Daily reminder: not beating your partner is "controversial"

[Roaring Biscuit!]

I think it is a good memebomb.  it is not something that is likely to be internalized because it bounces off other "memes"... fuck it.  it bounces off other ideas and social constructs already planted within us.  The majority of people read that statement and the "sexuality inequality is wrong!" idea fires up (call it a meme if you must), so they have an adverse reaction to the memebomb and this influences the way they act, because now they have two associated ideas about sexual inequality.  The first is "sexual inequality is bad!" the second is "women deserve it - wait I don't want to be like that fucko..."

Why the hesitation to call a "meme" a "meme"? If we were talking genetics, would you say "in humans the unit of replication is the gen... the aspects of DN... squiggly spirally stuff which..". It seems absurd to attack every use rather than every misuse.

You miss the part about internalising the belief that those statistics say something about the rest of society. Eater Of Clowns was arguing yesterday that conformity defines reality - right here. Am I wrong to bring that sociological aspect into this? We disagreed on the mechanism, but agreed upon the effect.

It's basically reverse psychology, but fictionpuss seems to be interpreting memebomb here as an actual ideal, rather than what it is, which is a statement design to provoke a response, which then may lead to an ideal being reinforced, whether it agrees or disagrees with the original statement is dependent on the individual.

I think that when you have something which may or may not increase actual instances of domestic abuse, then you do have a responsibility to think it through -

I was hesitating to call a meme a meme, firstly because people are getting sick of it, and I'm a crowd pleaser, secondly because it seems it is confusing the situation.  There is a difference, between promoting the meme that 11/12 men hate women, as in the actual idea, and promoting the train of thought that might lead from reading the memebomb on a sticker.

On another note, if you have an issue, rather than doing what we are doing, which is arguing ourselves round in circles, because you think it will have a negative effect, and I don't, why don't we work towards a memebomb that accomplishes the same thing but with a lessened risk?


ok, what if we up the ridiculous:

"110% of men hate women. 2/3 women inwardly agree.  even the ones that aren't born yet."

now we have a memebomb that clearly isn't true, but might still generate the same "am I sexist douchebag" train of thought.

I'm not comfortable just washing my hands and saying "it's all just a sociological experiment".

past experience says otherwise  

I'm sorta ignoring the conformist reality thing for now because i can't be bothered to read it just yet.  I imagine it goes: our ideas about reality are based largely on our cultures ideas about reality, so our vision of reality conforms to other peoples, and what we believe about them.  So your saying that if enough people read and believe that it becomes true?

also:

Advertising works. It uses similar techniques to burrow ideas into peoples minds. Why is it irrelevant?

it doesn't work even nearly as well as you apparently think.  you probably think sex sells as well don't you?

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Is it just me, or is (iirc) Nigel's variant something that circumvents Fictionpuss' arguments?

If I remember correctly (I cba to go back and find it) it was something like:

You think you deserve it, don't you? Stupid bitch.

[Captain Utopia]

Is it just me, or is (iirc) Nigel's variant something that circumvents Fictionpuss' arguments?

If I remember correctly (I cba to go back and find it) it was something like:

You think you deserve it, don't you? Stupid bitch.

Here? - "You secretly think you deserve it"

For me, it still has no out - by portraying it as a secret it becomes a belief which can live on as a low-level paranoia. Regardless of whether the individual reacts to it with initial disbelief or not - it would have most effect if it resurfaced when the individual was in a period of low self-esteem, such as in an abusive situation.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

The 'out' is that it cause people to consider it. Our goal isn't to program people for or against misogyny, but to get people to think about their actions*.


* Personally, I don't like misogyny, but there are enough things that have been held as terribly disgusting at one time and then necessary later that I am unwilling to try to impose my personal distaste for things in general on others. Therefore, my goal here, and probably the goal of most people with memebombs, is to make people reconsider things, *not* to program them with personal pet beliefs.

[Triple Zero]

"END THOUGHT CRIME; STOP THINKING"

is unlikely to stop people from thinking.

IM SORRY WHAT DID YOU SAY

I CANT READ

I STOPPED THINKING

[Captain Utopia]

The 'out' is that it cause people to consider it. Our goal isn't to program people for or against misogyny, but to get people to think about their actions*.


* Personally, I don't like misogyny, but there are enough things that have been held as terribly disgusting at one time and then necessary later that I am unwilling to try to impose my personal distaste for things in general on others.

FUCK misogyny. Fuck anything which, at best, has an unpredictable outcome with regards increasing or decreasing it.

Therefore, my goal here, and probably the goal of most people with memebombs, is to make people reconsider things, *not* to program them with personal pet beliefs.

I totally support the idea of memebombs. I think it's an awesome concept. As it stands though, I'd score the potential memebomb 8 for impact, and 3 for neutrality.

EDIT - that was dumb - everything has a potentially unpredictable outcome on anything else. I meant unpredictable in that there are arguments for and against whether that outcome will be positive or negative.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I've said it before, and I'll say it now: this is all symptoms of a deep seated mysognyny. Antifeminism, homophobia, many many of the aspects of fundamentalist politics, and certainly unequality between the sexes. The western world practically seeths with it.

[meme]11/12ths of men are women haters and 2/3rds of women subconsciously think they deserve it [/meme]

I don't disagree with you. One thing I don't like about that meme though is that it doesn't provide an out, and seems more likely to trap people into that mindset. Maybe add in a bit about in the study, for the age-group forty and above, 11/12ths of men are... ?

Older people with established life patterns and attitudes are less likely to be swayed, plus it gives younger people a target to avoid and to be pissed off about. It's hard to go wrong exploiting generational divide.

STFU NOOB.

11/12 PDers know you deserved it.

[Kai]

OMG

...


Okay, I said that statement because I thought it was a horrible little piece of horror mirth self referencing our own humor here and hitting close to the truth in some ways while being completely outrageous in others. I put [meme] around it because I figured some people (fictionpuss, I'm looking at you. stop it) would take it way too seriously instead of laughing in ways that only sound like screaming, which was the real intent. Or for it to just fall flat on its face. Or to piss off fred because she hates the word "meme".

With this, and the thread in T&S, I'm starting to feel like an unintentional troll.   

[Template]

The 'out' is that it cause people to consider it. Our goal isn't to program people for or against misogyny, but to get people to think about their actions*.


* Personally, I don't like misogyny, but there are enough things that have been held as terribly disgusting at one time and then necessary later that I am unwilling to try to impose my personal distaste for things in general on others.

FUCK misogyny. Fuck anything which, at best, has an unpredictable outcome with regards increasing or decreasing it.

Therefore, my goal here, and probably the goal of most people with memebombs, is to make people reconsider things, *not* to program them with personal pet beliefs.

I totally support the idea of memebombs. I think it's an awesome concept. As it stands though, I'd score the potential memebomb 8 for impact, and 3 for neutrality.

EDIT - that was dumb - everything has a potentially unpredictable outcome on anything else. I meant unpredictable in that there are arguments for and against whether that outcome will be positive or negative.

So, fuck risk?

[Captain Utopia]

The 'out' is that it cause people to consider it. Our goal isn't to program people for or against misogyny, but to get people to think about their actions*.


* Personally, I don't like misogyny, but there are enough things that have been held as terribly disgusting at one time and then necessary later that I am unwilling to try to impose my personal distaste for things in general on others.

FUCK misogyny. Fuck anything which, at best, has an unpredictable outcome with regards increasing or decreasing it.

Therefore, my goal here, and probably the goal of most people with memebombs, is to make people reconsider things, *not* to program them with personal pet beliefs.

I totally support the idea of memebombs. I think it's an awesome concept. As it stands though, I'd score the potential memebomb 8 for impact, and 3 for neutrality.

EDIT - that was dumb - everything has a potentially unpredictable outcome on anything else. I meant unpredictable in that there are arguments for and against whether that outcome will be positive or negative.

So, fuck risk?

By your interpretation of my argument, we shouldn't even connect to the internet, lest a stray post about stamp collecting ends up completely melting the polar ice caps - an entirely unpredictable outcome.

But if I have a memebomb, and a reasonable suspicion that it may do more harm than good - in this case be an enabler for more misogynistic thought - then would I throw it anyway for lulz? Fuck no. Would I encourage anyone else to reconsider? Fuck yeah.

So it's not "fuck risk", it's "fuck risk when the payoff is low, and the risk is too high that someone will get hurt"

[Template]

But if I have a memebomb, and a reasonable suspicion that it may do more harm than good

I have the impression that many of us here have a different idea of what a reasonable suspicion is, as regards the matter at hand.

[Captain Utopia]

But if I have a memebomb, and a reasonable suspicion that it may do more harm than good

I have the impression that many of us here have a different idea of what a reasonable suspicion is, as regards the matter at hand.

Most likely.

I thought for a while there was a danger that this might be turned into an active memebomb, but without that risk, my interest in arguing this quickly vanishes.

[Rumckle]

So, fuck risk?

Yeah, and fuck monopoly and scrabble, too

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I thought for a while there was a danger that this might be turned into an active memebomb, but without that risk, my interest in arguing this quickly vanishes.

http://principiadiscordia.com/memebombs/?action=show&id=4010

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

This thread is making me want to beat my wife, hate women, kill my parents, tie black and blue ribbons around trees, stop thinking and just mindlessly agree with everything I read.

oh...


oh holy shit...

I'm turning into........

A REPUBLICAN

~runs~