Daily reminder: not beating your partner is "controversial"

[AFK]

Wow, someone is feeling his oats, isn't he? 

Not really. I don't want a shit-flinging contest, because getting covered in shit isn't fun. No one wins.

But if formenter wants to keep putting the boot in, rather than respect a truce, then I'm going to throw some back.

Mixed metaphors, but you get the point I presume - it's pretty simple really.

I actually don't care.  I'm just killing time.  

[Captain Utopia]

Oh, I understand your position now! You're dumb.

And while I can probably agree that misogyny is a spectrum rather than a binary possibility, I fail to see what relevance that has on this argument.

Because if it is not a binary construct, then every single meme has an impact one way or the other.

And you claim to know which way this phrase will influence people on the grand scale?

Absolutely not. All I am claiming is that spreading a meme which encourages people to believe that they almost certainly (11/12) hate women on some level, seems entirely likely to do more damage than a meme which encourages people to believe that while this might be true for an older generation, that they have a personal choice.

Why is it inherently awesome? Is it inherently awesome if it results in a negligible statistical increase in domestic abuse?

Because it's inherently awesome to say stuff like that around people who take their shit too seriously.

Also, I've beaten 3 women since I first read that memebomb. I did it because all bitches deserve it; they said so themselves after being exposed to the memebomb.

When did hitting women, and promoting memes which make that more likely, become funny?

It became funny at the precise moment you decided to take this shit too seriously.

Also, I still disagree that this phrase makes misogyny and domestic abuse more likely. Your reasons for believing it will are poorly argued at best, and moronic at worst.

Well, if I argued the reasons more eloquently (I won't argue that I argue poorly), would that change anything in your mind?

[LMNO]

Do you really think humans are that passive, that they will take a sticker or a flyer or an internet or some anonymous comment that they are misogynistic and completely accept it at face value?

[Captain Utopia]

Wow, someone is feeling his oats, isn't he? 

Not really. I don't want a shit-flinging contest, because getting covered in shit isn't fun. No one wins.

But if formenter wants to keep putting the boot in, rather than respect a truce, then I'm going to throw some back.

Mixed metaphors, but you get the point I presume - it's pretty simple really.

I actually don't care.  I'm just killing time.  

The folks over at CoG said that I should register here because everyone here cares a lot more, but I haven't seen much evidence of this so far.

[LMNO]

We do care -- just not in the same way you do, nor about the same things.

[Cainad (dec.)]

I present the last 3 and a half pages of discussion as evidence that "most men secretly hate women, and most women secretly think they deserve it" is a successful memebomb.



Also, it's time to celebrate, PD.com: we've found someone who has an even lower opinion of humanity than most of us!

[Captain Utopia]

Do you really think humans are that passive, that they will take a sticker or a flyer or an internet or some anonymous comment that they are misogynistic and completely accept it at face value?

If they have no reason to disbelieve it (misogyny and masochism being on a spectrum, rather than a grid), and it gets absorbed with no reason to consider it with more depth.. then yes. Absolutely.

I'd say most of what we consider our free-will is dictated by this.

What you've just derided, is the basis for all advertising, after all.

[AFK]

Wow, someone is feeling his oats, isn't he? 

Not really. I don't want a shit-flinging contest, because getting covered in shit isn't fun. No one wins.

But if formenter wants to keep putting the boot in, rather than respect a truce, then I'm going to throw some back.

Mixed metaphors, but you get the point I presume - it's pretty simple really.

I actually don't care.  I'm just killing time.  

The folks over at CoG said that I should register here because everyone here cares a lot more, but I haven't seen much evidence of this so far.

Yes, and arguing about internet memes accomplishes quite a bit doesn't it?  By golly, if you work hard enough you might cure cancer AND establish universal health care.  

[Cramulus]

all ideas can change behavior

luckily, human beings are too resillient to be blindly led by statements like "DRINK COKE!" unless they already have a framework which supports that idea.

merely saying "RAPE WOMEN" is not dangerous, not any moreso than it was dangerous for John Swift to say "EAT BABIES". if people were really vulnerable to such statements, we'd be living in a world of totalitarian marketing. One guy with a megaphone could change the world. Until another guy with a megaphone came along.

I also believe that in the end, the human being is responsible for its own actions. If I create a really compelling argument to go kill your parents, and you do, it's still your fault. I might feel bad about it, but in the end, it was your choice. So we shouldn't get too hung up about the far reaching moral implications of certain statements unless you really think that language is mind control. And if you do, (cram wiggles his fingers, implying a magic spell) STOP THINKING THAT.  

[Captain Utopia]

all ideas can change behavior

luckily, human beings are too resillient to be blindly led by statements like "DRINK COKE!" unless they already have a framework which supports that idea.

merely saying "RAPE WOMEN" is not dangerous, not any moreso than it was dangerous for John Swift to say "EAT BABIES". if people were really vulnerable to such statements, we'd be living in a world of totalitarian marketing. One guy with a megaphone could change the world. Until another guy with a megaphone came along.

I also believe that in the end, the human being is responsible for its own actions. If I create a really compelling argument to go kill your parents, and you do, it's still your fault. I might feel bad about it, but in the end, it was your choice.

I agree. I'd also say that the resilience you describe is made up of symbiotic memes.

So we shouldn't get too hung up about the far reaching moral implications of certain statements unless you really think that language is mind control. And if you do, (cram wiggles his fingers, implying a magic spell) STOP THINKING THAT.  

Why should I not think like that? Everything I've seen points to that conclusion. I think it's mostly without intent - with the big exception of advertising. And the construction of other phrases to make people think in certain ways. Etc.

[Cainad (dec.)]

And you claim to know which way this phrase will influence people on the grand scale?

Absolutely not. All I am claiming is that spreading a meme which encourages people to believe that they almost certainly (11/12) hate women on some level, seems entirely likely to do more damage than a meme which encourages people to believe that while this might be true for an older generation, that they have a personal choice.

And I'm claiming that you're wrong. I think that most people exposed to the memebomb will react with "That's awful, and even if it is true, it doesn't apply to me." That would then subtly encourage them to be less misogynistic, in order to prove (if only to themselves) that the asshole who thinks most men hate women is wrong.

When did hitting women, and promoting memes which make that more likely, become funny?

It became funny at the precise moment you decided to take this shit too seriously.

Also, I still disagree that this phrase makes misogyny and domestic abuse more likely. Your reasons for believing it will are poorly argued at best, and moronic at worst.

Well, if I argued the reasons more eloquently (I won't argue that I argue poorly), would that change anything in your mind?

Probably not, on account of you being wrong. Taking a harshly cynical stance on how mind-bogglingly stupid and easily led people are does not make you right.

all ideas can change behavior

luckily, human beings are too resillient to be blindly led by statements like "DRINK COKE!" unless they already have a framework which supports that idea.

merely saying "RAPE WOMEN" is not dangerous, not any moreso than it was dangerous for John Swift to say "EAT BABIES". if people were really vulnerable to such statements, we'd be living in a world of totalitarian marketing. One guy with a megaphone could change the world. Until another guy with a megaphone came along.

I also believe that in the end, the human being is responsible for its own actions. If I create a really compelling argument to go kill your parents, and you do, it's still your fault. I might feel bad about it, but in the end, it was your choice. So we shouldn't get too hung up about the far reaching moral implications of certain statements unless you really think that language is mind control. And if you do, (cram wiggles his fingers, implying a magic spell) STOP THINKING THAT. 

[Captain Utopia]

Yes, and arguing about internet memes accomplishes quite a bit doesn't it?  By golly, if you work hard enough you might cure cancer AND establish universal health care.  

Maybe. Cynicism is nothing but self-fulfilling.

[AFK]

This thread has sooo moved me I've officially changed my username in solidarity.  I'm going to tie ribbons to my trees tonight.  What color should they be?  

[AFK]

Yes, and arguing about internet memes accomplishes quite a bit doesn't it?  By golly, if you work hard enough you might cure cancer AND establish universal health care.  

Maybe. Cynicism is nothing but self-fulfilling.

Yes, but I self-fulfill in style!   

[Cainad (dec.)]

So we shouldn't get too hung up about the far reaching moral implications of certain statements unless you really think that language is mind control. And if you do, (cram wiggles his fingers, implying a magic spell) STOP THINKING THAT.  

Why should I not think like that? Everything I've seen points to that conclusion. I think it's mostly without intent - with the big exception of advertising. And the construction of other phrases to make people think in certain ways. Etc.

Wait, so saying something and exposing you to an idea will make you significantly more likely to do what the idea suggests, even if you find it offensive or already disagree with it? Cool!


Hey fictionpuss:

You are wrong, admit that I'm right.
You are wrong, admit that I'm right.
You are wrong, admit that I'm right.
You are wrong, admit that I'm right.
You are wrong, admit that I'm right.
You are wrong, admit that I'm right.



Is it working yet? Based on your understanding of human nature, I should already be halfway towards convincing the whole world that I'm an expert in every subject ever.