Abortion is Murder

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

HIMEOBS jacks the aborted babies and they finish their development in HIMEOBS Warrior Pods^TM

... Sometimes they show the mother a fake fetus to leave no doubt.

It's a battle between HIMEOBS, who are pro-abortion for the purposes of building their army, and Christians, who are anti-abortion because if the unwanted babies are aborted they will have nothing to eat.

[East Coast Hustle]

you ARE being pissy.

recognize and move on, for fuck's sake. The intellectual aspects of this discussion are, frankly, very interesting.

I'm sure they are, for those who haven't seen this exact conversation (minus the injections of silliness) 43,000 times on Usenet.

What's a Usenet?

anyway, if you don't find it interesting, you're free to make the choice to not click on this thread.

[hunter s.durden]

Since polls have shown that more educated people are inclined to agree with pro-choice decisions, it would suggest that educated people with access to more information and possessing better analytical skills are better placed to make a decision, and have.

Polls? Educated people? Meaningless.
Bush went to Yale, and online polls have Ron Paul being elected Grand Moff.

  A person who is against abortion can critically assess standard biological and medical knowledge, as well as various moral positions to decide if a fetus can be considered a person or not. 

Simply because their conclusions are different (abortion is murder, murder is wrong) it doesn't neccissarily make them wrong or, more importantly, irrational.They aren't bad people because they came up with a different conclusion.

Anyway, this whole thread seems to have proven my point.
You're all freedom loving intellectuals, saving the world from the evil Jesus-lovers out to take away all of your rights. It's impossible for someone to rationally conclude that a fetus is alive, and it's an affront to Eris to try and stop someone from committing murder, as long as you don't believe it's murder.

They are closed minded for not hearing you out, and you're heroic for not hearing them out.

And the most disgusting thing in this whole epic quagmire:

1. I'm not saying that I think that people should be allowed to legislate choices out of existence, but they certainly have the right to publically and vocally voice their own opinions. you seem to be saying that if their opinion is that abortion is murder that this makes them fanatical morons regardless of their legislative intent. how does believing that life begins at conception equate to being a fanatical moron?

ECH, of all people, is the one guy who is getting it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

you ARE being pissy.

recognize and move on, for fuck's sake. The intellectual aspects of this discussion are, frankly, very interesting.

I'm sure they are, for those who haven't seen this exact conversation (minus the injections of silliness) 43,000 times on Usenet.

What's a Usenet?

anyway, if you don't find it interesting, you're free to make the choice to not click on this thread.

I'm finding it amusing, which is reason enough to click on it.

[East Coast Hustle]

srsly though...

what's a Usenet?


also, Hunter, I think that alot of people are conflating your stance that Abortion is, indeed, murder with the idea that it should be made illegal. Nowhere in this thread did I see you opine that abortion should be illegal or legislatively fucked with in any way. If I understood you corectly, you posited that while legal abortions are necessary and should not be infringed upon, it is still taking a life and should be discussed as such if we are to be intellectually honest; also that people who felt strongly enough about the issue to voice their opinion publicly should not automatically be dismissed as fundie nutjobs. Personally, I think that abortion IS taking a life and IS morally unfortunate ("wrong" is far too absolute for my taste in this context) and I would implore any woman that I impregnated to keep the baby even if it meant that I had to raised it myself. I would never, however, advocate any legal infringement on a woman's right to make that decision for herself. But I think that most of those who do advocate that course of action do so out of an honest desire to maintain the sanctity of human life (regardless of what they think about the death penalty or euthanasia or any of that shit; it's irrelevant conflation and anyway, we can't go around expecting every schmuck on the street to be that self-aware) and not out of an evil desire to subjugate those damn slut women. Remember, for every clinic bomber/doctor shooter/Jerry Falwell, there are thousands of generally good people who just have a misguided solution to a problem that is important to them. Who are we to crucify them?

this probably deserves its own thread, but I'm bothered by the attitude of alot of people on this board that WE know what's best for everyone else because WE are somehow more enlightened.

IIRC, the Khmer Rouge had the same idea. And no, I'm not really comparing PD.com to a genocidal authoritarian regime, but every path is made up of steps.

[hunter s.durden]

But I think that most of those who do advocate that course of action do so out of an honest desire to maintain the sanctity of human life (regardless of what they think about the death penalty or euthanasia or any of that shit; it's irrelevant conflation and anyway, we can't go around expecting every schmuck on the street to be that self-aware) and not out of an evil desire to subjugate those damn slut women. Remember, for every clinic bomber/doctor shooter/Jerry Falwell, there are thousands of generally good people who just have a misguided solution to a problem that is important to them. Who are we to crucify them?

This was the point that continually got buried. I'm not sure whether everyone's mind got completely clouded by the "fist-in-the-dick" way I originally presented my stance (in the opening of the OP), or whether the "us v. them" instinct kicked in at the scent of a controversial topic, but somehow things got fucked. I was honestly starting to wonder if I was losing my mind again, and not typing what I thought I was. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that someone with a drasticly opposing viewpoint might not be pure evil incarnate.

If I understood you corectly, you posited that while legal abortions are necessary and should not be infringed upon, it is still taking a life and should be discussed as such if we are to be intellectually honest;

I actually go a step further, and agree with people like Cain, that the jelly lump isn't even human yet. It's not taking a life in my eyes. However, the Pro-lifers don't see through my eyes, and I can respect and recognize that.

this probably deserves its own thread, but I'm bothered by the attitude of alot of people on this board that WE know what's best for everyone else because WE are somehow more enlightened.

Start it up, see where it goes. We like to call ourselves open-minded, but isn't hard-lined absolutism on issues why we hate the Grays?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Dude, I agreed with you in my first post in this thread. I totally get your point, and I know anti-abortion people who aren't evil, insane baby-eating Christian terrorists. A lot of pagans I have met, of various kinds, are anti-abortion because they feel that abortion is inconsistent with their philosophy about life.

I can respect the anti-abortion viewpoint *when it is consistent*. If abortion is murder, then it's murder *even in cases of rape and incest*, or if the mother has a life-threatening medical condition.

I happen to disagree with them only on one point; that the human life in the womb is a human being. It's human, and it's alive. It gradually develops into a human being. Because this is my perspective, I cannot be convinced that it's murder... at least before the 3-month mark, where, in my view, the whole thing gets sketchy.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

As for everything else you've said, this is something I can't talk to you about, as you apparently believe that every Pro-lifer is a religious kook,

No, actually, you're the one saying "pro-choice" = "pro-abortion".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Don't make me start with the green peppers again, I actually find it distasteful even to talk about them.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Read your post again. by that logic, everyone who votes in an election is trying to force their position on others and is therefor a fanatical moron.

So?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

srsly though...

what's a Usenet?

Wait, are you really being serious about this or are you pulling my leg?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

They think it IS murder.

"They"?  Whose argument are you supporting?  Your own?  Someone else?  What?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

1. I'm not saying that I think that people should be allowed to legislate choices out of existence, but they certainly have the right to publically and vocally voice their own opinions. you seem to be saying that if their opinion is that abortion is murder that this makes them fanatical morons regardless of their legislative intent. how does believing that life begins at conception equate to being a fanatical moron?

ECH, of all people, is the one guy who is getting it.

They do have their right to their opinion.

And I have the right to publicly point and laugh at them.

[East Coast Hustle]

srsly though...

what's a Usenet?

Wait, are you really being serious about this or are you pulling my leg?

dead serious.

is it one of those things you have to put over your hair before you serve food?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

srsly though...

what's a Usenet?

Wait, are you really being serious about this or are you pulling my leg?

dead serious.

is it one of those things you have to put over your hair before you serve food?

Dude, I am never taking you seriously AGAIN.