The Sacred Chao Te Ching

[LMNO]

With the above in mind, let's talk about Ch 24:

The Cabbage believes Order is most important.
The Pinealist sees Disorder as superior.
The General sees War in everything.
The Bureaucrat craves Authorization.
The Anarchist desires to be a bully on the playground.
All these things are balanced in Chaos,
And so do not succeed.
Therefore the followers of Eris like to poke them with sticks.


The message being, "believing in your illusions and not seeing your prison cell, forces your behavior in a single-minded, predictable fashion.  We like to make fun of people like that."

Suggestions for editing?

[Cramulus]

First Pass PDF Draft:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14714852/Sacred-Chao-Te-Ching

this was a quick & dirty text dump, disregard the style, layout, font, etc..




as for Ch24--

I think "Grayface" might be a good substitution for "cabbage". I think of cabbages as just boring people, not willfully worshiping order like their grayface cousins.
"Leader" a substitution for "Anarchist" --- (most anarchists I know would disagree with that line anyway)

and then move "Anarchist" to where "Pinealist" sits in line 2?

BUT if we're going for a looser interpretation of that chapter, we might pick the types of targets Discordians laugh at

We laugh at them because they buy into these illusions, right?

off the top of my head, some illusions:
Grayface - embraces the illusion that order is safe and good and disorder is dangerous and bad
Scientists - present the illusions of knowledge and "understanding"
Priests - present the illusions of faith
Your Boss - presents the illusion that you have to work for the man
The President - presents the illusion that we live in a singular coherent country
The Oppressed (of all flavors) - believe that their oppression is most important
The Celebrity - believes that the self is most important




When we attack the notion of self importance, maybe the Celebrity is a strong image. I picture kids growing up to believe that they will be rock stars and presidents. They are trying to make themselves into the Celebrity
which is laughable

[LMNO]

As a personal preference, I object to "scientist", as the pure definition of a scientist is one who is not sure of an answer, and has to test new hypothesis.

[Cramulus]

I was getting at the false duality between Science and Religion

[LMNO]

Yes, but that is usually made by people who are not scientists.




Also, I propose to come to decisions regarding chapters that have multiple interpretations.

Either we choose one over the other, or we create new chapters for them.


I'm sort of leaning towards the latter.

[the last yatto]

c24
Bureaucracy- presents the illusion that rules are good for the sake of having rules

[LMNO]

c24
Bureaucracy- presents the illusion that rules are good for the sake of having rules

This works for me.  Added bonus: not only is it a Discordian term, it's well understood by non-Discordians.

[the last yatto]

while i like some of yours id like to see them in a pention  like crams.
so its aneristic in its approach to telling you about the illusions or not

Cabbage- something illusion something rabbits something baseball cards for weridos
Pinealist- is the illusion that we live in a pineapple under the sea
Generals- presents the illusion of battlefield control
Anarchy- presents the illusion of self control

[LMNO]

Should I be concerned that I can't understand a fucking word of that?

[Roaring Biscuit!]

while i like some of yours id like to see them in a pention  like crams.
so its aneristic in its approach to telling you about the illusions or not

Cabbage- something illusion something rabbits something baseball cards for weridos
Pinealist- is the illusion that we live in a pineapple under the sea
Generals- presents the illusion of battlefield control
Anarchy- presents the illusion of self control

Should I be concerned that I can't understand a fucking word of that?

I think he's lost it...  its the cabbage bit that throws me...

[the last yatto]

cram's format
Bureaucracy- presents the illusion that rules are good for the sake of having rules

LMNO's format
The Bureaucrat craves Authorization.

[the last yatto]

[Honey]

If you've ever tried to shoot a basketball into a net (or, if you're like me a crumbled up piece of paper into a wastebasket) you'll notice that if you think about making the basket too hard---you'll never make it.  you have to shoot for the hoop before you think about shooting for the hoop.  or as the one fella said in zen and the art of archery (iirc) you have to let go of the arrow before you think about letting go of the arrow. I think the key term here that really helps to define wu wei is spontaneity.  What's nice about spontaneity is that you can NEVER be spontaneous on purpose.  it's something that arises from the moment.  and so when you TRY (as opposed to non-doing or non-interfearance) you put yourself in a double bind.  you become too busy TRYING instead of simply doing.  You find yourself TRYING to be spontaneous. 

or think of the kid playing and being silly making adults laugh without any self-awareness.  Then grandma and grandpa come in and mom says "hey, now do that cute dance you were doing for gram and grandpa!"  and the kid gets all shy because he was too busy just expressing himself.

or like in school you HAVE to read all of these books...and you never want to because it's required. then you pick up The Sound and the Fury years later when you really WANT to and realize just how awesome it is.

Anyway, that's my usual way of explaining it, fwiw.

The sports analogies fit the muscle memory concept I was trying to express.  The multi-layered memory is electric yet the movement is fluid.  During those moments something seems to happen to time too?

Non-attachment is like letting go of the self-conceived ideas that pin you down (like they do with butterflies?)   

Style can alter the content (or message), in fact, it must!

[Honey]

First Pass PDF Draft:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14714852/Sacred-Chao-Te-Ching

this was a quick & dirty text dump, disregard the style, layout, font, etc..

Thanks for putting that together!  I just now downloaded & took a look, it's so much easier to see that way!    

Hey & feel free to remove the Roger references or whatever if you want to use something (notwithstanding my personal proclivities, idiosyncrasies, ISSUES).  Maybe replace Roger or TGGR with Magnificent Bastard?  or some such? 

(Oh bruuuther, I just hate that word, y'know issues?  mostly 'cuz I HAVE so damn many!)

[Cain]

Reading this, and reading Ancient China on Postmodern Warfare suggests to me not only is a Discordian Art of War possible, it is downright desirable.