Things go boom

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I hate calling them Irish Americans.

Call them whatever you like.  I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.

It's a good enough descriptor of them. They're Americans of Irish descent. Getting off topic though.

I was trying to clarify this insistent accusation that the "US" is funding the IRA, which at least two people said but then won't discuss.  Then it became who gets to be Irish and who gets excluded.

Fuck this noise, I'm just going to read Cain's last post, and then leave this subject.  I am fucking TIRED of EVERYTHING turning into weird accusations of cultural appropriation, etc.

Neither of my points got fucking addressed.  I was answered BY REFLEX, and therefore AM NOT A PERSON WITH RESPECT TO THIS DISCUSSION.

No, it was a good point. It's a group of people living in one part of the US, not the US, which is allied with the UK. State sponsored terrorism, it is not.

[Cain]

Yup.  But a good amount of terrorism theory is devoted to explaining why the state's violence is legitimate, and terrorist violence is not.  As opposed to, you know, trying to explain why terrorist violence occurs.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yup.  But a good amount of terrorism theory is devoted to explaining why the state's violence is legitimate, and terrorist violence is not.  As opposed to, you know, trying to explain why terrorist violence occurs.

Obviously.  If I ran the state, and thus controlled the funding to universities and the like, that's how I'd have it taught.

Actually, I wouldn't, which is among many other reasons that I will never run a state, and if I did run a state, would have a lifespan of say, Saturday.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yup.  But a good amount of terrorism theory is devoted to explaining why the state's violence is legitimate, and terrorist violence is not.  As opposed to, you know, trying to explain why terrorist violence occurs.

So, even terrorism theory has a lot of us vs them mentality to it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I hate calling them Irish Americans.

Call them whatever you like.  I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.

It's a good enough descriptor of them. They're Americans of Irish descent. Getting off topic though.

I was trying to clarify this insistent accusation that the "US" is funding the IRA, which at least two people said but then won't discuss.  Then it became who gets to be Irish and who gets excluded.

Fuck this noise, I'm just going to read Cain's last post, and then leave this subject.  I am fucking TIRED of EVERYTHING turning into weird accusations of cultural appropriation, etc.

Neither of my points got fucking addressed.  I was answered BY REFLEX, and therefore AM NOT A PERSON WITH RESPECT TO THIS DISCUSSION.

No, it was a good point. It's a group of people living in one part of the US, not the US, which is allied with the UK. State sponsored terrorism, it is not.

Well, let's just say that I have a "berserk button" of my own, and that is being shouted down for being insufficiently politically correct when trying to make a point.

And the fact that a piece of paper makes you a member of an ethnicity, but direct descent does not.  And the fact that the label, the map, is now far more important than the object or territory...No, is the ONLY important thing.

My argument has been completely silenced, and neither person who made the initial statements will come near them...And now they don't have to.

WELL FUCKING DONE.  VICTORY.  And shit.

[Junkenstein]

edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.

You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".

I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.

Therefore, all non-state actors which claim to represent a people are, in theory, considered legitimate and have a right to self-determination and state-formation.

Shot in the dark, the tipping point for "a people" (Can't think how better to phrase this) being seen as legitimate is essentially the power to threaten the ruling nation state in some way(terror/strike action?). Does this mean that the smaller minority groups are doomed? I'm thinking this could be a prelude to a massive ongoing africa clusterfuck. Or the ongoing africa clusterfuck. One of them.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.

You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".

I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.

So it is your position that the funding of the IRA is done on a national scale?  Or that everyone in America does it?

By that standard, the existence of the BNP tells me that all British people are Nazis.

[Suu]

"If its possible try to avoid downtown they found a suspicious package in the bridge that connects the Westin and convention center, roads are blocked building evacuated"

Text I just got. Probably a false alarm like Laguardia was this morning, at least I hope.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

"If its possible try to avoid downtown they found a suspicious package in the bridge that connects the Westin and convention center, roads are blocked building evacuated"

Text I just got. Probably a false alarm like Laguardia was this morning, at least I hope.

Fortunately, I'll be taking the E line.

[Suu]

"If its possible try to avoid downtown they found a suspicious package in the bridge that connects the Westin and convention center, roads are blocked building evacuated"

Text I just got. Probably a false alarm like Laguardia was this morning, at least I hope.

Fortunately, I'll be taking the E line.

I'm talking about Providence.

Looks like it was a false alarm: http://www.turnto10.com/story/21992929/police-block-off-area-around-omni-hotel#.UW2QcmVYniQ.facebook

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know what?  Fuck this shit. 

[Junkenstein]

edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.

You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".

I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.

So it is your position that the funding of the IRA is done on a national scale?  Or that everyone in America does it?

By that standard, the existence of the BNP tells me that all British people are Nazis.

That's not what I was trying to describe at all, sorry. I'm referring to any individuals only. No implication was intended to the general populace or government.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.

You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".

I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.

So it is your position that the funding of the IRA is done on a national scale?  Or that everyone in America does it?

By that standard, the existence of the BNP tells me that all British people are Nazis.

That's not what I was trying to describe at all, sorry. I'm referring to any individuals only. No implication was intended to the general populace or government.

Odd, because of the words used, bolded above.  But it doesn't matter, because my post apparently said something like

blah blah Irish-Americans blah blah

Because the politics of exclusion are obviously more important than the topic at hand.  By that reasoning, incidentally, Nigel cannot be a Native American because she doesn't live on a reservation, and I'm not of Cornish descent because I don't live in Cornwall or have a passport.

And I learned that someone that I know to be intelligent cannot seem to see past a label used to describe an actual phenomenon, because it's too fucking important to lose your shit over the label, to show how committed that person is.

It's all fucking useless.  Even the smart people are dumb.  There's no fucking hope whatsoever.

Last one off the planet, turn out the lights.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You know what?  Fuck this shit.

I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.

As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.

Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know what?  Fuck this shit.

I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.

As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.

Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.

It doesn't matter.

ETA:  Ambrose Bierce was right.