Postergasm Brainstorm

[Doktor Howl]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

[altered]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

I can't help but feel that the only problem with this approach is that the people who don't already feel that a community is a good thing are so bogged down with their own false baggage that nothing can change their minds.

Best example of this is "gamer culture", where anyone who tries to bring facts about being not-a-piece-of-shit to the table is just considered brainwashed or a brainwasher. Libertarians and their fellow travelers are (in my experience) no different in this respect. They've internalized "us vs. them" to the point that they automatically consider any deviance from accepted doctrine to be evidence of enemy action.

I want to figure out how to break /that/ first. Thus far, though, I have nothing.

If you have any ideas of your own, I'm genuinely curious about them. Someone whose belief system precludes anything but their own dogma is well defended, and I haven't taken many opportunities to probe that mindset for weaknesses myself.

[Doktor Howl]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

I can't help but feel that the only problem with this approach is that the people who don't already feel that a community is a good thing are so bogged down with their own false baggage that nothing can change their minds.

Best example of this is "gamer culture", where anyone who tries to bring facts about being not-a-piece-of-shit to the table is just considered brainwashed or a brainwasher. Libertarians and their fellow travelers are (in my experience) no different in this respect. They've internalized "us vs. them" to the point that they automatically consider any deviance from accepted doctrine to be evidence of enemy action.

I want to figure out how to break /that/ first. Thus far, though, I have nothing.

If you have any ideas of your own, I'm genuinely curious about them. Someone whose belief system precludes anything but their own dogma is well defended, and I haven't taken many opportunities to probe that mindset for weaknesses myself.

We are clever monkeys, we can figure something out if we stop and do a little root-cause analysis.

But it's worth mentioning that this shit has had 78 years to grow and it's not going to be easy.  In fact, directly approaching it is impossible, for exactly the reasons you stated.

So the only way to do it is to introduce information that attacks the root cause, not the behavior, because monkeys will defend ANYTHING.

[OS Not Found]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

Maybe a case for non-cooperation leading towards the lack of specialization? Distrust of the species/operating as individuals works into people regressing to more generic goals and identities. A lot of people are familiar with Maslow's 'Hierarchy of Needs Pyramid.' While rugged individualism would ax the upper half of the pyramid as people's identities regress into being formed by their pursuit of physiological needs and security, cooperation is what axes the lower half, so people develop distinctly.

Taking something visually familiar like Maslow's Pyramid for the base of satire? Thinking something like the bottom half 'staying afloat' like the base of an iceberg while the top half is being pushed off into the ocean. Has an environmental focus/provides a visual antagonist

[Cramulus]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

love this



kinda reminded of buckminster fuller's "spaceship earth" concept, of thinking of the world as an interdependent ecology.


Cooperation makes us human

Cooperation enables individuality


Inside you, someone is saying "Tear down this wall"






QGP, I love those images! Those are def going into this hypothetical collection.

[Doktor Howl]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

love this



kinda reminded of buckminster fuller's "spaceship earth" concept, of thinking of the world as an interdependent ecology.


Cooperation makes us human

Cooperation enables individuality


Inside you, someone is saying "Tear down this wall"






QGP, I love those images! Those are def going into this hypothetical collection.

I feel a full-on essay coming on.

[Doktor Howl]

On topic:

"Admit it, you've always laughed at these bastards."

[Faust]

On topic:

"Admit it, you've always laughed at these bastards."

I like this.

Makes me think of this corruption of Voltaire:

I have never made but one prayer to Eris, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it.
In retrospect this was not the wisest request I have made.

[Bruno]

As an alternative to, or possibly in addition to trying to neutralize Rugged Indiviualism as a philosophy, maybe it would be also effective to, alternatively, try to redirect it?



Example enclosed:

[rong]

who really steers this sip?

[Cainad (dec.)]

Yes. Howl nailed it.

Let's try to put an end to the rugged individual meme.

Here's the main thing:  The rugged individualist meme - alongside American libertarianism in general - is a perfect extension of logic from an incorrect assumption.  Humans are by nature a cooperative species.  The mistake made by the RI/Libertarian crowd is that they assume that To cooperate with the group is to surrender your identity.

And that last bit is the part we have to attack.

I strongly agree. You can see it in the endless "Why don't they just..." responses to large-scale problems (displacement, rent being too damn expensive, healthcare costs). We're conditioned, on a pretty large scale, to only think about problems in terms of individual choices, as if your or my personal buying decisions can keep rent and healthcare costs down, or save the environment by boycotting plastic straws.

I lent Cram a book a few weeks ago, Custom Reality and You, that talks about this. It's very "Online" and would be hard to read for anyone who isn't acquainted with internet weirdos. Luckily, y'all are exactly the right audience for that kind of thing.

[Doktor Howl]

[altered]

That's something I need to see more of.

[Dildo Argentino]

How's about this one?

"RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS OF THE WORLD,UNITE!"

[chaotic neutral observer]

Picture of an idyllic wilderness scene.  Clear lake in the foreground, pine forest on one side, mountain in the background.
Caption: "THIS TOO SHALL PASS".

1950's advertising style picture.  Man seated in chair, reading paper, smiling as his children play at his feet.  Woman walking into room carrying food.  (This should feel like an ideal, but an ideal from the wrong era.  It's okay if it's ambiguous whether this is supposed to be about concern for the future, or about feminism; the viewer brings their own baggage).
Caption (using a sans-serif, narrow font with a dystopian feel): "THIS TOO SHALL PASS".

Picture of a young child eating an ice-cream cone in a park setting.
Caption (cutesy, cursive font): "THIS TOO SHALL PASS".

Industrial scene.  Maybe something from the Victorian era, with buildings spewing smoke into the air, or possibly a modern oil refinery.
Caption: "THIS TOO SHALL PASS"

Picture of a beached whale.
Caption: "THIS TOO SHALL PASS"

Starbucks Logo.
Caption: "THIS TOO SHALL PASS"

Portrait of Trump.  Make him look noble and patriotic.  American flag in the background, etc.
Caption: "THIS TOO SHALL PASS / and the sooner the better"