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Dichotomy - Rant W

Started by Zurtok Khan, September 05, 2005, 06:31:58 AM

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Zurtok Khan

September 05, 2005, 06:31:58 AM
So you think everything is black and white?  You think the world is the way it is and that is the way it is?  You 'know' that everything is right with the world because you're looking through rose colored glasses?  You 'know' that the world is full of shit because that's all you're smelling?

Dichotomy, Models, Graphs, Statistics, and all of the other abstractions are wrong.  They are certainly useful tools for understanding things, but they are ultimately useless.  A Model is a simplified version of what is ultimately a complex problem (it wouldn't be a problem if it had a simple answer, would it?), and ignores so many of the varibles that while it may get you thinking along the right path, can never really be trusted.  Graphs are no better.  Statistics are even more dangerous, because we take them so seriously.  52% of all 6 month olds drool more then Roger.  That doesn't make the other 48% bad, and it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them, only that they drool less then Roger.

Dichotomy is the most dangerous.  Greyface vs. Discordian.  Madonna vs. Whore.  People are bad, people are good.  Eris exists, and Eris doesn't exist.  I think we need to get over this attitude about sides and good vs. evil and all that shit.

Everything is varying shades of grey, nothing lands on the extremes, it might be closer to one side or another, it might be close to all the way.  That's of course what we have Gods for (and what are Gods except models of our own universe, thus making them exist and not existing).  Satan is the ultimate evil and Yahweh/Jehovah is the ultimate good if you're a Christian.  It's rather nice of them to play at it for us.

None of us here is a "perfect" or "true" Discordian.  It's not possible to be.  No one, not even Good ol' Bushy boy is a "perfect" or "true" Greyface, no matter how hard he tries to destroy the world.

Our beloved (or behated) Chaos, Order, Constructive, and Destructive, are just Models for tendancies.  We need to treat them as such.  No one of us will ever become the embodiment of one of them, the ripple effects we cause with every action will see to that.  That's what we have Eris for.

Of couse, now I'm not entirely sure what it is I've written.  I think I got my point across, but I shall reiterate:  Dichotomy and all of it's relatives are simplifications of the more complex issues, they put your feet on the right path, but don't become tied to them, because they will only hold you down.

Or something like that.
Resistance is Fertile.

Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more.
-Mark Twain

I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
-Mark Twain

The Good Reverend Roger

#1
September 05, 2005, 01:10:22 PM
You'll pay for that, one fine day. :lol:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

East Coast Hustle

#2
September 05, 2005, 03:33:17 PM
good stuff, Z.

8)
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Cain

#3
September 05, 2005, 03:36:20 PM
True, plurality and complexity are the names of the game.

The Good Reverend Roger

#4
September 05, 2005, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: CainTrue, plurality and complexity are the names of the game.

Actually, I have to disagree.  The insistence that there is NO black and white, NO good and evil, is just as silly as stating that EVERYTHING is black and white.

For all practical purposes, Bush IS evil.  Hell, even Hitler loved his dog...but that didn't matter to 6,000,000 Jews (and two circus clowns).
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

#5
September 05, 2005, 03:53:02 PM
Yes, Bush is evil, and so was Hitler, but drawing from them to say "every Republican is evil" or "all Communists are good because Hitler is a fascist and look what he did" was more along the lines of my thinking.

bob

#6
September 05, 2005, 03:53:13 PM
Will they ever find a unified theory of physics?
String theory - the top contender currently - involves 11 dimensions and a new force called supergravity [seriously]. And if a theory is found to explain life, the universe and everything, will the universe not cease to exist once it has been found out?
chop wood, carry water

The Good Reverend Roger

#7
September 05, 2005, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: CainYes, Bush is evil, and so was Hitler, but drawing from them to say "every Republican is evil" or "all Communists are good because Hitler is a fascist and look what he did" was more along the lines of my thinking.

Yes, but the statement that "dichotomies are bad" implies that particular cases can't be judged, rather than just denying generalizations.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#8
September 05, 2005, 03:56:03 PM
Quote from: bobWill they ever find a unified theory of physics?
String theory - the top contender currently - involves 11 dimensions and a new force called supergravity [seriously]. And if a theory is found to explain life, the universe and everything, will the universe not cease to exist once it has been found out?

And this is relevant to the topic at hand...how?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

#9
September 06, 2005, 06:34:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: CainYes, Bush is evil, and so was Hitler, but drawing from them to say "every Republican is evil" or "all Communists are good because Hitler is a fascist and look what he did" was more along the lines of my thinking.

Yes, but the statement that "dichotomies are bad" implies that particular cases can't be judged, rather than just denying generalizations.


but only if you need a 1 or a 0 as an answer... It's like saying, if a case is 20% bad and 80% good, you're probably gonna go with "good".

Now, if you get 49% to 51%, or even 50-50,  It seems like the judgement might be entirely subjective, but at least you can make it clear that it's subjective.

or, if you get 50-50, you could say to yourself, "option a and option b are both equally good and bad... I'm gonna go with option c".  This way, a multi-valued judgement system can yeild more positive results than an either-or system.

gnimbley

#10
September 06, 2005, 08:25:21 PM
51-49. That's like the choice between Bush and Kerry, right?
I am beginning to see the light.

LMNO

#11
September 06, 2005, 08:29:30 PM
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