Son Of Trollaxian Discourse: The Devil's Salvation

[Trollax]

http://www.crimsonskies.com/universe/index.htm
For those of you who would like to see what the US could've turned out like. (If it had more narritavium at least.)

Now to our main topic...

Recently, A recent ex-friend of mine made a passing comment during one of our regular theological discxussions that made me reach several conclusions about the nature of religion and salvation.
He happened to mention that a gay acquaintance of his has a sex addiction and that he and his other christian friends were attempting to "save" him.        
It is a credit to my own self control to this point that I have not committed assault?ñ yet.        
Being a Psychology major I am well aware that the root of behaviour lies in the individual not in supposed lifestyle choices.
But What sickened me to the core is that instead of recommending this person get help he recommended god instead. God is not the panaeca for every ailment, not even eris is.
This bible-bashing fiend actually believes that a bible can change not only this person's errant behaviour but also "cure" his homosexuality. The christian faith (like all other faiths) is a perceptual matrix built on semantical interpretations of implicit ideals and tendencies in the human soul and the world itself. That does not make it the be all and end all, if it was everyone who joined would never leave, because they would always be satisfied.
Anyways, while musing on this on my bus ride home I wrote down a few things...

If religion teaches "compassion" then why do even"compassionate" religious folk attempt to "save" everyone and convert them?
Compassion is helping a starving child and not enforcing one's belief upon them, compassion is getting help for an alcaholic not sending them to a preacher.

This is vanity, clear-cut, vanity. Vanity tells us that god said: Go out into the world and convert everyone to the faith It doesn't matter if says that in the bible, the bible is the word of men paraphrasing god and speaking for god, putting words into gods mouth. Often for their own ends and beleifs.
True compassion is to help where needed, when needed, in whatever capacity you can, altruisticaly!!!!!!!!!!!  Not with the provisior: "You must convert to the faith to before you can be helped." Or: "you must convert to the faith in order to repay me."

The warrior sees no difference between these two statements until they are clarified:
The demon says: "Let me help you."
The angel says: "I will help you."
Paulo Cohelo

That's where I've pulled the topic heading from people. It is literally the work of self-rightiousness (perceptual evil if you will) that says: "Only those who believe as I do shall get into heaven."

Furthermore, we can only save ourselves in this light. Why? because compassion does not force, yes one may intercede to prevent someone from doing something which may harm themself or others or that they may have cause to regret later. But be careful, because even harm and regret are relative terms.

It is egoism to assume we are holy or right or worthy. We may be, but when it comes to others the final decision is theirs...

"Dost thou wish to better thyself?" ~Principia Discordia~

Salvation is a rare and expensive treasure, it is not given but taken. Taken in one sense that it is stolen from the lap of god by our self-declaration of our own divinity. Taken in another sense that it is offered freely only to those with the courage to take it.

We fear what we it must take, what it involves, but once we have it the trials we have faced in getting it are trivial by comparison.

~Trollax~

[Z³]

If the jesus had a point, I'm afraid the christians missed it.

There are good things in the bible, but its mixed in with a bunch of blatant lies and political propaganda.

I feel the same way about modern satanism (mostly la vey, but crowley as well.)

I used to post on the 600 club forums, but because I didnt agree with them I wasnt very well liked. Modern Satanism is good on one point. It is stupid to neglect yourself by blindly swallowing faith, and it is important to educate and better yourself. Unfortunately the whole philosophy is so blatantly selfish that in the end it becomes a degenerative thing (this is my opinion).

Because I have freed myself from the shackles of blind faith, I am not christian.

But because I am not purely motivated by self interest, or hedonism, I do not agree with the philosophies that have made themselves the antithesis of christian belief. I will not simply shift from one extreme to the other, blindly or otherwise, as many have done.

So there is all of that which falls in between, or rather outside.



It seems to me, that the best thing to do, is to look around you and figure it out for yourself. If you want to be a spiritual person it becomes necessary to become your own prophet. If christianity teaches people to beware of false prophets, in the end it would be necessary to do this anyway in order to be a "proper" christian (thats the personal definition of proper, not the collective one).



I have come to believe that all faiths are wrong, and all of them correct, just not at the same time.

If there is such a thing as one omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent force... then the pathways to understanding that force would exist in all theologies and philosophies, but because human beings are so small minded (literally) they seem to lack the ablity to focus on more than one thing at a time.

Silly monkeys.

So there, you have the number 1. This is the whole of the thing.
If you divide the number into pieces, you get fractions. Anything that isnt everything is a fraction. I am a fraction, you are a fraction.

Each fraction relates to the whole differently, if you multiply different fractions times one... you get the fraction. Our worlds begin and end within our own perception.

But that wont prevent us from relating to each other. When you multiply fractions by fractions... you get different fractions. When you add, divide and subtract... they all turn out differently.

There are a lot of places I could go with this, but this post is getting long, and I'd prefer to leave it open ended.

[livid E. T.]

You know if they're saving all these people, where do they spend them?

[livid E. T.]

Oh wait, maybe they save them but they have to convert them because the people market isn't a very stable one. I'd like to see a conversion table with the value of a person's soul.

[Y.M. Hut]

I have come to believe that all faiths are wrong, and all of them correct, just not at the same time.

That is the best summary of my faith (or lack thereof) that I have ever seen. I like to think of myself as a pantheistic atheist; all is true and all is false, simultaneously and conversely never at the same time. The wonderful contradiction of it all.


livid, I've heard (and excuse my lack of indepth knowledge in Christian theology for it's never really interested me) that there is a "competition" between God and Satan over Earthly souls. There is a contest between the two on who can accumulate the greatest amount (and perhaps quality) of souls. So perhaps there is an economy of the soul, with currency as you had mentioned and advanced bartering systems.

[Lister]

I have been wondering why people have always (since the dawn of time and stuff, or at least since the Ice started melting and frozen dinosaur was on the daily menu) needed something bigger, better and stronger than themselves?
It must be artificial/conditioned fear of course, but can we blame all of the conditioning on the "evil government/shaman/inquisition/druid/fairy/..."?
I think loads of this belief (and fear of) in those superbeings comes from a self-delusion to cope with reality...  Self-delusions of CONTROL over their reality.
Forget THEM controlling the masses for a minute, and think about the individuals that are to blame for religion.
People like to be in control of their lives in general.  Everybody is a slave in a way, but at least we see the results of the stuff we do.  
But there is also stuff you can't control...  A forest fire, a house struck by lightning, a plague, a flood, the apocalypse,...  And suddenly people start to freak out, and their brain starts to implode because they "just-can't-handle-it", and they need someone to blame...
Their mind creates some illusion of some all-powerfull being who makes all this stuff happen (or one who prevents all this stuff), and suddenly they control the situation again.
Of course!  By praying/offering/...  You can please this being so the being makes sure all this bad stuff doesn't happen to you...  Sssssswwweeeeeeeetttt Control...  Oh, how we missed thee...

But then your cow gets a calf with 5 arses, your horse kicks you in the nuts and lightning strikes your dog...  Oh Woe!  My god hast abandoned me!  It must be something I've done, or not done right!  Why doesn't my god tell me how to please it?  I want CONTROL!
Then a beggar, having overheard the farmer's lament, knocks on the door and says "for a meal I can tell you how to please superbeing... He wants you to hold your knife in your left hand, and use a live chicken instead of a dead one.".  The farmer was delighted to hear the answer, so he gave the beggar the meal he demanded.  He also gave the beggar all his moonshine because superbeing didn't like you to use moonshine apparantly.
The next day, your cow gives more milk than ever, you kicked your horse in his nuts and lightning didn't strike the charred remains of your dog.  Your God likes you again!  Control!  YAY!
Word gets around, and soon everyone follows the beggars advice, who was getting more free meals than ever...  Especially since he started about feeding the hungry and stuff.
Everytime the attention of the village wavered and they started to see through the sham, the beggar invented more rules so the villagers would remain in fear of doing something wrong.  

Pretty soon the beggar was head of the whole village because he was in direkt kontakt with superbeing...
And superbeing just said that the arseheads in the next village had offended it, and that they needed to be wiped out...

No, superbeing can't do it itself; its aim with the lightning has been a bit off lately, ever since it has gotten artritis.

[Lister]

A shameless bump of one of my favorite topics in the history of my presence on this board.

[SMFabal]

I have been wondering why people have always (since the dawn of time and stuff, or at least since the Ice started melting and frozen dinosaur was on the daily menu) needed something bigger, better and stronger than themselves?

Stand outside under a Tampa thunderhead. You'll KNOW why!

Man first heard God through the voice in the thunder

[The Commander]

Woo hoo Joseph Campell!  I love that man!

The Commander
DIA

[DJRubberducky]

Oh wait, maybe they save them but they have to convert them because the people market isn't a very stable one. I'd like to see a conversion table with the value of a person's soul.

http://www.wewantyoursoul.com/index.php

Mine's worth £16790!

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Jesus saves souls, but Moses invests. Buddha redeems them for valuable prizes. And Eris, well...She sets them free.

[Slarti]

"""Your soul is worth £7490. For your peace of mind, 87% of people have a purer soul than you."""

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

It's a good thing Eris made me a free agent on the soul market, then.

[Icarus Elektro Llama]

I think jehova and lucifer collect souls in spheres and then have giant battles where every soul has different power ups.

Gotta catch em all !

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

But Lucifer does give his souls a good time.