BMW's Perfect Potato Soup

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel:  Chill.  I think you're missing the point here.


I was talking about making my own pork stock.

ECH said that Goya makes a  broth seasoning that apparently matches what would take me many hours.

That seasoning is called "Jamon".


No one said anything about adding cured pork to posole.

I was talking to ECH, who seems (unless I am reading it wrong) to be disagreeing with me about ham being the wrong flavor for posole.

Posole is not generally made with pre-prepared stock, it makes its own stock during the cooking process. You put onions and water on the pork, the pork and onions and water make yum. But to each his own!

Goya Jamon is an INTENSE ham flavor. I would not recommend it coming anywhere near posole, because that would taste weird. Unless you like intensely ham-flavored posole.

[East Coast Hustle]

That is not worthy of bearing the name "ham".

Listen up, guys. Ham, wondrous food that it is, was brought to the Americas by Spaniards, who consider it a vegetable. Posole has been eaten here (made with things other than pork) for a hell of a long time before those guys showed up. I will concede that pork is the superior meat for red posole, but putting CURED pork in it is abomination. It's up there with using canned hominy.

I don't know who these people are who put ham in posole, but I've never even heard of such a thing. HAM? In posole?

does smoked pork shoulder count as cured pork?

'cause if it does, most of the spanish-speaking west indies would disagree with you.

obviously, YMMV.

[East Coast Hustle]

as for the Jamon seasoning, it IS intense.

I recommend using it at 1/2 to 1/4 strength of the called-for directions, depending on context, and things like mouthfeel and viscosity.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That is not worthy of bearing the name "ham".

Listen up, guys. Ham, wondrous food that it is, was brought to the Americas by Spaniards, who consider it a vegetable. Posole has been eaten here (made with things other than pork) for a hell of a long time before those guys showed up. I will concede that pork is the superior meat for red posole, but putting CURED pork in it is abomination. It's up there with using canned hominy.

I don't know who these people are who put ham in posole, but I've never even heard of such a thing. HAM? In posole?

does smoked pork shoulder count as cured pork?

'cause if it does, most of the spanish-speaking west indies would disagree with you.

obviously, YMMV.

<shrug> could be a regional variation. Never heard of it. It would be an introduced dish there, not a native dish.

[East Coast Hustle]

everything is an introduced dish.

there ARE no natives here.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

everything is an introduced dish.

there ARE no natives here.

In the West Indies? Yeah, but I mean as opposed to where the dish came from, which is the region now known as Mexico and parts of neighboring nations.

[East Coast Hustle]

yeah, no natives there either.

no natives anywhere from Tierra del Fuego to Prudhoe bay, baby.

we're a hemisphere of interlopers.

[LMNO]

Here we go again...


[edit]Also, Nigel, please note that pigs were not indiginous to the Americas.  They were introduced by the Spanish.  Additionally:

Caribbean Arawak and Carib Indians smoked whole animals — iguanas, deer, snakes, marsh rats, and even humans — over open fires. They suspended these meats above the embers on a web of green saplings, calling this construction a barbacoa. Today, this word takes various forms — barbecue, bar-b-que, and bbq — and can be used to describe a variety of meats, processes, and events. You could technically barbecue some barbecue on your barbecue for tonight's barbecue.

(from http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15790)
[/edit]

[B_M_W]

Only natives on this planet are in the Eastern rift valley's of Africa.

And then, I bet they haven't been there for the past 2 million years.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Here we go again...


[edit]Also, Nigel, please note that pigs were not indiginous to the Americas.  They were introduced by the Spanish.  Additionally:

I already said that.

Caribbean Arawak and Carib Indians smoked whole animals — iguanas, deer, snakes, marsh rats, and even humans — over open fires. They suspended these meats above the embers on a web of green saplings, calling this construction a barbacoa. Today, this word takes various forms — barbecue, bar-b-que, and bbq — and can be used to describe a variety of meats, processes, and events. You could technically barbecue some barbecue on your barbecue for tonight's barbecue.

(from http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15790)
[/edit]

I didn't say American natives didn't smoke meat. I said that original, traditional posole is not traditionally made with cured meat. I'm talking about a recipe. It's a dish with a long and heavy tradition, and of course there are regional and family variations but it's an important dish for the indians of its region of origin, and is treated with a certain amount of reverence.

You can make it however you personally feel fit.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Listen up, guys. Ham, wondrous food that it is, was brought to the Americas by Spaniards, who consider it a vegetable.

(that part about the vegetable is a "joke".)

Posole has been eaten here (made with things other than pork) for a hell of a long time before those guys showed up.

(Made with things other than pork for obvious reasons, because, as I believe is common knowledge and is referenced in previous sentence about ham, pigs are an import.)

I will concede that pork is the superior meat for red posole, but putting CURED pork in it is abomination. It's up there with using canned hominy.

(Let me be more specific. Posole is a specific recipe with a history. It is revered in Mexico and the American southwest. The people of the West Indies can put anything they want in it and still call it "posole", just as the Japanese can put mayonnaise on pizza and still call it "pizza". In both cases, I think that's gross and weird and definitely non-traditional (of course, the "traditional" origins of American-style pizza are pretty recent and not very concrete, so that's a shitty example... not like posole, which is a revered traditional recipe that has been celebrated for thousands of years.)

[East Coast Hustle]

I have no regard for tradition, and I revere nothing.

IMHO, posole tastes better with a little smoked pork in it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I have no regard for tradition, and I revere nothing.

IMHO, posole tastes better with a little smoked pork in it.

That's a whole different discussion, then. Enjoy your posole!

[East Coast Hustle]

srsly though, Ricans and 'Nicans would look at you crazy if you tried to make that shit without some pork in it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's been made with pork for over 500 years. Fresh pork. Pork != ham.