Stop Trying to Save America‚Ñ¢

[RoninFox27]

Im sincerely impressed with this thread (not saying that means a damn thing to anyone) and i feel like i should contribute something but im hung over and not particularly articulate at the moment. So i guess i just want to say kudos to all of you.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Lincoln was indeed much less altruistic than we want to realize as a nation. Anyone who thinks Lincoln really wanted to "free the slaves" has probably missed actual study of history. Lysander Spooner did a great job of calling Lincoln's actions out during the time that it was all going on. If you haven't read "On Treason" I highly recommend it.

[Cain]

Spooner was the anarchist guy, wasn't he?  Tried to start his own bank and currency, but the Federal government shut him down, as I recall.

Some of the American anarchists produced very lucid analysis of politics, before many of them were co-opted by the Libertarians etc.

[Jenne]

Was it EdSource or EdVoice--one of the two has an article out this week that says the problem with history books is that they exist at all.  I need to find that article and expost it here.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Spooner was the anarchist guy, wasn't he?  Tried to start his own bank and currency, but the Federal government shut him down, as I recall.

Some of the American anarchists produced very lucid analysis of politics, before many of them were co-opted by the Libertarians etc.

Yeah, Spooner basically felt that anyone could enter into a contract (which is what he saw the Constitution as). However, only individuals that specifically agreed to that contract could be bound by it... thus his argument that almost no one in the South was a Traitor, because no living person in the South had agreed to the Constitution. Further, he argued that up to the Civil War, our nation was based on Voluntary Association. After the war, it was obvious that association was no longer voluntary. He held that instead of freeing slaves, Lincoln turned us into an entire nation of slaves.

[Jenne]

Yeah, Spooner basically felt that anyone could enter into a contract (which is what he saw the Constitution as). However, only individuals that specifically agreed to that contract could be bound by it... thus his argument that almost no one in the South was a Traitor, because no living person in the South had agreed to the Constitution. Further, he argued that up to the Civil War, our nation was based on Voluntary Association. After the war, it was obvious that association was no longer voluntary. He held that instead of freeing slaves, Lincoln turned us into an entire nation of slaves.

Old Spooner must've had a litany of bodyguards for coming up with theories like that.  I'll have to spelunk for his stuff.  Sounds like a very astute dude.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/NoTreason/NoTreason.html

[Jenne]

why thank you