Polemic #1: The militant apathete movement

[Counter Intelligence]

Well, obviously, we need to whine a lot, and look very world-weary and wise while doing so.

Then, we should smoke French cigarettes, and complain about how Borrrring eet all ees!

hilarious stuff, jackass. Let me guess, straight ticket democrat? Yeah, they're doing a great job of being cabana boys for the Republicans. Let me know where the opposition movement is when you find it.

As for Ayn Rand, I hold her up about as much as I hold Ann Coulter up. Anyone who claims that capitalism is a system crafted by the hand of God and that the fate of the poor is entiely their own fault should be dragged outside of city limits and shot dead.

I don't smoke, I don't believe in paying some tabacco tycoon from some slave owning family for the right to slowly kill myself. Life is far from boring, if you think that, you should stop taking up my space.

And I just don't like football. Sports are just another distraction taking up far too much space in the average American brain.

[Counter Intelligence]

From "The Story of the Amulet," a children's book written in 1906

And now from the window of a four-wheeled cab the Queen of Babylon beheld the wonders of London. Buckingham Palace she thought uninteresting; Westminster Abbey and the Houses of Parliament little better. But she liked the Tower, and the River, and the ships filled her with wonder and delight.

'But how badly you keep your slaves. How wretched and poor and neglected they seem,' she said, as the cab rattled along the Mile End Road.

'They aren't slaves; they're working-people,' said Jane.

'Of course they're working. That's what slaves are. Don't you tell me. Do you suppose I don't know a slave's face when I see it? Why don't their masters see that they're better fed and better clothed? Tell me in three words.'

No one answered. The wage-system of modern England is a little difficult to explain in three words even if you understand it--which the children didn't.

'You'll have a revolt of your slaves if you're not careful,' said the Queen.

'Oh, no,' said Cyril; 'you see they have votes--that makes them safe not to revolt. It makes all the difference. Father told me so.'

'What is this vote?' asked the Queen. 'Is it a charm? What do they do with it?'

'I don't know,' said the harassed Cyril; 'it's just a vote, that's all! They don't do anything particular with it.'

'I see,' said the Queen; 'a sort of plaything.'

I enjoyed this. Thanks.

[East Coast Hustle]

assclown.

[Counter Intelligence]

assclown.

Would you prefer that I rant on about the glory of an acient goddess as seen through the eyes of a modern sci-fi writer? Maybe I'll do a trick for you if you clap your hands.

[East Coast Hustle]

no...i pretty much agree with you on the political stuff...and worshipping Eris is just as backwards as worshipping Allah or Yaweh....but damn, man...how can you not like football?

[gnimbley]

Hmm. First time I have ever read anything by Counter Intelligence
that made sense. You must be the one that doesn't work for the
government.

Don't mind Rog?©t and Trudy. They are our resident troglodytes. They
have even been known to be critical of the bunny. Which is very,
very dangerous. I mean, picking on a three month old bunny rabbit.
How more bully-esque can you get?

I have to disagree on sports since you are only looking at it
through the window of corporate marketing. Sports can be great
when it is an activity to tone your body or bring people together.
It's widespread use as an opium for the masses doesn't negate it's
beneficial effects. It is just been corrupted and coopted. There is
nothing about sports that is intrinsically bad. Well, except for the
New England Patriots.

[East Coast Hustle]

Trudy?

[gnimbley]

We all have to get in touch with our feminine side.

:P

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, obviously, we need to whine a lot, and look very world-weary and wise while doing so.

Then, we should smoke French cigarettes, and complain about how Borrrring eet all ees!

hilarious stuff, jackass. Let me guess, straight ticket democrat? Yeah, they're doing a great job of being cabana boys for the Republicans. Let me know where the opposition movement is when you find it.

As for Ayn Rand, I hold her up about as much as I hold Ann Coulter up. Anyone who claims that capitalism is a system crafted by the hand of God and that the fate of the poor is entiely their own fault should be dragged outside of city limits and shot dead.

I don't smoke, I don't believe in paying some tabacco tycoon from some slave owning family for the right to slowly kill myself. Life is far from boring, if you think that, you should stop taking up my space.

And I just don't like football. Sports are just another distraction taking up far too much space in the average American brain.

Why do yuo hate tobacco tycoons?

[Hoshiko]

I have mis-represented myself. My previous post was an outburst without reason. Allow me to clarify. First, on the issue of third parties I have misspoken. As they exist currently they have virtue but that virtue exists only due to their irrelevance. If they ever became viable they would immediatly become part of an election system that is so fundementally flawed that their virtue would vanish under a landslide of corporate money and special interest.

I was not speaking of simply sitting at home and being docile on election day. Voting at the local level can be quite helpful (though it's better to just run for such an office). You can personally affect your schoolboard or other such small things....Senators and Presidents are a diffrent reality. Either party is fair commodity for trade among corporate Amerika. So, cast your vote: Exxon or Starbucks. Either one will simply perpetuate the problem.

As long as current election rules remain intact things will never change and your vote will continue to be meaningless. Finance realitys and the electoral college hold Amerika in a position of perpetual rule by two parties that do not speak for the people. Furthermore, these politicians will never change these rules because they have carved out a nobility for themselves and it is unnatural for those in power to freely submit it. The situation is intollerable. So as to what I would reccomend, I reccomend change by any means neccesary. Blackmail Denny Hastert if thats what it takes to get a bill through the house.

The reality of COINTELPRO is not lost on me by any means. That program most foul is where I take my forum name from. It appears I drew a much diffrent message from it then you. The press went after Nixon for watergate, because he was messing with other rich white men of the American nobility. COINTELPRO was ignored by the media, or given only passing mention. The message here is that the tradional system cannot be disrupted, but those on the outside, the fringe, can be abused and no one will speak up for them in the least.

The fact that COINTELPRO existed is my justification for my beliefs. At the national level, American "democracy" is a multiple choice quiz...but not even a complete one...simply A or B. Choices C, D, and E will be crushed, maginalized and ridiculed. Look at the primarys. I knew so many who were impressed more by Sharpton or Kucinich or even Dean but voted for Kerry because those ones were being honest outside of tradional poltics. Thus, they are not viable options the press tells us. We believe them too.

My point is simply that the mechanisms of the American electoral system are set against the masses. They are rules created and enforced by a nobility of rich, white American familys that groom their children for Senator seats and the presidency from birth. Not even the founding fathers really trusted the masses. They set those mechanisms up to ensure that they and their friends would be running the show for years and years. Your vote at the national level is irrelevant. A win for Bush or Kerry is nothing more then points on some partisan hack's political scoreboard. Maybe one is worse than the other, big deal, nothing really changes unless you change the election law.

Hmm. Again, alot to think about in that post. Just a couple of things I wanted to address.

I was referring to COINTELPRO more in regards to it's beginnings as a counter to so-called "communism" and how it eventually morphed into what it became, affecting the lives of many, many people, revolutionaries as well as crackpots and "normal" citizens. It's an important lesson in history, one that is generally downplayed by the masses, as well as the media. I refuse to blame the media for not reporting it, because they  have reported it. Not often or in-depth, but that's the fault of a public who is uninterested.

The media is about profit in this country. If truth sold we wouldn't have the problem of trying to babysit major news organizations. And it was the public who, at the time, belived that it was a just and inspired organization, and gave it free reign by not forcing the government to be accountable for their actions during that time. To a much greater extent, the same thing happened in Nazi Germany, and has happened in governments and countries around the world, and is still happening here (I shudder to think of what the precedent of Guantanamo Bay will bring us in the future, although I'm not surprised by it.) The fact that's it's so widespread tells me that it's something to do with human nature and keeping quiet to preserve the illusion of well-being, and that's depressing as hell but it's not Kerry or Bush's fault, even though they tend to propagate it.

It's not the government's fault that it is corrupt and corporate. It's nature is to turn into what people (big-name polititians included) mold it into. It was the job of the people to monitor and influence where this country goes, and most of them fell asleep on the job and became corprate themselves. Like you, I trust the government about as much as I trust Kim Il Jong to housesit, and also like you I'm not going to say that if we give third party candidates equal representation it will necessarily fix anything. But I still see the renewed interest in voting as a step in the right direction.

4 years ago I didn't know how any of my friends were voting. This year, complete strangers bring up conversations about who they want to vote for, and how it will change this country. It may be naive and fickle of them to think that their having a say now will change anything in a major way, but it IS a babystep in the right direction. My contention with your first post was that it sounded intelligent but depressing as hell, and that's really not the message I want people to be getting at this point. I understand that your intention was to open people's eyes to the truth and to motivate them to do something besides just voting, but I still think it was wrong for a post about voting having a small but good impact (as you admitted yourself.)

Damn, this topic is too vague and big for a message board post.

[Hoshiko]

<snip>

Furthermore, these politicians will never change these rules because they have carved out a nobility for themselves and it is unnatural for those in power to freely submit it. <snip>

It might also be unnatural for people in a large system to not be governed by some type of nobility. Your average person doesn't want to spend their day worrying about what policies they want to support or reject, they just want to go to work, come home, watch the simpsons and look for porn (or cook, or knit, or play sports, or any number of things that are good and necessary for humans to do.) I think that history shows that overthrowing a government and not replacing it with another type of nobility would be like reverting back to a pre-society human and being faced with real survival on a daily basis, against people who are not united and controlled by the interests of a community. I believe the real question is "Does the nobility stand for things that are close enough to what you would do yourself if given a choice?" If not, time to overthrow them and come up with a new set of nobels who do.

Which is not to say that the electoral college shouldn't be scrapped for a better model that gives you a greater amount of choices. That I agree with. There are more than 100 types of soap at an given grocery store, fer christsake. What's so hard about doing the same thing with politicians?

The message here is that the tradional system cannot be disrupted, but those on the outside, the fringe, can be abused and no one will speak up for them in the least.

They have always been abused, and they will probably continue to be abused, but I wouldn't necessarily say that that's because of politics. Probably more on the greed of the masses. Depressing but true.  

I knew so many who were impressed more by Sharpton...

<shudder> Now that scares me.

*edited to say* Isn't masturbatory debate FUN, kids?  

[Bob the Mediocre]

Why do yuo hate tobacco tycoons?

Why do you hate hate?

[agent compassion]

Looks like we're going to need our anti-criticism cloaks:

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Digging through the archives, found this old gem. Same shit, different election cycle.