The upside of down

[Bhode_Sativa]

I heard this guy speak on NPR and he sounded intelligent, and the things he talked about seem to have relevance to the questions of "What are we doing? Where are we going?"  His new book, The Upside of Down, talks about societal stresses that impact the future of civilization.  I'm going to get a copy today when the stores open.  I've read the prologue which can be found here:  http://www.theupsideofdown.com/pdf/theupsideofdown-prologue.pdf and he makes a lot of sense, especially in his comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse with America's current situation.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

[Jenne]

I heard this guy speak on NPR and he sounded intelligent, and the things he talked about seem to have relevance to the questions of "What are we doing? Where are we going?" His new book, The Upside of Down, talks about societal stresses that impact the future of civilization. I'm going to get a copy today when the stores open. I've read the prologue which can be found here: http://www.theupsideofdown.com/pdf/theupsideofdown-prologue.pdf and he makes a lot of sense, especially in his comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse with America's current situation.

That seems a popular theme these days, comparison of the fall of the US Empire to the fall of Rome... *wonders when the HBO special will be out*

[Cain]

Republic or Empire?  Because all the comparisons I see are to the Empire, but I'm with Rog on the Republic being more likely.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I heard this guy speak on NPR and he sounded intelligent, and the things he talked about seem to have relevance to the questions of "What are we doing? Where are we going?" His new book, The Upside of Down, talks about societal stresses that impact the future of civilization. I'm going to get a copy today when the stores open. I've read the prologue which can be found here: http://www.theupsideofdown.com/pdf/theupsideofdown-prologue.pdf and he makes a lot of sense, especially in his comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse with America's current situation.

That seems a popular theme these days, comparison of the fall of the US Empire to the fall of Rome... *wonders when the HBO special will be out*

Falling is the final stage in the product lifecycle of any empire. Ironic that imperialists can't seem to get their heads around this with the wealth of historical data out there. Everything in nature dies and rots, even societies.

[LHX]

I heard this guy speak on NPR and he sounded intelligent, and the things he talked about seem to have relevance to the questions of "What are we doing? Where are we going?" His new book, The Upside of Down, talks about societal stresses that impact the future of civilization. I'm going to get a copy today when the stores open. I've read the prologue which can be found here: http://www.theupsideofdown.com/pdf/theupsideofdown-prologue.pdf and he makes a lot of sense, especially in his comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse with America's current situation.

That seems a popular theme these days, comparison of the fall of the US Empire to the fall of Rome... *wonders when the HBO special will be out*

Falling is the final stage in the product lifecycle of any empire. Ironic that imperialists can't seem to get their heads around this with the wealth of historical data out there. Everything in nature dies and rots, even societies.

which begs the question: why is everybody/everything constantly on the run trying to avoid this?

it makes so much more sense to move toward it with as much tact as possible

[P3nT4gR4m]

I heard this guy speak on NPR and he sounded intelligent, and the things he talked about seem to have relevance to the questions of "What are we doing? Where are we going?" His new book, The Upside of Down, talks about societal stresses that impact the future of civilization. I'm going to get a copy today when the stores open. I've read the prologue which can be found here: http://www.theupsideofdown.com/pdf/theupsideofdown-prologue.pdf and he makes a lot of sense, especially in his comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse with America's current situation.

That seems a popular theme these days, comparison of the fall of the US Empire to the fall of Rome... *wonders when the HBO special will be out*

Falling is the final stage in the product lifecycle of any empire. Ironic that imperialists can't seem to get their heads around this with the wealth of historical data out there. Everything in nature dies and rots, even societies.

which begs the question: why is everybody/everything constantly on the run trying to avoid this?

it makes so much more sense to move toward it with as much tact as possible

Tact my left asscheek! Break out the dynamite and watch the pretty lights.

[B_M_W]

I heard this guy speak on NPR and he sounded intelligent, and the things he talked about seem to have relevance to the questions of "What are we doing? Where are we going?" His new book, The Upside of Down, talks about societal stresses that impact the future of civilization. I'm going to get a copy today when the stores open. I've read the prologue which can be found here: http://www.theupsideofdown.com/pdf/theupsideofdown-prologue.pdf and he makes a lot of sense, especially in his comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse with America's current situation.

That seems a popular theme these days, comparison of the fall of the US Empire to the fall of Rome... *wonders when the HBO special will be out*

Falling is the final stage in the product lifecycle of any empire. Ironic that imperialists can't seem to get their heads around this with the wealth of historical data out there. Everything in nature dies and rots, even societies.

which begs the question: why is everybody/everything constantly on the run trying to avoid this?

it makes so much more sense to move toward it with as much tact as possible

To survive, biological programming has to put emphasis on processes that avoid loss of metabolism (read death). In post sentience evolution, this has changed from a merely physiological condition to a psychological one as well. And fear of death has moved from "fear of self dying" to "fear of assets 'dying'".

Along with this programming, you get physiological processes that promote security, just as there are physiological processes that seek security. The mind seeks a dynamic equilibrium just as the body does. Such processes need to, by nature, resist large amounts of change. From a physiological side, this is nessesary to keep the organism's metabolism functioning. Extremes of input: too much sodium, too little calcium, etc, are rectified by buffers, storages, and mechanisms. Thus the physiology resists change, promotes security.

In post sentience evolution, the psychology has followed in trend. It resists change, and promotes security. But just because it does, doesn't mean it works well enough anymore. There are no right or wrongs in biology; whatever has worked well enough has made it this far. So, essentially, if something doesn't work well enough, if the mechanisms in our psychology are flawed for the level of evolution on which we are travelling, then it is up to us to rectify that. If psychological "fear of death" does not suit the environment we are living in, then we should try to change that in ourselves. If psychological mechanisms that exist that resist change, that promote security, no longer suit the situation, then we should try to change those.

The question is, do we still have need of them,

or no?

[Jenne]

Your response seems tied to that other thread over there, BMW (points to where the "fear" discussion is), but ITA w/it.  So, *shrug*...do we indeed?  I often wonder.

[LHX]

Tact my left asscheek! Break out the dynamite and watch the pretty lights.

that isnt tact?

[B_M_W]

Your response seems tied to that other thread over there, BMW (points to where the "fear" discussion is), but ITA w/it.  So, *shrug*...do we indeed?  I often wonder.

A theory I have been working on, tying things together.  Trying to answer LHX's questions. Tying biology in with all this stuff.

[Jenne]

Yeah, I wouldn't be able to separate the biology from it, personally.  I believe we are creatures of our bodies.  If that makes sense.

The history of our genome and our evolution are tied with our psychological experiences, in every way, to my mind.  That's what studying the biologies of other organisms teaches us, time and again.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

None of this changes the fact that Bhode is an assbag.

[Thurnez Isa]

None of this changes the fact that Bhode is an assbag.

your so relentless

[B_M_W]

None of this changes the fact that Bhode is an assbag.

Thus the massive threadjack.