History Question: What is the oldest permanent colonial settlement in the US?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I chose wrong, basing my choice essentially on the availability heuristic of having heard Jamestown mentioned as an early settlement so many times. I'm actually impressed with myself for remembering that much, given that it is a topic that I literally do not give a single fuck about.

I chose Santa Fe. My reasoning was as follows:
1.) I knew the Spanish Empire set up permanent colonies before the English
2.) My gut reaction was somewhere in Florida, but I knew that they also got to the West coast fairly quickly and knowing that it wasn't the English territories, perhaps it was in the Southwest.

That said, my education, in elementary, high school and college had been largely focused on the British Empire. Elementary was largely focused on New England, I think, since that was so long ago, but the other two made it a broader, East Coast sort of focus. I think being here in the Northeast, and the USA being directly borne out of rebellion against the British and the rest of the territories being acquired through purchase or warfare makes a continuation of Britain the focus of the narrative.

[Golden Applesauce]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

[Suu]

I was taught St Augustine was the oldest in Florida, but that Plymouth was oldest for the colonies.

Jamestown is older. Plymouth gets more attention because of Thanksgiving.

ETA: well, a bit of a clarification. Jamestown was a permanent English settlement that was abandoned for a bit. Plymouth was a continuous settlement.

And apparently the first settlement was in Pensacola. Weird.

Yep, and it was destroyed by a hurricane. If that hadn't have happened, Pensacola could have beaten St. Augustine in permanence.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

[Suu]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

[Suu]

Also, if you ever get the chance to make it to St. Augustine, it's fucking GORGEOUS. It's one of the state's unsung places, because most of the tourists go to swampy ass Orlando for the Rat or Miami for the dirty beaches. Most of St. Augustine's Old City hasn't changed much. It's very European and not at all what you would expect in Florida.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

Yep. Sickle cell is actually a mutation in defense against malaria, and found exclusively among Africans and people of (fairly recent) African descent.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

It's also one of the origins of the "lazy indian" stereotype. When enslaved, indians pretty much just promptly got sick and died.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

It's also one of the origins of the "lazy indian" stereotype. When enslaved, indians pretty much just promptly got sick and died.

Yep. Europeans, as a result, considered Natives to be a weak race, Africans to be a strong race, and themselves to be a smart race.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

And then they mutated again.  I have to spear the bastards with a pickle fork.

[Ben Shapiro]

Wasn't Jamestown the place where everyone was cannibalizing each other, and people were put to death for stealing gruel, or oats?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, if you ever get the chance to make it to St. Augustine, it's fucking GORGEOUS. It's one of the state's unsung places, because most of the tourists go to swampy ass Orlando for the Rat or Miami for the dirty beaches. Most of St. Augustine's Old City hasn't changed much. It's very European and not at all what you would expect in Florida.

Band of Horses wrote a song about it, so it isn't unsung anymore.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

And then they mutated again.  I have to spear the bastards with a pickle fork.

It got Tucson in it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance. 

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

And then they mutated again.  I have to spear the bastards with a pickle fork.

It got Tuscon in it.

Hohokum's Revenge.