n00b+booze= No Conversion :(

[Payne]

Its hard to force someone to open their eyes, you may blind them.

I'm sitting in a pub on a Tuesday afternoon. Now there is nothing unusual about this, in fact it is very much a ritual. A friend of mine is sitting next to me with a pint of what he calls lager, but I call cats urine. But who am I to talk, drinking, as I am, whisky polluted with ice and coke.

The conversation is dying. He has told me about his failure to get a driving licence, his mothers refusal to allow him to buy a motorbike and the re-write of the screenplay for an old Bond movie.

I have said very little.

In the middle of his fantasising about sending his dross to a production company, I change tack, quite suddenly, and begin talking to him about personal freedom. What it means to him.
He orders another lager, and asks me to repeat my question, which I do.

He tells me that to him, personal freedom is being able to get around without asking his mother to drive him (for the record, he lives in the sticks). I then describe to him my version of personal freedom, which in essance boils down to knowing when someone trying to lead you by a chain, whatever that chain is.

He thinks I mean this literally, telling me that doesn't really happen in a civilised and free society like there is in Britain today, so I have to explain that I mean the kind that are forged in television, banks, family, psychiatry etc (again, my personal view).

He still doesn't understand, so I drop it. I order another drink. We talk over some of the finer points of his screenplay, a subject clearly very close to his heart. We discuss music and girls. By now I've had a bit more to drink, and as always happens, I get a bit more evangelical, a bit louder and soundbite-y.

I begin to rail at him, just a little, telling him that none of us are free. We are enslaved to our perceptions, and our perceptions are currently spoon fed to us by serious newscasters, by the views and opinions of family and friends, by our education. He replies by asking me if my opinion should be his new perception. This is a good point. Am I getting through to him? But no, he is being 'witty and urbane'.

I then make a fatal error, I tell him about the PD and the BIP pamphlet.

Now he thinks I'm in some weird cult, and he most definately doesn't want to be a pope.

I scratch this first, failed attempt up to experience and drop the topic. Next time, I will try to be sober first, have more understanding of what I'm talking about and I'll certainly make sure I leave off the subject with him for a few months.

Several hours later, we swagger out the pub, still talking about his fucking screenplay...

[Random Probability]

Welcome to my world, Payne.

Dig the name, btw.

Good try, but do never try using bits of the PD.  Two truths I will remind you of (for I am certain that you knew them already, you just didn't remember at the time).  Blame the booze.

1) Everything ever written, talked about, mentioned or otherwise transmitted in any meaningful way about anything to do with "awakening", "spirituality", or any other way you want to put that idea, it is all just a bunch of bullshit some other guy made up.  The best example is the Bible (most of us in western society are most familiar with this steaming pile of pseudo-literary feces).

That said, the point is rather obvious.  Make up your own bullshit.  Best to do this on the fly.  If you have your shit wired you'll do well.

2) Human beings are in the unique position of being on the verge of self-awareness.

A very low proportion of human beings are even capable of self-awareness.  To the greater majority of the unwashed masses reality is something of a delusion they keep having.  They don't understand why they do the things they do.  They just do them.  They are no better than animals.

I would suggest (perhaps not so politely) to formulate little tests to see if people around you are sentient, and if so, then attempt to enlighten them.

To quote the PD, "This book is a mirror.  If a monkey looks in, no prophet looks out."

[Payne]

Oh yeah, I know all that dude. It most certainly the deletirious effects of too many a whisky. Just wanted to throw this up on the board,

I took a bit of artistic licence, as this actually occurred over two seperate tuesday afternoon boozing sessions, and the first one was when I mentioned this forum, which was what made him think I was a stone-bonker cultist. At least there was a second convo. though, which means I may be able to argue more effectively in Da Future^tm.

I'm trying to refine my writing style, so when I have something more meaningful than n00b ranting, it will be legible.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well the day it ends when the sun comes up
And it starts when the sun goes down
Out on the backroads and on the back streets
Of every farm and factory town
There in the world of weekly wage
There's always a place out there
And the names and the faces are the same everywhere

Well the room is full it's a Friday night
We all wanna hear Louie Louie
Been a long hard day and a long hard life
And this is how we make it through it
It's a blue collar place a red blooded crowd
Tonight everything's all right
In honky tonk America

There's a flashing sign on a rain soaked street
That lights up just about dark
A welcome beacon on life's highway
When your weary and when you lost heart
Never say its loneliness
It's only the drinks and the band
But something brings us back here again and again

Well the room is full it's a Friday night
We all wanna hear Proud Mary
Been a long hard day and a long hard life
We all got our crosses to carry
It's a blue collar place a red blooded crowd
Tonight everything's all right
In honky tonk America

Well talk about freedom alright but maybe some other time
Tonight everyone's feeling fine

Well the room is full it's a Friday night
We all wanna hear Wolly Bully
Been a long hard day and a long hard life
Monday morning well all do our duty
It's a blue collar place a red blooded crowd
Tonight everything's all right
In honky tonk America

[Triple Zero]

nice try, Payne. though i agree with random probability, i think it's best to check out how intelligent/awake/sentient they are, before you start raving about this stuff.
a few people will come to a clear point of view on freedom by just steering the disussion to it (like you did),
others may need a bit more convincing, this is harder and i don' tlike to preach but even then, getting into that direction can get you some interesting viewpoints and ideas that bounce off the things you say (this is both a source for new ideas and ways of looking at things, as well as learning to formulate your own ideas and arguments in a clear manner),
then there's people you shouldn't bother with and just talk about booze women cars music etc nothing wrong with that, can be loads of fun, or very frustrating if you're in the mood for an evening of philosophical debate.

now, apologies for perhaps jacking this thread, but it really makes me wonder. you made the mistake of quoting the PD because you had had too much alcohol. but we make a point of calling upon hippies because the weed is clouding up their minds in a way.
if i had written this story, with "pub" substituted for "coffeeshop" or "in the sunny backgarden with a couple of friends", "lager" for "joint" and "whisky coke" for "bonghit" and ended with quoting the PD because i was so "zonked". would it be seen as "hippy ravings" or similarly "good try" ?
(and with LSD? mushrooms? cocaine? speed? heroin?)

maybe it's just the fact that the story is intermingled with "we were drinking .. and we ordered some more .. over another beer we .. i order another one .. now i've probably had one too many .. next time, I will try to be sober first .. we swagger out the pub"

look, it's not that i never drink too much (shit i'd be the first to admit i sometimes have a real problem with that), but to mention it so much in your story, kind of detracts from the point much? maybe once, to set the scene, maybe once more to explain why you started spouting PDisms.

edit: spelling

[LMNO]

Always make sure your mark is more drunk than you are.

[Payne]

All points noted for future reference. Thank you guys!

[LMNO]

btw, your avatar is REALLY GAY.




Fuckin' awesome.





LMNO
-Srsly.

[Payne]

The avatar is our love child. He is a homosexual, but we try to be tolerant of his sexual deviancy...

[LMNO]

That's very PC of you two.

[Random Probability]

Yeah, but it's smart to bang them by the edge of a cliff....

...so they push back....

[Triple Zero]

btw, to clarify, with "nice try" i meant that as a compliment, not the usual sarcastic meaning, but "good attempt", well you get it.

[Payne]

lol, its all good! I took it the way you meant it... I think 

I hope to one day write something of earth shattering relevence, but I know this day is distant. Until then I will effectively be writing a blog of drinking too much and spouting shite at the "innocent" bystanders...

Then again, maybe once was enough!

[Triple Zero]