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On suffering fools gladly

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, January 04, 2013, 04:12:02 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#15
January 04, 2013, 05:52:25 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 04, 2013, 05:39:30 PM
I work with some stupid kids, man. In the sense that these kids are fucked over by the world from day one, before they're even born. It's easy to see where a lot of these guys are headed, and it isn't anywhere good. They are going to do some stupid things, and end up in stupid places. I probably wouldn't like the adults many of them are going to become. But only a monster would feel disdain for these kids. Only a monster would fail to feel compassion.

Yep.  Based on the definitions I wrote above, it's not "stupid" people that I have a real problem with (most often), but rather the willfully ignorant.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#16
January 04, 2013, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 04, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 04, 2013, 05:36:44 PM
We should probably define a few terms here:

Uneducated - While a person may be smart or stupid, they lack the tools to put what brainpower they have to use, or to optimum use.
Stupid -  The condition of ignoring skills learned when attempting a task or conversation.
Willfully ignorant -  The condition of NOT WANTING the tools to use your intelligence, because you've put on a uniform that disagrees with those tools for one reason or another.
Smart -  The condition of having the brains, education, and emotional stability required to make good decisions.
Fool. -  One who blindly follows the reasoning of another, because thinking for themselves is either too much bother, or they need to follow the pack.
Brain damaged -  Physical damage to the brain that prevents one from learning or making good decisions.
Emotionally impaired - The condition of having emotions overriding thought.
Dunning/Kruger - I am a genius in all things, surrounded by retards.  I know more about your specialty than you do, even though I have no training in the field.

Anyone want to change or add to this?


The only thing I would add is that we all fall prey to all of those conditions, from time to time, with the possible exception of brain damage.

And I even have THAT one nailed.

QuoteI don't think your definition of "stupid" really matches up with the most commonly used definition of "stupid"; I personally prefer to use dictionary definitions wherever possible.

Excellent point:

Quote1.regarded as unintelligent: regarded as showing a lack of intelligence, perception, or common sense

Quote
I think that the problem with focusing on definitions is that it sidesteps the point of my OP, which is not about how to define those we look down on or feel contempt for, but the act of looking down on and feeling contempt for them in the first place.

Problem is, there are certain kinds of "stupid" people for which I DO have contempt.

Greg, for example, is a border patrol agent that I know.  He hates all minorities, even (and especially) those with which he's had no contact.  He takes a stupid pleasure in literally tormenting Hispanics.  He is proud to receive ALL of his opinions from right wing radio.  He's the kind of guy that would pull wings off of a fly.  On top of all of this, he's DENSE.

I DO have contempt for him.  In fact, I like it when bad things happen to him.

On the other hand, my wife has a stupid friend.  She's a sweet person, but cannot seem to make any decisions that don't lead to disaster, disasters that anyone could see coming.  I don't feel contempt for her; God simply wasn't kind to her.  I do tend to keep my distance, though, out of sheer self-preservation.

And yes, I myself am a dumbfuck, more often than I care to detail.  Everyone is a dumbfuck, at least part of the time.  The goal, of course, is to minimize that time.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#17
January 04, 2013, 06:05:55 PM
Maybe it's better to say "harmless stupid" vs "hostile stupid" or even THIS:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/04/16347234-court-voids-rape-conviction-because-woman-not-married?lite
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#18
January 04, 2013, 06:07:04 PM
How about "Assholes" or "People who hurt other people"?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Cain

#19
January 04, 2013, 06:07:40 PM
It might be worth focusing instead on what differentiates Greg from your wife's friend, in that particular case.

Greg is stupid, but his stupidity alone is not why you take pleasure in his misfortunes....it's his malice.  If Greg had a PhD in neuroscience and could play Bach and Mozart like a word class musician, would you hate him any less, if his attitude was otherwise the same?  I suspect you would probably hate him even more.

The Good Reverend Roger

#20
January 04, 2013, 06:09:40 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 04, 2013, 06:07:04 PM
How about "Assholes" or "People who hurt other people"?

Okay.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#21
January 04, 2013, 06:10:44 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 04, 2013, 06:07:40 PM
It might be worth focusing instead on what differentiates Greg from your wife's friend, in that particular case.

Greg is stupid, but his stupidity alone is not why you take pleasure in his misfortunes....it's his malice.  If Greg had a PhD in neuroscience and could play Bach and Mozart like a word class musician, would you hate him any less, if his attitude was otherwise the same?  I suspect you would probably hate him even more.

Yes, this... in this case, it isn't looking down on him because he's stupid, but not respecting or liking him because he's malicious.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

The Good Reverend Roger

#22
January 04, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Of course, this trashes about half of my rants.

How about stupidity itself, as opposed to individuals or groups in particular?

Also, I am on the fence over this example:

"We, through our own stupidity, are making our planet uninhabitable."
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#23
January 04, 2013, 06:14:58 PM
Interesting thought just flashed through my mind... I rarely see/hear people talking about how much they hate mean people in the way that I see/hear people talking about how much they hate stupid people. I think that maybe saying you hate mean people doesn't get you the same kind of edgy, cynical hipster cred as saying you hate stupid people. It's cool to be mean, and you can be mean and edgy and say you hate stupid people, and it will make other cool mean edgy people think you're cool. If you say you hate mean people, maybe you lose your cool edgy points.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#24
January 04, 2013, 06:15:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 04, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Of course, this trashes about half of my rants.

How about stupidity itself, as opposed to individuals or groups in particular?

Also, I am on the fence over this example:

"We, through our own stupidity, are making our planet uninhabitable."

I think that's valid. It's certainly not SMART to be making our planet uninhabitable. And we're all participating in it willy-nilly, so it's not like we have room to be elitist about it.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

The Good Reverend Roger

#25
January 04, 2013, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 04, 2013, 06:15:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 04, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Of course, this trashes about half of my rants.

How about stupidity itself, as opposed to individuals or groups in particular?

Also, I am on the fence over this example:

"We, through our own stupidity, are making our planet uninhabitable."

I think that's valid. It's certainly not SMART to be making our planet uninhabitable.

So, saying it in proper context is okay.  "That fool was texting while he was driving, and knocked the ass end off of my car."  In this case, the person WAS a fool.  Same with "The stupid bastard didn't isolate the circuit before he jammed a screwdriver into the panel".

And yeah, your earlier post is right on the money.  Mean is cool, stupid is the victim.

But I get the impression (and I could be really wrong here) that what's on your arse is useless fuckers sitting around complaining that the world is fucked because of stupid people, and that's why they can't get a job/write the great American novel that will expose the alienation inherent in the system, etc.

I see that, every time I log into HFT.  A huge pack of freaks, all sitting around crying that their brilliant social engineering ideas would be AWESOME if people weren't too stupid (or "sheep") to recognize their genius.
   
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#26
January 04, 2013, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 04, 2013, 06:15:47 PM
I think that's valid. It's certainly not SMART to be making our planet uninhabitable. And we're all participating in it willy-nilly, so it's not like we have room to be elitist about it.

So it's the elitist part that bugs you.  That makes perfect sense, and now I think I understand what you meant in general.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#27
January 04, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
"Good thing WE'RE not stupid like all the humans!  HAW HAW!"

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

#28
January 04, 2013, 06:29:22 PM
I think it's time for the obligatory xkcd comic on this topic:

The Good Reverend Roger

#29
January 04, 2013, 06:30:58 PM
Of course, I AM an elitist.  Not because I'm smart...There are many people smarter than me.  Not because of my education (3 years of university aren't brag-worthy), or my pay (I lucked out to get this job), or any of those other Pink rationalizations.

No, I am an elitist not because I am smarter than them, but because I am BETTER than them.  And why is that?  I have "Bob".  That's really all there is to it.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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