Why has Feminism become a Dirty Word? and Other Misogyny on the Internet.

[The Johnny]

What job for women has the highest, education/effort/access to pay ratio?

Stripping.

And for men?

Drug dealing.

Its dildoes all the way down; this reflects the structure of the system and roles.

[Cramulus]

up for discussion:

Why Jezebel Has the Wrong Approach to Feminism, Period.
http://tlgmagazine.com/jezebel-wrong-approach-feminism/


thoughts?

[Cain]

I don't read Jezebel enough to comment.

THAT SAID,

reading the article, they seem to be describing what some people are calling the twitterstorm approach to progressive politics, aka clickbait and outrage wrapped in a highly moralistic agenda.

Which I've certainly seen elsewhere.  In essence, politics becomes a game about moral perfection, with those at the top encouraging attacks and the anonymous, social media consuming crowd to act as the enforcing mob, putting targets under a barrage of abuse and near-libellous attacks.

Obviously, that's uncomfortable on a number of levels.

[LMNO]

I read Jezebel.  It's a pro-woman gossip site, with re-blogs and a healthly smear of pop culture.

What it isn't, is anything resembling academic gender studies and feminist philosophy.

It's like complaining that Us Weekly doesn't do hard-hitting journalism.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I read Jezebel.  It's a pro-woman gossip site, with re-blogs and a healthly smear of pop culture.

What it isn't, is anything resembling academic gender studies and feminist philosophy.

It's like complaining that Us Weekly doesn't do hard-hitting journalism.

I read the editorials there, because they're screamingly funny.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

up for discussion:

Why Jezebel Has the Wrong Approach to Feminism, Period.
http://tlgmagazine.com/jezebel-wrong-approach-feminism/


thoughts?

I was going to say pretty much what LMNO did.

I mean, their tagline is "Celebrity, Sex, Fashion for Women. Without Airbrushing," not "Feminism for Serious Gits".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that decrying feminism because you don't like the way some webzine does it makes as much sense as decrying racial equality because someone's dooin' it rong.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, I think that webzine is taking Jezebel way too seriously because the editor is 19 and naive; Jezebel is their primary frame of reference because they consider it their competition.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not that the author of the article is necessarily that young, but I think that attitude is going to be reflected in anything the editor chooses to publish.

[LMNO]

Good point!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think that decrying feminism because you don't like the way some webzine does it makes as much sense as decrying racial equality because someone's dooin' it rong.

Oh, no doubt. 

The biggest problem I have, for example, with tumblr is that it feeds ammunition to reactionaries, by giving them something to point at.  Tumblr is not a good example of ANY kind of activism, and it makes things harder on people who are trying to make things better.

But that doesn't mean that the cause they say they support is invalid.  It just means that they're assholes.

[Cramulus]

I read Jezebel.  It's a pro-woman gossip site, with re-blogs and a healthly smear of pop culture.

What it isn't, is anything resembling academic gender studies and feminist philosophy.

It's like complaining that Us Weekly doesn't do hard-hitting journalism.

see, for a lot of people, I think sites like jezebel and thefrisky are their main touchstone to the feminist 'voice' and 'attitude'.

Jezebel is the intersection between feminism and clickbait. You're right that it's not the vanguard of the movement, it's the low branch with the accessible fruit. It's level one. Which why its important despite being essentially a gossip site.



I guess the question is - where do you strike the balance? Activism needs an accessible form, but if it goes too far towards clickbait and appealing to the masses, it also loses its teeth. Which is tough because it needs both its teeth and the masses.

[LMNO]

Right.  So the OP article is completely missing the point, is my point.

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

ILU FREEKY.


Please provide me with a situation where "female privilege" would exist, Dingo (I'm looking for stats on your assertion regarding the "bi/homosexual females are less likely to be assaulted for being queer" and I gotta tell you, the results are not supporting it. And that's not even including the rape statistics).

Well, personally i've noticed this (and again, not saying that because women enjoy this privilege in one domain means women don't face great challenges in other parts of their lives) is that the male gender role makes it hard for men to form the same kind of social ties, or even express themselves emotionally in the same way women can. Male gender roles don't allow for men to do anything that could be misconstrued as "gay" for example, and its still considered unusual for men to express deep emotions and fears, and even if they do, men are more likely than women to be told to just "man up" and take on whatever problems they have without complaining, often by themselves. The expectation for men to be the stoic pillar of resolve in a family cuts us off from a lot of the things that make us human, and as a result, you have a lot of guys with the emotional maturity of toddlers because they literally have no experience handling emotions that aren't smug confidence or anger.

I used to be in a men's organization that was a pretty good example of this. Men of all descriptions would come to have a safe place where they could talk about their problems: divorces, career difficulties, whether or not their family was gonna be out on the street next month. For some of them, this was the only place they could feel they could let the mask down and be vulnerable, the only place they could be honest about what they were feeling in their lives. A lot of these men had wives, some had successful businesses or were happily retired. Even so, in order to get that shit off their chest, they had to drive out to someones secluded garage with a number of semi-strangers who had sworn to secrecy to never speak of it to anyone. Now i dunno about you, but that seems like a lot of shit to go through just so your wife never has to see you be a little bit worried about the finances, dont you think?

I think the female gender role has made a good deal of progress since first and second wave feminism hit, but the male gender role has barely budged an inch. Granted the men have changed, but all that means is you have a larger proportion of men who fall short of society's expectations of them to be super macho breadwinning badasses who are emotionally invulnerable 100% of the time. That probably why it seems like all men are assholes; society rewards men who fit this stereotype, so your wannabe Don Drapers, your pick-up artists, your The Situations, they all have the confidence to venture out and talk to (see bother and/or roofie) women, while men who don't sit off by themselves, feeling like they're barely men to begin with. There needs to be a new standard for what it means to be a man, and i think feminists, male and female, have a part to play in making that happen

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

Also, some good articles that highlight the experiences i mentioned:

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/married-to-the-masculine-i-want-a-divorce-slake/

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/02/defining-modern-masculinity/

http://goodmenproject.com/the-good-life/why-we-as-women-need-to-ease-up-on-men/