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I hate both of you because your conversation is both navel-gazing and puerile

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Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Started by Pæs, August 06, 2013, 09:34:47 AM

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Pæs

We scoff at this cliché, especially when we hear stories about law-abiding citizens being subject to visits by Men in Black after a series of unfortunatel Google searches. Cardinal Richelieu said "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged".

The reality of the situation is that we cannot, in any way that is practical or sustainable, hide. The world we live in is moving ever closer to taking neural impulses as input and it is inevitable that Big Data will be there to record, analyse and relate these neural impulses to one another. Too often we forget that encrypted data is private for now and that the "ten thousand years to crack" standards are based on modern brute forcing methods. There is a key to those locks hidden somewhere in the future and it's much closer than advertised.

Once, this frightened me, but it does no longer. I'm no longer interested in the collection of the data. They have the data and if they do not, it is trivial for them to acquire it. What needs to be evaluated is how this data is used. My concern on hearing that Googling "pressure cooker" + "backpack" can lead to a visit from the feds is that this is not sufficient evidence to justify such a visit. If searches for pressure cookers and backpacks can be reliably linked to terrorism (with further supporting evidence and accountability for wasting time), go forth and use them to predict crimes. What makes this information dangerous is that there are no systems capable of using it effectively or responsibly and we absolutely must ensure that these systems improve... but I do not know that a person in a position of power is much more dangerous with Big Data than without. Justification can be fabricated as well as it can be extrapolated from my activities.

I read a chilling prediction on this forum once, of a man summoned to speak with his superiors to explain his private actions, buried in Kafkaesque requirements for documentation and justification for his actions, betrayed by a vast surveillance program.

I am beginning to suspect that the reality is something else entirely. We fear that the sum of our vices may defame or incriminate us but I suspect it more likely that the sum of our vices will be used to identify us as potential consumers for products which market themselves as indulgences in one perversion or another. Big Data has more to gain from exploiting me than it does from betraying me. Cardinal Richelieu's observation would, today, be better phrased "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something to sell him."

The future is not going to be shocked by your Hedonism™. As we demand greater openness we will receive and the Spider will wait on our Facebook feed to learn that we are satisified with that. We will cry for freedom and be given and the Spider will watch us check into Burger King on FourSquare and sate this hunger.

The Spiders do not feel threatened by subversives who do not interrupt the Spectacle so given the full history of your movements and feelings, your conversations and your rallying cries for revolution on Facebook, even your detectable attempts to subvert the surveillance with Bad Signal, the most you're going to do is inform them which finely tuned demographic you belong in... and you have nothing to fear and nothing to hide.

Pæs

Wasn't sure where this was going to go, so just kept typing until it died out. Might revisit it.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I like this. I know I say this a lot, but would you consider submitting it for Bitter Tea?

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Pæs

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on August 06, 2013, 03:40:54 PM
I like this. I know I say this a lot, but would you consider submitting it for Bitter Tea?
Absolutely. I'm still looking at whether to incorporate this from Dok's thread:

Quote from: Pæs on August 06, 2013, 07:07:15 AM
So, what? You stopped following lamestream media and now you rely on the Colbert and Stewart for the news? Guess what, Slappy? You just got served political satire as a PRODUCT. There's a whole business behind pumping yuks at your masters through the tube into your ready and willing eyeholes. There's a conveyor belt and a formula to SELLING you your daily dose of contempt for those in power.

There are graphs and board meetings and shareholders. There are marketers talking at the watercooler about how to SELL SHIT to your demographic. Did you think to question that while you were thinking for yourself about questioning authority like Leary TOLD YOU TO?

They could sell you T-Shirts making fun of Santorum and Comedy Central would make money for MTV who would make money for Viacom who would use it to fuck you with "This YouTube video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Viacom. PS: Good luck fighting this one!" on the podcast you shot to urge the sheeple to wake up.

And chewing on a few other bits I was going to throw it but couldn't phrase right... but I'll put it up in that thread when it looks "done".

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Pæs on August 07, 2013, 03:28:21 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on August 06, 2013, 03:40:54 PM
I like this. I know I say this a lot, but would you consider submitting it for Bitter Tea?
Absolutely. I'm still looking at whether to incorporate this from Dok's thread:

Quote from: Pæs on August 06, 2013, 07:07:15 AM
So, what? You stopped following lamestream media and now you rely on the Colbert and Stewart for the news? Guess what, Slappy? You just got served political satire as a PRODUCT. There's a whole business behind pumping yuks at your masters through the tube into your ready and willing eyeholes. There's a conveyor belt and a formula to SELLING you your daily dose of contempt for those in power.

There are graphs and board meetings and shareholders. There are marketers talking at the watercooler about how to SELL SHIT to your demographic. Did you think to question that while you were thinking for yourself about questioning authority like Leary TOLD YOU TO?

They could sell you T-Shirts making fun of Santorum and Comedy Central would make money for MTV who would make money for Viacom who would use it to fuck you with "This YouTube video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Viacom. PS: Good luck fighting this one!" on the podcast you shot to urge the sheeple to wake up.

And chewing on a few other bits I was going to throw it but couldn't phrase right... but I'll put it up in that thread when it looks "done".

I like that bit too. Whenever you feel like it's ready.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

QuoteMy concern on hearing that Googling "pressure cooker" + "backpack" can lead to a visit from the feds is that this is not sufficient evidence to justify such a visit. If searches for pressure cookers and backpacks can be reliably linked to terrorism (with further supporting evidence and accountability for wasting time), go forth and use them to predict crimes. What makes this information dangerous is that there are no systems capable of using it effectively or responsibly and we absolutely must ensure that these systems improve... but I do not know that a person in a position of power is much more dangerous with Big Data than without.

Actually, it's even better than that.  They were Googling "pressure cooker" + "backpack" while at work, and it was their employer who contacted the Feds.

It's a snitches world, where every electronic-curtain twitcher can call out the Feds to break doors and shoot dogs for showing even the most cursory interest in what is actually happening in the Real Worlds, instead of waiting to be spoon-fed everything.

So it's not only people in positions of power, who think they Know Best, we have to be worried about it.  It's potentially anyone who can access a database or record or some kind. 

And that is the sort of world where appearing anything out of the ordinary, with having any sort of opinions that differ from the acceptable range of social norms, no matter how objectively crazy those norms are, could be very, very dangerous to one's health and continued freedom.

Good rant, I just wanted to add this, as it might give you something to build on, to continue it with.

Junkenstein

That search is even worse when you add the word "neighbours".

Authority unleashed will not always be directed correctly. Looking incidents where Authority just fucks up the address is scary enough. The jackbooted thug smashing your door down and committing various violations may not even want you. Good luck explaining that.

Better report on that suspicious guy with a beard right now. Better to be known as an informer than to just be an unknown factor right? Hey, if you were right and that guy had some pot maybe they won't come through your door at all because you're a good source of intel. Now get them more. What's that? All the bearded dudes arrested already? Well you best start wearing this wire and find me some cocaine.

A little on a tangent there, but seriously the numbers regarding police shooting animals when they've fucked up the address is scary. Makes you wonder how many people are getting shot. Makes you wonder a lot of things about general competence, intel and planning. For a surveillance culture there seems to be a lot of very basic fuck-ups. Very frequently.

Makes you want to create some kind of trapdoor in front of all entrances to my dwelling that triggers from pressure after a forced entry. Makes me want to ask if anyone can help me devise that.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.