.  For sure, as with any institution that employs humans (read: every institution everywhere) the humans fuck up.  And in some cases that is at the top which yes will insulate lower level fuck-ups.  And that shit should be stamped out.


But I just don't see any practical evidence, not theories based on case-studies, but actual city-to-city, community-to-community evidence that the majority of law enforcement agencies are broken.  It just isn't there.  It's a belief based on an unbending dour outlook on the world. 

I believe it because I fucking listen (I was part of a phone survey, asking people about, among other things, police brutality, and damn near every person of color I talked to had caught shit from the cops. And you know what? If you're interested, I can post the data from that survey relevant to this discussion tomorrow evening). I've had friends lose people to the cops. I also pay attention to recent history.
They put up with it because the people whose voices matter - the people with money - are well treated. Other groups protest and do what they can (Cop Watch, for instance) but they don't have money and communities are, often enough, set up to silence them.

[Cain]

In other words, RWHN believes in a world where political power operates according to the rules laid out in a high school civics class, rather than everything actually taught to us by groupthink, institutional bias, the Iron Law of Oligarchy, the Pareto Principle etc. and every study you mention to him is going to be dismissed, because he's working from the conclusion (there is not widespread police corruption and brutality) to justify his belief in a world which operates in such a way, instead of the cruel reality of power politics.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I dunno what to say guys, I just think this place has just sunk so far into the tales of horrormirth that it is all you guys can see, even when it isn't there.  And the problem with that, is you end up unwittingly forsaking allies, which I think is very unfortunate.

On the contrary. I'm an optimist. And I don't think I'm forsaking allies by saying that while not all cops are racist, and not all cops are not racist, the fact that there is still enough racism in American law enforcement for the UN to make note of it shows that it's a problem.

Hell, even if there is only one racist cop in the United States, that's still a problem. Maybe not a stereotype, but still a problem.

If anything I think you're tinting your glass a certain pink color. Which is fine, but just remember that you did it.

But one must consider the chicken and the egg.  I would want the UN to look a little deeper and consider the community level racism with the departments in question.  As I said earlier in this thread, LEAs are going to some degree be reflections of their communities.  In other words, in a community that on balance tends to be hostile to minorities, it wouldn't be surprising to see officers hired from that town harboring those same feelings.


But, in the city where I work, the department has largely been able to escape that and NOT harbor any institutional racism against the refugee population.


I feel very strongly that my view on this is open and very well informed.

So you admit that your open and well informed opinion is reflective of the city where you work, not necessarily representative of the rest of the country.

Because as far as I can tell, we're also not saying that Maricopa or Los Angeles is representative either.