ITT, We whine about how bad humanity is (especially white peoples), and rip off

[Jenne]

My music taste is varied and random. I can't get in any kind of music discussion because my taste seems arbitrary. Words generally take the importance though.

Heh - my opinion on it is that music can stand on its own without words, but if it's got words, then those are what will receive my attention. There are parts of Les Miserables that irk the snot out of me *kleenex* 'cause it's two song lines going at the same time on top of each other, and I can't follow them both.

Odd thing with my brain...if I want to engage my brain without distracting it (like, totally background music), it HAS to be instrumental. Otherwise I want to listen to the words instead of focusing on whatever else. I have to turn down the radio in my truck if I want to have a serious conversation with someone, too.

I'm somewhat like that, but I find that if the music is truly shitty and I can't understand the words, then fuck that and I don't want to ever listen to it.

Afghan music ftl.

Thats sad. Discounting a whole country of music. I have heard some gorgeous afgan music, full of emotion. I've never heard it again though.

Well, I can only speak from my own experience, can't I?

And most that I hear is a two-to-three note experience, with very very little variation in percussion or strings.  It truly sucks.  The poetry residing in the music apparently rocks, but because I can't undertand it, to me, the song sucks even more.  Here's this beautiful piece of poetry, but it's unreachable, and I have to still listen to it and endure it, as the rest of it sounds like a few ba-bum-ba-bum's with a tee-dee-tee-dee and a dying cow voice in accompaniment.

*shrug*

I adore Indian music, on the flipside.  And Persian music as well.  It has VERVE.

[Jenne]

One word - "Emotion".

Troof.  Music has to reach your gut to be good.  Otherwise, it's just kinda noisy.

[P3nT4gR4m]

One word - "Emotion".

Troof.  Music has to reach your gut to be good.  Otherwise, it's just kinda noisy.

It was the -just kinda noisy - type of music I was trying to defend with this. I'm thinking the sex pistols. Not a bunch of motzarts by any stretch but they were angry enough to get a whole room full of people jumping up and down.

[hunter s.durden]

I'm tripping balls right now

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm tripping balls right now

Is that one of those native american names?

If so I'm dances with chillum

[hunter s.durden]

no i am really tripping hard
ego is gone

[Triple Zero]

ok, so basically They^TM got the last few generations completely hooked to guitar music that is incredibly expensive to produce "correctly"?

and now They have deluded us into thinking music is and should be totally expensive to produce, in order to sound "right".

welcome to yet another bar in your prison.

now, somebody already spoke about electronic music. the stuff Silly described is already happening for the electronic music scene, has been happening for years already, in fact. semi underground techno "net-labels" are blossoming.
sure, there's still a difference between people who got the right skills to balance the sounds, master, equalize etc, and those who don't quite understand that yet. but there's tutorials out there and of course people are willing to learn, as you can simply hear the difference. plus data is passed all over the place, people are remixing and remastering eachothers tracks, because electronica makes this so easy.
as far as vocals go, i wasn't kidding about the vocoders. autotuners. hell, even speech synthesizers are being used! otherwise you just sample some voice, and warp it up until it becomes something new.

and suddenly, all it takes has become talent, musical insight, inspiration and emotion, you know the stuff we actually love about music. not the million dollar budget.
then, once that's out of the way, we can perhaps take a good look at what "intellectual property" is actually supposed to mean, what we want it to mean. because it should really be about the protection of ideas, right? not the protection of extreme budgets that had to be burned in order to implement an idea.

so what, you cannot make smooth sounding cleanroom recorded whatever guitar rock music without a million dollar budget? well that sucks, but as soon as anything becomes significantly larger than a small group of people can produce, you will have a Machine to deal with.

now, not everyone likes electronica but that's cutting yourself short imo cause there's zillions of styles out there. don't think it's all boom-boom tekkno.
also there's probably also other ways besides using (software)synthesizers to make good quality music on a small budget (though you will be needing a computer to master the sound). so it won't sound like Nirvana, but we already had Nirvana. been there, done that, got the merchandise.
time to move on. and if it's time for people to start "do it for yourself, Schmuck", then this is probably the way to go.

ok there's probably a lot of holes to be shot in what i just wrote, but let's hear it then

(edited for fixing bb tags)

[P3nT4gR4m]

so what, you cannot make smooth sounding cleanroom recorded whatever guitar rock music without a million dollar budget? well that sucks, but as soon as anything becomes significantly larger than a small group of people can produce, you will have a Machine to deal with.

A little lightbulb just went off in my fucking stupid head!!!!

[Triple Zero]

of course you still need to build a Cathedral once in a while, and you need a lot of people to do it, but such things could/should very well be the exception not the rule.

and it doesn't mean that smaller beautiful shit can't be built by "amateurs".

[LMNO]

000, there's nothing wrong with what you said, as far as I read.

What I read was, "If your intended end result is to make music that doesn't sound like it was recorded with high-end equipment in an aesthetically pleasing acoustic environment, don't.  If you want a sound that only takes a few hundred bucks to produce, do it."


It all depends on what your end goal is.  A $200 DIY punk album can be just as powerful as Houses of the Holy.  My point is that you'll never get the one to sound like the other, no matter how powerful your computer is.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Acoustic modelling will catch up eventually. I already got a cab simulator on my fx box but you're right - things like drumkits and the like are going to have to wait for immersion vr - still a long way off.

[Triple Zero]

hey, you could probably do some interesting drum-computing with that new nintendo Wii wand thingy.

though on the other hand, you don't need immersion VR, you can just use an electronic drumkit. works very nice, you are actually drumming but on some pressure sensitive sensor plates instead. you get different sounds depending on where you hit, how hard you hit etc.
since output is digital, recording will be clean.

physical models aren't that hard to build. i implemented myself a variation Karplus-Strong guitar snare algo, some friends got a pretty good hoeboe (sp?) going [it helped that one of them was a fanatic hoeboe player].
except for the Chinese gong. some guy wrote a masters thesis about that, it's pretty much impossible to model such a huge metal (nonlinear) plate efficiently.

but why settle for existing elements? you could emulate instruments that would be physically unplayable (for ex, you'd need three arms, one of which would have to be two meters long, stuff like that).

ahh back in the days when i programmed that stuff. i couldn't and still can't write any decent tune/melody, but i coded some small bits that created some kickass bleeps/bass/weirdness.

[P3nT4gR4m]

hey, you could probably do some interesting drum-computing with that new nintendo Wii wand thingy.

though on the other hand, you don't need immersion VR, you can just use an electronic drumkit. works very nice, you are actually drumming but on some pressure sensitive sensor plates instead. you get different sounds depending on where you hit, how hard you hit etc.
since output is digital, recording will be clean.

physical models aren't that hard to build. i implemented myself a variation Karplus-Strong guitar snare algo, some friends got a pretty good hoeboe (sp?) going [it helped that one of them was a fanatic hoeboe player].
except for the Chinese gong. some guy wrote a masters thesis about that, it's pretty much impossible to model such a huge metal (nonlinear) plate efficiently.

but why settle for existing elements? you could emulate instruments that would be physically unplayable (for ex, you'd need three arms, one of which would have to be two meters long, stuff like that).

ahh back in the days when i programmed that stuff. i couldn't and still can't write any decent tune/melody, but i coded some small bits that created some kickass bleeps/bass/weirdness.

I got a roland guitar synth a while back. Was awesome playing everything from keyboards to flutes to drums on guitar. Sequencing part totally killed it for me tho. Slows the whole creative process down to a slog.

[LMNO]

Acoustic modelling will catch up eventually. I already got a cab simulator on my fx box but you're right - things like drumkits and the like are going to have to wait for immersion vr - still a long way off.

Sorry to burst yr bubble, but analog acoustics will always sound different.  Too many variables to properly compute.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Acoustic modelling will catch up eventually. I already got a cab simulator on my fx box but you're right - things like drumkits and the like are going to have to wait for immersion vr - still a long way off.

Sorry to burst yr bubble, but analog acoustics will always sound different.  Too many variables to properly compute.

Sound waves obey fairly straightforward rules. Current problems are accurately simulating their behaviour in a big area fast enough. Principle is no different from raytracing, tho, give it time It'll be done.