Help - the truthers almost have me!

[P3nT4gR4m]

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer. 

[Thurnez Isa]

documents are taken out of context..
the experts are bullshit working out of their field..
and the people refuting it are scientists...
google the loosechange rebuttal or youtube screw Loose change

[LMNO]

First off, which version did you see?  He made three different ones, each with a slightly different conclusion.

[hooplala]

I've never even heard of this.  What's it about?

[LMNO]

9/11 was an inside plot by the US gvt; a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon; WTC collapse was a demolition, not a structural collapse.

[P3nT4gR4m]

First off, which version did you see?  He made three different ones, each with a slightly different conclusion.

Haven't got to the conclusion yet. I'm about 3/4 way through the first half (2-part torrent)

I think it's called "final cut" but I could be wrong I'll check again tonite

[hooplala]

My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

[LMNO]

Three easily debunked points:

1.  The cable spools at the pentagon are fucked up. 


2. Marvin Bush had nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of security at the World Trade Center, plus he left his position as a board member of the company that did provide security in June 2000, more than 14 months before the terrorist attacks.

3.  Osama doesn't wear a ring?  Bullshit.

[Faust]

To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

[P3nT4gR4m]

My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

I always tell people they used it to further aims to make a totalitarian state and secure the pipelines in Afghanistan.

Shit, my story is ten times as convincing as theirs and I've put no fucking effort whatsoever into inventing mine

[AFK]

To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

I'd be willing to entertain that part of the conspiracy theories.  It does seem to be a plausible scenario.  Though, there is that bit of audio that was released from a cell phone convo making it sound like some passengers were about to take on the hijackers.  

[hooplala]

My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

I always tell people they used it to further aims to make a totalitarian state and secure the pipelines in Afghanistan.

Shit, my story is ten times as convincing as theirs and I've put no fucking effort whatsoever into inventing mine

That makes some sense.  There's a part in Illuminatus that says that sort of thing would happen.  DAMN YOU RAW!!

[P3nT4gR4m]

My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

I always tell people they used it to further aims to make a totalitarian state and secure the pipelines in Afghanistan.

Shit, my story is ten times as convincing as theirs and I've put no fucking effort whatsoever into inventing mine

That makes some sense.  There's a part in Illuminatus that says that sort of thing would happen.  DAMN YOU RAW!!

Whenever I'm cooking up something like this I tend to take what happened as a direct "effect" and then shift that round to the "cause" position in the equation. Means you have the QED factor built in.

This is why the insurance scam thing surprises me - it looks like they went to a lot of effort to produce this and if the best conclusion they could come up with was a fkin remake of the titanic conspiracy then it's a bit of a shame IMO

[Lies]

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer. 

You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

[P3nT4gR4m]

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer. 

You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down