Should kids have smartphones?

[Demolition Squid]

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/adolescenthealth/monitoring.htm

When they say "monitoring" there, they mean "talking to and staying involved with", not "use tracking devices to spy on your kids". A certain element of trust and respect is also necessary in effective childrearing.

I am so glad I am not the only one who read him that way.

He's clarified that isn't what he meant to say though.

[Lord Cataplanga]

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/adolescenthealth/monitoring.htm

When they say "monitoring" there, they mean "talking to and staying involved with", not "use tracking devices to spy on your kids". A certain element of trust and respect is also necessary in effective childrearing.

I am so glad I am not the only one who read him that way.

He's clarified that isn't what he meant to say though.

I read him that way too. Apparently, I accidentally primed myself with my own comment about spyware. It's a little scary, to be honest.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

To put things in perspective, at age 17 (when its legal to learn to drive in the UK), I was backpacking in Peru.  Admittedly, I'm likely an outlier.  But some kids invariably will be.

The concept of raising kids to be able to function independently seems sadly to be on the decline. I see parents who either detach and leave their kids adrift to figure everything out on their own, or try to take an authoritative tack and attempt to control their child, which leads either to subservient and endlessly dependent young adults, or to power struggles, backlash, and estrangement. The parents who take the middle road and provide guidance, advice, respect, security, attachment, and  trust, the parents who are authoritative without being authoritarian, are the ones who end up with the seemingly-remarkable in our times independent young adults who are actually functional and can make adult decisions and do adult things on their own.

[LMNO]

I remember my mom and dad wouldn't lock me down, or even punish me that much, but rather, when I would do something monstrously stupid, would be "extremely DISSAPOINTED" in me.

It was so effective, it took until my 30th birthday to get a tattoo.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Our responsibility as the older generation to teach them to be able to use this technology unsupervised. If they don't it's our failure, as parents. It's basically the same as the time I got a bus pass from school and was given free rein, and didn't get into any trouble. My parents may have screwed up in some areas (whose doesn't?), but they at least taught me to not get myself in a bad spot if they weren't looking.

You are prefectly right. I guess my question is how to do that right with smartphones. It's quite clear that you wouldn't start teaching power-tools before good hand-to-eye coordination and concentration skills are in place, probably around 5-6, with constant supervision. Learning to drive a powered vehicle, also probably not before then. Smartphones (ubiquitous data and networking in any form) seems harmless by comparison. I am not sure it is. The effect may be more subtle than lost fingers and major injuries, but I think there is an effect, and I'd like to see more clearly what it is. By the way, this is coming from a guy whose three-year-old daughter is quite capable of navigating an iPhone and does so quite a lot, and whose older kids all have networked computers and two have smartphones and the rest could have them if they asked for them.

Holist, kudos. I understand your ambivalence, but this is a good thread.

Thanks for that!

Little story:

My youngest is 17.  She and her friends all have smartphones, and they're constantly in touch.  At night, they watch bad movies together...Each at their own house, laughing over a team chat channel.  Then they all come up with things to do, and then I - or one of the other kids' parents - are overrun with teenagers for a while, then they're off to do whatever they had planned.  In large groups, every member of which has communication capability.

In short, they're never alone, no matter what, unless they want to be.

Results?  They're civilized as hell, can't be bothered with booze and drugs, and they DON'T spend all day buried in their phones.

Same deal with mine. They're super-social, which is, of course, what human beings evolved to be.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/adolescenthealth/monitoring.htm

When they say "monitoring" there, they mean "talking to and staying involved with", not "use tracking devices to spy on your kids". A certain element of trust and respect is also necessary in effective childrearing.

I am so glad I am not the only one who read him that way.

He's clarified that isn't what he meant to say though.

I was mostly responding to  this:

Maybe, I'd rather they just don't have the phone in the first place.  When they get to be driving and working, and "need" a phone, then I would definitely have some mechanism for monitoring how they are using it.

By the time a kid is driving and working, the idea of Daddy monitoring their phone use is decidedly creepy and controlling.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I remember my mom and dad wouldn't lock me down, or even punish me that much, but rather, when I would do something monstrously stupid, would be "extremely DISSAPOINTED" in me.

It was so effective, it took until my 30th birthday to get a tattoo.

My oldest daughter asked if she could get dahlia bites. I said "sure, babe, just look up on the internet how long they take to heal, what kind of care they need, and what the potential complications are, and make sure you're ready".

She didn't get them.

I've had parents ask me how I get my kids to do things I want them to do. The answer is, I ask them. They like me, they respect me, and I treat them with respect. When I ask them to do something, they do it. When I say no, they respect that. People have been trying to tell me I'm too nice for years and that I'll have a rebellion on my hands when they're teenagers. Bullshit. I'm not nice, and they're teenagers now and I'm not seeing rebellion.

[LMNO]

What the hell is a dahlia bite?

I'm not sure i want to google that at work.

[Dildo Argentino]

Little story:

My youngest is 17.  She and her friends all have smartphones, and they're constantly in touch.  At night, they watch bad movies together...Each at their own house, laughing over a team chat channel.  Then they all come up with things to do, and then I - or one of the other kids' parents - are overrun with teenagers for a while, then they're off to do whatever they had planned.  In large groups, every member of which has communication capability.

In short, they're never alone, no matter what, unless they want to be.

Results?  They're civilized as hell, can't be bothered with booze and drugs, and they DON'T spend all day buried in their phones.

Well although my <i>oldest</i> is 18 in a few weeks, I can report pretty much the same scenario shaping up here. And we're half a world away and even tend to speak a completely different language most of the time... I think we can call that independent confirmation.

[Dildo Argentino]

To put things in perspective, at age 17 (when its legal to learn to drive in the UK), I was backpacking in Peru.  Admittedly, I'm likely an outlier.  But some kids invariably will be.

The concept of raising kids to be able to function independently seems sadly to be on the decline. I see parents who either detach and leave their kids adrift to figure everything out on their own, or try to take an authoritative tack and attempt to control their child, which leads either to subservient and endlessly dependent young adults, or to power struggles, backlash, and estrangement. The parents who take the middle road and provide guidance, advice, respect, security, attachment, and  trust, the parents who are authoritative without being authoritarian, are the ones who end up with the seemingly-remarkable in our times independent young adults who are actually functional and can make adult decisions and do adult things on their own.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Bad idea.  It is another avenue for unsupervised and unmonitored access to the internet.  Especially given all of the Agrippa's that use the internet.

ROCKS AND BROKEN GLASS.  THAT'S ALL THEY NEED.

No, but they also don't need to be easier targets for the pedophiles that trawl the internet.  Giving a kid a smartphone does that, among other issues.  I'm not talking about your 17 and 18 year olds, certainly whn a kid gets to an age where they are driving and getting a job, I think there is certainly merit.  But your younger teens and tweens, it seems a little sketchy to me.  Get them just a plain ole cellphone without access to the net so they can still make a call in emergencies, but they don't, IMO, need smartphones.

Wouldnt telling kids to not talk to pedos be more effective?

[Dildo Argentino]

I remember my mom and dad wouldn't lock me down, or even punish me that much, but rather, when I would do something monstrously stupid, would be "extremely DISSAPOINTED" in me.

It was so effective, it took until my 30th birthday to get a tattoo.

Well disappointment as a tool of control seems somehow deeply twisted to me as well... although it is not clear that this was happening in your case, LMNO. Why did you put "extremely DISAPPOINTED" in quotation marks?

[hooplala]

What the hell is a dahlia bite?

I'm not sure i want to google that at work.

Piercings at the corners of the mouth.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Bad idea.  It is another avenue for unsupervised and unmonitored access to the internet.  Especially given all of the Agrippa's that use the internet.

ROCKS AND BROKEN GLASS.  THAT'S ALL THEY NEED.

No, but they also don't need to be easier targets for the pedophiles that trawl the internet.  Giving a kid a smartphone does that, among other issues.  I'm not talking about your 17 and 18 year olds, certainly whn a kid gets to an age where they are driving and getting a job, I think there is certainly merit.  But your younger teens and tweens, it seems a little sketchy to me.  Get them just a plain ole cellphone without access to the net so they can still make a call in emergencies, but they don't, IMO, need smartphones.

Wouldnt telling kids to not talk to pedos be more effective?

You know what's effective?  When a new kid joins the group, he or she is met by 10-20 of the kids, all of whom have phones.

[East Coast Hustle]

Holist returns, posts an interesting and engaging thread in which he himself posts clear well-thought opinions that make sense AND calls RWHN out for being a control freak?

Somebody pinch me, I think I'm still asleep.