Psychopaths have empathy, they just choose not to use it

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/oup-brs071913.php

As the second part of the study revealed, however, it's not quite so simple. Instead of generally activating their mirror system less, individuals with psychopathy rather seem not to use this system spontaneously, but they can use it when asked to. "When explicitly asked to empathize, the differences between how strongly the individuals with and without psychopathy activate their own actions, sensations and emotions almost entirely disappeared in their empathic brain", explains Valeria Gazzola, Assistant Professor at the UMCG and second author of the paper. "Psychopathy may not be so much the incapacity to empathize, but a reduced propensity to empathize, paired with a preserved capacity to empathize when required to do so". The brain data suggests, that by default, psychopathic individuals feel less empathy than others. If they try to empathize, however, they can switch to 'empathy mode'.

Psychopaths are even shittier human beings than previously assumed.

[Doktor Howl]

Or it may suggest that there's a method of real treatment.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yep, that's in the concluding paragraph of the article.

The interesting thing is that it really highlights the difference between sociopaths (who are, contrary to popular thought, mostly harmless) and psychopaths. I tend to suspect that psychopathy may often be trauma-derived, but of course I haven't studied it yet so I don't really know.

[Cain]

That does make a certain kind of sense.  Though often described as "superficial" charm, the manipulative social behaviour described as a key facet of psychopathic individuals does require a certain amount of empathy - to be able to manipulate someone, you need to understand them, and that understanding requires a basic amount of empathy.  Thus, the ability is retained, but only used in those situations where required, and otherwise simply not indulged in.

[P3nT4gR4m]

It certainly makes perfect sense that individuals who undergo trauma or abuse during formative years or even later, may develop the ability to turn off empathy as a coping mechanism. I can kind of relate to an extent. Although I don't consider myself a psychopath by any stretch, I do have what seems, to me at least, like a better ability than most to turn off annoying feelings (empathy included) at will.

Rather than get sucked into vicariously feeling someone else's pain, I can "switch off." Funnily enough I don't think this makes me a shitty human being. Just a more effective one. It doesn't preclude sympathizing, for instance, just means I don't lose my shit, along with the person who's suffering.

It strikes me that the empathy thing is merely one symptom of the much broader pathology that psychopathy entails. There's a lot more going on in there than just lack of empathy, intentional or otherwise.

[hooplala]

Yep, that's in the concluding paragraph of the article.

The interesting thing is that it really highlights the difference between sociopaths (who are, contrary to popular thought, mostly harmless) and psychopaths. I tend to suspect that psychopathy may often be trauma-derived, but of course I haven't studied it yet so I don't really know.

Honest question... if a pyschopath or a sociopath is harming nobody... does it even matter if they are what they are?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Honest answer - Not to me. Seems, tho, that it sets of a "squick" response in a lot of people. Personally I view this as more than a little xenophobic

[hooplala]

Honest answer - Not to me. Seems, tho, that it sets of a "squick" response in a lot of people. Personally I view this as more than a little xenophobic

I bet there are a lot more of them than people think.

I too can easily shut down emotions when I need to, or when feeling trapped, but I also generally have a SHITLOAD of empathy to spare, for anyone or anything.  Fuck, I find it hard to toss a dead pen out a window... I will think about that pen laying lonely on the side of the road for miles. Plus, littering.  Anyway, I don't know what that makes me, but I feel sympathy for the socios and psychos who are harming nobody but still being vilified for their brain chemistry.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'd love to see someone try to explain to one why "Every time I see a photo of a fireman rescuing a kitten I totally lose my shit" makes them a better person 

[hooplala]

                                                  IT DOESN'T
                                                         \

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That does make a certain kind of sense.  Though often described as "superficial" charm, the manipulative social behaviour described as a key facet of psychopathic individuals does require a certain amount of empathy - to be able to manipulate someone, you need to understand them, and that understanding requires a basic amount of empathy.  Thus, the ability is retained, but only used in those situations where required, and otherwise simply not indulged in.

Yup, that pretty much nails it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yep, that's in the concluding paragraph of the article.

The interesting thing is that it really highlights the difference between sociopaths (who are, contrary to popular thought, mostly harmless) and psychopaths. I tend to suspect that psychopathy may often be trauma-derived, but of course I haven't studied it yet so I don't really know.

Honest question... if a pyschopath or a sociopath is harming nobody... does it even matter if they are what they are?

Define "harm".

Psychopathy is generally defined by elements of acting out and harming people, whereas sociopathy is defined simply by a lack of empathy or ability to connect with people. Most sociopaths never commit physical harm on other people, but the lack of empathy can lead to some interesting cases of social harm. Bernie Madoff is often held up as an exemplar of sociopathy.

Most of us interact with from a few to hundreds of people every day in part of our normal routine. I know a person I am fairly sure is a psychopath, and he hasn't murdered or battered anybody but he's left a wake of emotionally damaged ex-girlfriends, an ex-wife, and a child who doesn't understand why Daddy keeps breaking his promises to spend time with him. It is pretty hard for a person who lacks empathy, or who has turned it off, to lead a life that is fulfilling in normal ways, and to have normal relationships with people around them, who will always be hurt and confused by the sociopath's inability to interact normally.

Sociopathy, in particular, is very sad, as the sociopath simply does not and cannot feel the emotional connection required for successful social interactions. They may become very skilled at them (if they are a very intelligent sociopath) but they fundamentally don't really understand them, making them eternally lonely and alienated, which would be sad except they don't seem to experience loneliness or alienation so, whatever I guess.

The other factor with psychopaths and also with sociopaths is that they are capable of going from perfectly fine and functional to very dangerous with zero warning signs. Most warning signs stem from cognitive dissonance and emotional distress at doing something that conflicts with our core values, but if you simply don't experience the idea that other people have agency, there's no dissonance and thus no warning.

[hooplala]

Hmm, that's very interesting, and things I had never considered much.  Thanks Nigel... I will chew on this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'll add that most sociopaths lead perfectly normal lives. Those who have an internalized concept of themselves as good people typically function as good people in society. They look to others for cues about acceptable attitudes, and mirror them. To me, these functional sociopaths are the most interesting, because they indicate that sociopathy is not necessarily a result of trauma or stress, but a natural condition.

However, the more dysfunctional society is, the more sociopaths will have motivation to ignore social norms for their own gain.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hmm, that's very interesting, and things I had never considered much.  Thanks Nigel... I will chew on this.

Awesome! If you want any book recommendations, let me know.