Shooting at CT Elementary School. WTF AMERICA?!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Those lazy, lazy doctors... all talk, and no ACTION. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think it was more that it's a preposterous proposal with a million gaping holes in it, but you can imagine that you're Using Your Powers For Good if that's what rings your jingle.

What holes?

On top of the HIPAA violation issue, most people who DO have healthcare see their doctor only once a year at most, many mentally ill people whose condition is deteriorating avoid seeing their doctor, and many people who commit violent acts are not diagnosed with any mental illness.

In addition, there is the fact that guns, unlike drugs, are very much outside of a doctor's demesnes.

And those are just a few of the more glaringly obvious problems.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Meh, doesn't surprise me.  No one seems to have any real interest in ACTUALLY solving our gun violence issues.

Sounds more like no one seems to agree with your solution.

Sure, but that aside, we are also getting the usual window-dressing bullshit from the Democrats.  Obama's proposals have no teeth and will do jack shit.  They're too scared of the bat-shit-crazy NRA to actually propose something that might actually have an impact.  People will forget about Newton, like they forgot about Columbine.    Maybe if those little kids had been shot by a smudgy guy from Afghanistan we'd actually be doing something about it.

I don't want them to do anything.

It's the same sort of thinking that gave us the TSA, DHS, and waterboarding.  Fear uber alles.

[AFK]

I think it was more that it's a preposterous proposal with a million gaping holes in it, but you can imagine that you're Using Your Powers For Good if that's what rings your jingle.

What holes?

On top of the HIPAA violation issue, most people who DO have healthcare see their doctor only once a year at most, many mentally ill people whose condition is deteriorating avoid seeing their doctor, and many people who commit violent acts are not diagnosed with any mental illness.

In addition, there is the fact that guns, unlike drugs, are very much outside of a doctor's demesnes.

And those are just a few of the more glaringly obvious problems.

At no point did I say this was a silver bullet or THE solution.  It's a tool, and should be one of MANY strategies.  You can make the same arguments for the PMPs.  The drug abusers who aren't seeing their doctor obviously aren't going to trip a PMP threshhold report.  So it certainly is for a certain segment of the population.  You would obviously need different strategies for people who don't have healthcare and/or mot seeing docs.  And again, it would be the BEHAVIORAL HEALTH specialists who would be focusing on these reports since, you know, they specialize in behavioral health.  Sudden gun purchases, in the context of the behavioral health issues, certainly would be within the realm of a behavioral health specialist, as it is a behavior that poses potential danger to the patient, again, in the context of their documented diagnosis.

[AFK]

Meh, doesn't surprise me.  No one seems to have any real interest in ACTUALLY solving our gun violence issues.

Sounds more like no one seems to agree with your solution.

Sure, but that aside, we are also getting the usual window-dressing bullshit from the Democrats.  Obama's proposals have no teeth and will do jack shit.  They're too scared of the bat-shit-crazy NRA to actually propose something that might actually have an impact.  People will forget about Newton, like they forgot about Columbine.    Maybe if those little kids had been shot by a smudgy guy from Afghanistan we'd actually be doing something about it.

I don't want them to do anything.

It's the same sort of thinking that gave us the TSA, DHS, and waterboarding.  Fear uber alles.

I strongly disagree with that.  Kids being gunned down in school, or anywhere, is completely unacceptible and demands something(s) be changed.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Meh, doesn't surprise me.  No one seems to have any real interest in ACTUALLY solving our gun violence issues.

Sounds more like no one seems to agree with your solution.

Sure, but that aside, we are also getting the usual window-dressing bullshit from the Democrats.  Obama's proposals have no teeth and will do jack shit.  They're too scared of the bat-shit-crazy NRA to actually propose something that might actually have an impact.  People will forget about Newton, like they forgot about Columbine.    Maybe if those little kids had been shot by a smudgy guy from Afghanistan we'd actually be doing something about it.

I don't want them to do anything.

It's the same sort of thinking that gave us the TSA, DHS, and waterboarding.  Fear uber alles.

I strongly disagree with that.  Kids being gunned down in school, or anywhere, is completely unacceptible and demands something(s) be changed.

Tell it to Kent State.

[AFK]

Kent State has nothing to do with a 6 year old being gunned down in their goddamned classroom.  Gunned down buy an asshat who's Mom was armed to the gills.  But this country fucking worships the goddamned gun, we can replace kids, but fuck, if you take our guns the world will fucking end.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Kent State has nothing to do with a 6 year old being gunned down in their goddamned classroom.  Gunned down buy an asshat who's Mom was armed to the gills.  But this country fucking worships the goddamned gun, we can replace kids, but fuck, if you take our guns the world will fucking end.

So, it's okay if the state does it, then?

[AFK]

Of course not, but again, it has fuck all to do with what lead to the Newton tragedy.  They aren't comparable, at all. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Of course not, but again, it has fuck all to do with what lead to the Newton tragedy.  They aren't comparable, at all.

Yeah, Kent State was worse.  A platoon of soldiers lined up 150 meters away and volley-fired, without the excuse of insanity.

So let's disarm the US military while we're at it.  Or at least make their doctors call them once in a while.

[AFK]

It's a red herring with respect to the topic of this thread.  How many Kent States have there been since Kent State? 


How many acts of gun violence have we had just in the past year?


We have a problem and problems should at least attempted to be solved, not just swept aside like it's no big deal, for the sake of protecting an antiquated Amendment that was written in the time of the goddamned musket by menwho couldn't possibly have imagined the hand-held mass-death machines we have today.

[Pergamos]

I'd say there's substantial sentiment against more firearms in the UK from the general public. The relatively rare shootings that occur here are big news stories for good while. There's pretty much no high profile support for a more liberal regime either.


Anyway, over here you're more likely to be stabbed than shot.

That seems like a reason for guns (stabbings)  Guns are awfully good at preventing them.

[Pergamos]

Is it just me or is the whole mental health care act just a bit of bullshit?

Yes, I do think it is important. However placing that above the actual discussion (Guns) is reframing the debate to the ideas that only the mentally unbalanced commit violent crimes.


My wildly impractiacal solution ignoring the arms in circulation is that every new owner should have a required level of training and pass a william tell style test. Fail the test, go to jail. Can't find anyone to volunteer to hold the apple, well shit you're not passing.

The mentally ill are who go on killing sprees like Sandy Hook.  Better mental health care wont prevent all gun crimes, but it does a lot to address the particular issue at hand.

[Golden Applesauce]

Yes, I do think it is important. However placing that above the actual discussion (Guns) is reframing the debate to the ideas that only the mentally unbalanced commit violent crimes.

Only the mentally unbalanced commit sensational, over the top awesome crimes that drive news cycles and sell ads.* Normal people commit normal boring crimes, almost by definition: if it's the kind of crime that normal people commit, it's committed so frequently that it's not worth talking about. Child abuse is a dime a dozen, but an 11-year old slitting her classmate's throat and wrists and then returning to class covered in blood as if nothing had happened? Priceless.

Plus, a lot of the normal crime and violence is profitable. A number of institutionalized people asphyxiate every year because of being restrained unnecessarily or improperly, but if we payed more to hire competent security (or more staff in general, so nurses could devote proper attention to patients instead of strategically ignoring the ones who require extra attention) then our insurance premiums would go up and that would be awful. All of the rapes, murders, and suicides in prison exist for basically the same reason - if we couldn't farm out prisons to for-profit corporations Small Businesses, we'd have to pay for them with taxes, and that would be so expensive we'd probably have to revamp our penal code or something.

*exception: normal crimes against photogenic children that also have a plot twist.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So, repurposing doctors as gun control detectives (completely ignoring the fact that guns are outside the purvey of doctors, that most people don't see their doctors frequently enough for it to be useful, and that most gun violence happens by people who are not diagnosed with a mental illness) is a partial solution, but measures to resolve societal stressors are not worth a second mention. Got it.