Intelligent Design students who get 20% of their grades from trolling..

[Epimetheus]

I do memes right, yuo guys do memes rong.

[the last yatto]

meme war,     

[Triple Zero]

I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.

Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.

Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.

you could also, you know, instead of continuously trying, failing and getting on everybody's nerves, limit yourself to using words you do understand.

i bet it's in that book somewhere, advice like "don't use words you don't fully understand the meaning of"

[Cain]

meme war,     

I have a copy of that.

[Kai]

I don't even meme what meme I meme meme. Meme meme meme. Oh meme.

[LMNO]

I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.

Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.

Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.

you could also, you know, instead of continuously trying, failing and getting on everybody's nerves, limit yourself to using words you do understand.

i bet it's in that book somewhere, advice like "don't use words you don't fully understand the meaning of"

It makes me giggle that you ended your sentence with a preposition.


I'm a dork.

[NWC]

So how does everyone feel about brainwashing? I think that Christians are brainwashing us with their brainwashing techniques, and we're too brainwashed to realize it.

And you guys should all stop trying to brainwash eachother with your opinions

brainwashers

[Kai]

So how does everyone feel about brainwashing? I think that Christians are brainwashing us with their brainwashing techniques, and we're too brainwashed to realize it.

And you guys should all stop trying to brainwash eachother with your opinions

brainwashers

brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme brainwashing = meme

[NWC]

I feel like brainwashing is very similar to memes, all of the sudden. Maybe it's because Scientology brainwashed the brainwashing=meme meme into my washed brain.

[Triple Zero]

I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.

Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.

Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.

you could also, you know, instead of continuously trying, failing and getting on everybody's nerves, limit yourself to using words you do understand.

i bet it's in that book somewhere, advice like "don't use words you don't fully understand the meaning of"

It makes me giggle that you ended your sentence with a preposition.


I'm a dork.

The funny thing is that I usually notice what I end a sentence with,
but for some reason, after I made it, see that it is wrong, it's stuck that
way and takes a lot of mental effort to shuffle it around so it turns right.

Same thing in the reverse, when I try to do it on purpose btw.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Actually, Kai said:

"No difference between micro and macro evolution."


You responded,

"Might there be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?"


Your response is exactly the opposite of what Kai was saying.

No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.

No, I'm objecting to your use of the word "meme' in such a muddled constant way that all significant meaning of the word is lost. You use it in such a vague manner and everywhere that it just becomes like saying fwatwoaewewajiioewoa'e. It ends up meaning nothing at all.

And your last statement shows just how little you actually know what you're talking about. You're confusing words with terms, and terms with words and being all around confusing in general. There is a term that the word "meme" can stand for, a rather significant and useful term within a limited context. However, the way you use the word "meme" muddles it until the word doesn't represent the term anymore. Your usage renders the word meaningless and annoying. As I said, it's as if I would use the word gene everywhere. Or as when I say a word over and over and over it begins to sound like gibberish.

Lets get this straight. I don't particularly like the word evolution, but since it's come to be associated with a term I discuss frequently, I use the word for communication's sake. I also use it in a very specific and well defined manner, and I make sure to define it when I use it, or that it is at least clear by the context what I'm talking about. I don't use it everywhere for various things. For example, I don't say "my learning ability evolved over time" in close proximity to talking about "evolution via natural selection". That way my terms aren't muddled. Do you fucking understand what I'm fucking saying to you? I want you to stop using the word "meme" until you can use it properly, until you can well define your context AND connotation. Because connotation is as important to meaning as the standard definition is, as context is. (anyone who tells you differently is a moron.) Right now you're using the word to mean various things and it's ANNOYING AS HELL. And it's very poor communication.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

They're finally getting it? Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.

Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.

Bring it on, I say.

Trying to take Kai's advice on board, I'll rewrite that initial post.

The trolling described in the article, which the students are required to perform, sounds like a simple task of arguing using talking points already discussed in their class. This is a primitive form of trolling, as even if those "talking points" have been designed with great care, that is no substitute for the students themselves being able to dissemble and reassemble them with an intuitive understanding of the argument. Much like the soldiers who practice working with their weapons until they understand each component.

But this is not a stable environment, and it seems inevitable to me that over time student trolls will be taught increasingly sophisticated techniques. For example, nineteen years ago it was still a successful technique to compare an opponents position to Hitler, and walk away unharmed. But the more we communicate, the more we refine our techniques. And if you click that link, you will see evidence of those techniques refining themselves.

Escalation is inevitable.

If, as Dawkins wrote, ideas evolve and mutate over time.. then gaining an intuitive understanding of how to use ideas effectively in this environment, would seem to me to be equivalent to gaining an intuitive understanding of at least one aspect of how evolution operates.

Which is a deliciously ironic position for these Intelligent Design trolls to put themselves in. Even more so if they convince themselves that it doesn't apply.

Does that really convey any more significant information than the original?

Where did you get the ideas that change = refinement or that evolution = escalation?

[Kai]

They're finally getting it? Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.

Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.

Bring it on, I say.

Trying to take Kai's advice on board, I'll rewrite that initial post.

The trolling described in the article, which the students are required to perform, sounds like a simple task of arguing using talking points already discussed in their class. This is a primitive form of trolling, as even if those "talking points" have been designed with great care, that is no substitute for the students themselves being able to dissemble and reassemble them with an intuitive understanding of the argument. Much like the soldiers who practice working with their weapons until they understand each component.

But this is not a stable environment, and it seems inevitable to me that over time student trolls will be taught increasingly sophisticated techniques. For example, nineteen years ago it was still a successful technique to compare an opponents position to Hitler, and walk away unharmed. But the more we communicate, the more we refine our techniques. And if you click that link, you will see evidence of those techniques refining themselves.

Escalation is inevitable.

If, as Dawkins wrote, ideas evolve and mutate over time.. then gaining an intuitive understanding of how to use ideas effectively in this environment, would seem to me to be equivalent to gaining an intuitive understanding of at least one aspect of how evolution operates.

Which is a deliciously ironic position for these Intelligent Design trolls to put themselves in. Even more so if they convince themselves that it doesn't apply.

Does that really convey any more significant information than the original?

Where did you get the ideas that change = refinement or that evolution = escalation?

Technically, the word "evolution" comes from the greek for "unrolling" and has a connotation of escalation. This is also the reason I don't LIKE using evolution. However, when I do use it I make sure to define it well, as I have, so FP has no ground to stand on in regards to that.

[the last yatto]

having your brain washed really isnt that bad as long as they give it back to you

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

mine is probably full of all sorts of crud.