If we can't see our mistakes, our competence declines

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

NEAT.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130604153331.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fmind_brain%2Fneuroscience+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Mind+%26+Brain+News+--+Neuroscience%29

If people are unable to perceive their own errors as they complete a routine, simple task, their skill will decline over time, Johns Hopkins researchers have found -- but not for the reasons scientists assumed. The researchers report that the human brain does not passively forget our good techniques, but chooses to put aside what it has learned.

The term "motor memories" may conjure images of childhood road trips, but in fact it refers to the reason why we're able to smoothly perform everyday physical tasks. The amount of force needed to lift an empty glass versus a full one, to shut a car door or pick up a box, even to move a limb accurately from one place to another -- all of these are motor memories.

In a report published May 1 in the The Journal of Neuroscience, the Johns Hopkins researchers describe their latest efforts to study how motor memories are formed and lost by focusing on one well-known experimental phenomenon: When people learn to do a task well, but are asked to keep doing it while receiving deliberately misleading feedback indicating that their performance is perfect every time, their actual performance will gradually get worse.

[Doktor Howl]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Wow, very cool!

In fencing, my instructor made us run through various drills very slowly and very accurately, specifically to build the motor memories. Later when sparring, if he saw bad behavior, even if it resulted in a successful attack or defense, he'd stop us and make us go back to drills. That style of training makes a lot of sense with this study!

Thanks, Nigel

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

[Doktor Howl]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

This explains also why people who come up with ideas on how to do things - and then cannot adjust their idea to fit ugly facts - just get dumber and dumber.

I can think of 2 people I work with that are this way.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

This explains also why people who come up with ideas on how to do things - and then cannot adjust their idea to fit ugly facts - just get dumber and dumber.

I can think of 2 people I work with that are this way.

You mean the ones who try to force reality to bend to fit their ideas?

[Doktor Howl]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

This explains also why people who come up with ideas on how to do things - and then cannot adjust their idea to fit ugly facts - just get dumber and dumber.

I can think of 2 people I work with that are this way.

You mean the ones who try to force reality to bend to fit their ideas?

"That is very inconvenient.  Can't you just make it go for a lousy 12 hours?"

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

This explains also why people who come up with ideas on how to do things - and then cannot adjust their idea to fit ugly facts - just get dumber and dumber.

I can think of 2 people I work with that are this way.

You mean the ones who try to force reality to bend to fit their ideas?

"That is very inconvenient.  Can't you just make it go for a lousy 12 hours?"

Yeah.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

This is highly interesting. And it makes want to e-mail this whole thread to my old boss. Here's why what you are doing is 100% counter-productive, you fuck-wit.

[Cain]

This also explains why the school of thought that says "let them build their confidence up" in education generally is such a wildly bad idea. 

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

This is totally relevant to shit going down right now. I hate how dumb smart people can be.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

This might explain whole organizations and authorities and governments. I mean yeah, they get criticized, but they hang out with each other. It's a closed circle. They listen to EACH OTHER, right?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is amazing, and explains so many things.

It explains a LOT about why an entire organization can appear hopelessly incompetent or uninformed to an outsider, while within their organization maintaining the belief that their performance is flawless. If they set up a lot of feedback within their closed system that tells them all they're doing great work, and refuse to allow outside feedback in, they are actually triggering a mechanism that tricks their brains into believing they are doing great while the actual quality of their work and information declines.

OH MY GOD

This really explains so so much. It may seem like a small thing but it's really helpful in terms of my primary interest, which is why people are fuck ups.

This might explain whole organizations and authorities and governments. I mean yeah, they get criticized, but they hang out with each other. It's a closed circle. They listen to EACH OTHER, right?

Bingo.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This also explains why the school of thought that says "let them build their confidence up" in education generally is such a wildly bad idea.

YES.

Positive feedback is definitely an important part of the learning process. It's just that without negative feedback, it's meaningless.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is highly interesting. And it makes want to e-mail this whole thread to my old boss. Here's why what you are doing is 100% counter-productive, you fuck-wit.

Except he won't listen, because you're not inside his parameters for feedback.