Advice regarding bereavement

[Junkenstein]

This... makes my point.

Argument closed.

Well, I had the two old guys backward.

Paul Newman is clearly cooler.

TGRR,
Stands corrected.

NO. YOU DON'T.

Beats the FUCK out of eating fifty eggs.

I see your Bullitt and Raise
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054997/?ref_=sr_1

With Jackie Gleeson. Argue and Bang, Zoom, Straight to the moon. He'll do it too.

Ah, riding on the coattails of The Great One.

Steve McQueen, with "support" like Ali McGraw and a minor character from Andy Griffith. And it's STILL a fucking classic:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068638/?ref_=sr_1

Ok. Ok. I can respect this.

Wait.
What was that? You want to talk ensemble cast?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070735/?ref_=sr_1

BOOM.

If you can show me a classier "Pretending to be drunk; gambling on a train" scene I'll eat my hat. Or buy one. Either/Or.Anyway, Every character a classic and you STILL won't guess the assassin until the reveal.

[Bu🤠ns]

Yeah, there's nothing TO "say" because you CAN'T "make it better".
Just try to be a biped and be supportive - ongoing - NOT "here's a casserole and it was God's will and if you ever need anything just let me know, only I don't really mean that, of course. Now snap out of it!"

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.

I hear ya.  We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade.  And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 

Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.

Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.

Fuckin A. 

Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL^(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.

So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.

The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before.  I think that an apt description of the right attitude.  The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.

Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered.  Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much.  We're really counting our blessings. 

Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack.  It's all "Business as Usual".  Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens.

put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!

Oops. 

Nono, i like a good mix.

Very cool that she works with people like that. 

I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.

Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.

Short answer; we ARE scared, and our culture really doesn't have a good mechanism in place for dealing with grief. Grief is an intimate thing, death is the ultimate loss of control, and we fear intimacy and loss of control.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.

I hear ya.  We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade.  And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 

Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.

Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.

Fuckin A. 

Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL^(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.

So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.

The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before.  I think that an apt description of the right attitude.  The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.

Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered.  Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much.  We're really counting our blessings. 

Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack.  It's all "Business as Usual".  Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens.

put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!

Oops. 

Nono, i like a good mix.

Very cool that she works with people like that. 

I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.

Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.

Short answer; we ARE scared, and our culture really doesn't have a good mechanism in place for dealing with grief. Grief is an intimate thing, death is the ultimate loss of control, and we fear intimacy and loss of control.

Yeah.

On the other hand, most people have been through it. I don't get why they don't understand that it takes more than a few DAYS. I mean, that FIRST phase where every time you stop thinking about it for a few minutes, you start to pick up the phone to call the person ("Oh, yeah, forgot..." *PUNCH IN THE GUT*) or turn down their street ("Oh, yeah, forgot..." *PUNCH IN THE GUT*) takes a few WEEKS.

[Bu🤠ns]

Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.

I hear ya.  We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade.  And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 

Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.

Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.

Fuckin A. 

Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL^(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.

So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.

The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before.  I think that an apt description of the right attitude.  The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.

Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered.  Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much.  We're really counting our blessings. 

Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack.  It's all "Business as Usual".  Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens.

put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!

Oops. 

Nono, i like a good mix.

Very cool that she works with people like that. 

I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.

Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.

Short answer; we ARE scared, and our culture really doesn't have a good mechanism in place for dealing with grief. Grief is an intimate thing, death is the ultimate loss of control, and we fear intimacy and loss of control.

That's basically where, as I understand it, where the anger comes from.

[Bu🤠ns]

Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing.  It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back.  They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'. 

If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing.  It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back.  They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'. 

If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.

The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.

Expect that to take at least a year.

[LMNO]

Or longer.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't like to combine "at least" with "or longer" because it's redundant... one implies the other.

[LMNO]

Sorry; comprehension fail.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Sorry; comprehension fail.

S'ok!

[Bu🤠ns]

Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing.  It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back.  They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'. 

If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.

The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.

Expect that to take at least a year.

Or longer.

Yeah...someone once told me that if you think you're done grieving, go grieve some more. This was before anyone died, but I'm beginning to see why that's good advice.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

And you're not coming across as "insensitive" for trying to observe this stuff and figure it out.
It beats the FUCK out of the reactions we were talking about earlier.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing.  It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back.  They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'. 

If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.

The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.

Expect that to take at least a year.

Or longer.

Yeah...someone once told me that if you think you're done grieving, go grieve some more. This was before anyone died, but I'm beginning to see why that's good advice.

In my experience, there's no such thing as "done" grieving. You just get to the point where you accept and understand your loss and are able to function normally again. Acceptance doesn't mean absence of pain, it just means that the pain isn't overwhelming and that you are able to wrap your head around the fact that the person is gone. It still hurts, 16 years later, that my brother is gone. It will always hurt, that's just the way it is.

[navkat]

I don't like to combine "at least" with "or longer" because it's redundant... one implies the other.

Y'all see that tornado blow threw here? Blowed the roof right off mah trailer.
I coulda been killt...or WORSE!
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