I love Miley Cyrus

[hooplala]

I look at her behavior, and ask which is more probable. Later priors (in the Bayesian sense) include her giving a sly wink with the "I win" quote, and the struggle it took her to make the video, which increases the probability of "clever troll". Other priors, such as mocking Sinead's mental illness as a petty jab increase the probability of "entitled narcissist".

Just the way I think these days, I guess.

Those probabilities are not independent, though. There is such a thing as a narcissistic clever troll, or even an entitled narcissistic clever troll.

Personally I think she started out in this sincerely, but I think she has transitioned into troll recently.  Whether its clever or not remains to be seen for me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

To imply that she has no agency by virtue of her celebrity is to imply that Einstien didn't have any, either.

Bingo

My question to these people is, what is the reason you believe that Miley has no agency? Is it because she's female? Is it her age? What makes her different from, say, Justin Beiber, roughly her age, about whom people have a completely different attitude (and who actually seems to be on a ski slope of self-destruction)? Is it "the music industry", which implies that no big-label musician has agency (and boy, that has ramifications...)?

Frankly, I think it's pretty obvious that it's because she's a young woman, and we are acculturated to see young women as OBJECTS, not as people who make decisions and exert control. The idea that Miley has agency that translates to power and control over the direction of her own career is very threatening, it upsets the status quo. It's much, much safer and easier to dismiss her actions as being that of a mere puppet, controlled safely by one or more middle-aged white men behind the scenes, the way things are supposed to be.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't have enough Tucson spores yet.


Also, complication: although I can't verify, it seems Miley responded to Sinead by screencapping the latter's biopolar breakdown on Twitter and retweeting it, comparing her to Amanda Bynes (a teen actress who is currently getting treatment for a whole boatload of mental stuff).


(potentially) Dick move, Miley.

Dick move, maybe, but 

Simply because O'Connor wrote that "motherly" (and unbearably condescending and priggish) letter in the tone that butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, along with a vibe of "I'm still somebody, not like those other middle-aged pop stars" and "you'll end up in rehab". But she's a giant hypocrite, and Miley pointed that out without saying a word.

[AFK]

Yes, but it does indicate a check mark in the "not a clever troll exposing the creepy entertainment System but just another self-important rich girl appropriating better ideas" column.

Yes, yes it does.  In my opinion, it has been the latter from the start.  I don't think it is a clever troll at all.  I think she's basically a pop-music Spinal Tap, except, the character and actor are one and the same. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yes, yes it does.

Because female.

[Demolition Squid]

I had a very low opinion of Miley before I read this thread - largely based on seeing Charlie Brooker talk about Hannah Montana. I didn't (think) I needed to know anything else about her.

I'm amazed. If this wasn't deliberate, she wouldn't have fought so hard to get it made. If she were just in it for the money, or to please her producers, God knows there's far easier ways for her to do that. She obviously felt that she had something to say, and she worked hard to find a way to say it - maybe one of the first things she's done creatively that she wanted to do, rather than someone else wanted her to do. I can respect the hell out of that.

And... I think she actually has more agency than Bieber, or most 'manufactured' artists. Not many groups go to lengths like deliberately misleading the money to produce something they want made.

It'll be interesting to see where she goes from here. I really hope that her teaser about working on bigger and better things comes to something...

... and if you'd told me a week ago that I'd be even vaguely interested in anything she might have had to say I'd have laughed in your face. That's an impressive about-turn.

[AFK]

Nope, (see also Justin Bieber).

Because, IMO, based upon observation, I don't think she's that deep.  She comes off as yet-another entitled, rich, self-absorbed celebrity douchebag.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Nope, (see also Justin Bieber).

Because, IMO, based upon observation, I don't think she's that deep.  She comes off as yet-another entitled, rich, self-absorbed celebrity douchebag.

Sorry, if you can state authoritatively the motives of someone you've never met, I can certainly state your motives, given your track record of misogyny.

So again:  Because female.

[Demolition Squid]

Nope

You know, you can basically replace every comment you've made in this thread with this word and you wouldn't lose much, if any, content.

When you can replace your contribution with an automated macro, you might want to rethink making it. Just saying.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Nope

You know, you can basically replace every comment you've made in this thread with this word and you wouldn't lose much, if any, content.

When you can replace your contribution with an automated macro, you might want to rethink making it. Just saying.

Also, the false equivalence is funny, given that Justin Beiber has done nothing like what Miley Cyrus did.

[AFK]

Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.

[Cramulus]

I just want to note for the record that
by posting pop celeb gossip, a little part of myself has died and is twerking in hell

ANYWAY

Miley just got her 10th tattoo



---probably commenting on the rolling stone cover piece which boosted her fame?

that's a chip in the "artful troll" column

ON HER VMAS PERFORMANCE
I know what I'm doing. I know I'm shocking you. When I'm dressed in that teddy bear thing, I think that's funny. I was saying yesterday, I had this obsession about this character that's like an adult baby. Like if you see a baby do something like that it's so warped and weird, but there's something creepily hot about it. So when I'm in that teddy bear suit, I'm like a creepy, sexy baby. But I forget that it's, like, people in Kansas watching the show. That people sit their kid in front of the TV and are like, "Oh, an awards show! Let's watch."

another chip in the troll pile

ON HER FAMOUS TONGUE
I just stick my tongue out because I hate smiling in pictures. It's so awkward. It looks so cheesy. Now people expect it, like, "Put your tongue out!" It's just easier that way. Taking pictures is so embarrassing. But there's also something about it that I think is cool. Every other girl is so serious – like, this is my moment on the red carpet, I'm in my ball gown, looking pretty. There's something empowering about what I'm doing right now. Especially having "short hair don't care." I think it's empowering for girls. Because there's not one thing that defines what beauty is.

That's an insightful comment. Clarifies that she was trying to be "grotesque", specifically to make people uncomfortable -- as we discussed earlier ITT.

ON MEDIA OUTRAGE
I think it's all marketing. If a website is like, "We love Miley's performance!" I don't think people are gonna click on it. "Miley's cute performance with teddy bears!" – no one is gonna click on that. So I think it's the media riling up the people, rather than people riling up the media. And what makes me kind of sick is, Trayvon Martin's trial didn't happen more than two months ago. It got talked about a lot – but it still got done being talked about a lot quicker than the VMAs. And that's really sad. For about two days, it was on Twitter and everything, everyone had their pictures as Trayvon – and then two days later, where was it? Who cared anymore? Even I was like, "I want to help his family when it's an appropriate time." But then people just forgot. It slips your mind. We go on to the next thing, our next problem. It's like, "Why are we not still dealing with that? Why are we not still mourning that loss?"

ON HER DAD'S RELUCTANCE TO LET HER BE IN SHOW BUSINESS
I think if he'd known how it was going to pan out, he would have let me. It's more that he didn't necessarily want me to. It's almost like Toddlers and Tiaras – getting the little kids all dolled up and putting so much pressure on them to win. He didn't want me ever to feel . . . the right word isn't "pageant-y," but I don't think he wanted me to feel like I had to be a certain way. Even when it comes to growing up – like, I didn't really start dressing myself until I was fucking 16. I always had a stylist. So I think my dad wanted me to figure out all that out on my own. To go through my awkward stages without people zooming in on every fucking pimple. I think he wanted me to be able to be a kid and have braces and go through my ugly phase, without people talking about it. To be able to just hang and live.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.

Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.

[AFK]

Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.

Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.

No.

Because she's awful.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I just want to note for the record that
by posting pop celeb gossip, a little part of myself has died and is twerking in hell

ANYWAY

Miley just got her 10th tattoo



---probably commenting on the rolling stone cover piece which boosted her fame?

that's a chip in the "artful troll" column

ON HER VMAS PERFORMANCE
I know what I'm doing. I know I'm shocking you. When I'm dressed in that teddy bear thing, I think that's funny. I was saying yesterday, I had this obsession about this character that's like an adult baby. Like if you see a baby do something like that it's so warped and weird, but there's something creepily hot about it. So when I'm in that teddy bear suit, I'm like a creepy, sexy baby. But I forget that it's, like, people in Kansas watching the show. That people sit their kid in front of the TV and are like, "Oh, an awards show! Let's watch."

another chip in the troll pile

ON HER FAMOUS TONGUE
I just stick my tongue out because I hate smiling in pictures. It's so awkward. It looks so cheesy. Now people expect it, like, "Put your tongue out!" It's just easier that way. Taking pictures is so embarrassing. But there's also something about it that I think is cool. Every other girl is so serious – like, this is my moment on the red carpet, I'm in my ball gown, looking pretty. There's something empowering about what I'm doing right now. Especially having "short hair don't care." I think it's empowering for girls. Because there's not one thing that defines what beauty is.

That's an insightful comment. Clarifies that she was trying to be "grotesque", specifically to make people uncomfortable -- as we discussed earlier ITT.

ON MEDIA OUTRAGE
I think it's all marketing. If a website is like, "We love Miley's performance!" I don't think people are gonna click on it. "Miley's cute performance with teddy bears!" – no one is gonna click on that. So I think it's the media riling up the people, rather than people riling up the media. And what makes me kind of sick is, Trayvon Martin's trial didn't happen more than two months ago. It got talked about a lot – but it still got done being talked about a lot quicker than the VMAs. And that's really sad. For about two days, it was on Twitter and everything, everyone had their pictures as Trayvon – and then two days later, where was it? Who cared anymore? Even I was like, "I want to help his family when it's an appropriate time." But then people just forgot. It slips your mind. We go on to the next thing, our next problem. It's like, "Why are we not still dealing with that? Why are we not still mourning that loss?"

ON HER DAD'S RELUCTANCE TO LET HER BE IN SHOW BUSINESS
I think if he'd known how it was going to pan out, he would have let me. It's more that he didn't necessarily want me to. It's almost like Toddlers and Tiaras – getting the little kids all dolled up and putting so much pressure on them to win. He didn't want me ever to feel . . . the right word isn't "pageant-y," but I don't think he wanted me to feel like I had to be a certain way. Even when it comes to growing up – like, I didn't really start dressing myself until I was fucking 16. I always had a stylist. So I think my dad wanted me to figure out all that out on my own. To go through my awkward stages without people zooming in on every fucking pimple. I think he wanted me to be able to be a kid and have braces and go through my ugly phase, without people talking about it. To be able to just hang and live.

Thanks for sacrificing your eternal soul to tease out a little more insight into her awareness and motivations.

I think she's a damn smart young lady who has a very clear idea of what she's doing. She's young, yes, and exploratory... but it's pretty clear that she has a taste for the absurd and the terrible, she's setting out to disturb people, and she's succeeding.

In other words, she's totally awesome.