Pharm parties-Rx abuse

[AFK]

Aw fuckit I'll give in to impulse.

This argument has now gotten retarded.

The pro-drugs crowd has realized that on the subject of Rx abuse, it is an incredibly stupid thing for kids to do*, and they can't really argue otherwise.

So, to save face, they start picking apart descriptions of how some kids swap and take Rx.

That is retarded.  RWHN, I'd suggest you ignore the rest of this thread until they come up with something substantial.

Uh, no.

This entire thread started because of the skittles/pharm party comment. It has rattled on for five pages because RWHN asserts that there is no difference between mixing up drugs in a bowl then taking them randomly, and kids sharing known drugs between themselves. Each case is undesirable, but they do not pose equal risk.

They both pose the risk of overdose and death. There's a reason Rx drugs are Rx drugs and not OTC.  It's to protect people who should not be taking them, especially children. 

The only point is that they do not pose an equal risk of overdose and death.

Shades of grey.  Something, that even if true, is not something kids can sift through and decipher.  Again, remember there is a HUGE difference, usually, between the reasoning and comprehension abilities of a 15 year old brain compared to a 35 year old brain.   So if you really want to argue with me that 5.5 is less than 5.6.  Knock yourself out.  But when it comes to me dealing with real kids and the real world, that isn't a margin of error that does me, or the kids, any damned good. 

Your sloppy use of language "pop them like they are skittles", which most people who responded seemed to take one particular way, is now a group-conspiratorial game of semantics?

I didn't say anything about it being conspiratorial. 

[Captain Utopia]

Aw fuckit I'll give in to impulse.

This argument has now gotten retarded.

The pro-drugs crowd has realized that on the subject of Rx abuse, it is an incredibly stupid thing for kids to do*, and they can't really argue otherwise.

So, to save face, they start picking apart descriptions of how some kids swap and take Rx.

That is retarded.  RWHN, I'd suggest you ignore the rest of this thread until they come up with something substantial.

Uh, no.

This entire thread started because of the skittles/pharm party comment. It has rattled on for five pages because RWHN asserts that there is no difference between mixing up drugs in a bowl then taking them randomly, and kids sharing known drugs between themselves. Each case is undesirable, but they do not pose equal risk.

They both pose the risk of overdose and death. There's a reason Rx drugs are Rx drugs and not OTC.  It's to protect people who should not be taking them, especially children. 

The only point is that they do not pose an equal risk of overdose and death.

Shades of grey.  Something, that even if true, is not something kids can sift through and decipher.  Again, remember there is a HUGE difference, usually, between the reasoning and comprehension abilities of a 15 year old brain compared to a 35 year old brain.   So if you really want to argue with me that 5.5 is less than 5.6.  Knock yourself out.  But when it comes to me dealing with real kids and the real world, that isn't a margin of error that does me, or the kids, any damned good.

I'm going to take this as agreement that they do not pose equal risk.

But let's not conflate this with what message we should be giving to the kids. Not least because the bulk of what I know about the changes in brain development over age is contained by the extent of your summary above. Although I still do not understand why it is so abhorrent to tell a kid that while taking any one type of Rx is stupid and dangerous, that the risk increases non-linearly when mixing different Rx.

I do think that myself and my friends were able to make such distinctions at that age.

[AFK]

Because, again, what you end up do is validating one kind of use.  When you start talking about degrees of danger, about an activity that on balance is danger through and through, in the mind of a young person, you are offering validation.  "Well, at least what I'm doing isn't THAT dangerous."  It would be like telling a 17 year old kid, with his license, "Well if you only drink one beer, you will be better able to operate a car versus if you drank 6 beers."  While technically it is true, is that a message we really want to convey?  No, it is not. 

[LMNO]

"So, if I bring a six pack to a party, and only have five beers, it's safer for me to drive home than if I had all six...  Where are my keys?"
   \

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This argument has now gotten retarded.

The pro-drugs crowd has realized that on the subject of Rx abuse, it is an incredibly stupid thing for kids to do*, and they can't really argue otherwise.

So, to save face, they start picking apart descriptions of how some kids swap and take Rx.

That is retarded.  RWHN, I'd suggest you ignore the rest of this thread until they come up with something substantial.

Um. No. I am not pro-drugs, at least not for children. I am not pro-drugs for adults either, I'm simply not against marijuana and I have tried a few things myself. That is different from being pro-drugs, and I'd rather you not paste on me an agenda to mask my actual motive.

At least in my case, I was simply doubting the overblown "epidemic" that children are mixing random drugs in bowls and taking a whole bunch at random without knowing what anything was. It is an implausible image, and rang to me about as true as the old reefer madness propaganda.

IMO, using imagery or claims that patently defy credulity does harm to the credibility of the entire anti-drug effort. It makes people doubt the professionals when they use sensationalistic claims. If a parent believes that this behavior is epidemic and goes to their 14-year-old with something ridiculous like that, the 14-year-old is likely to laugh at their parent and say "no, I'd never do that, I've never heard of anyone doing that, that's totally retarded", whereas if a parent confronts their 14-year-old with something realistic like "I've heard that some kids are trading prescription medications, that's dangerous, let me tell you why and I hope you'll avoid anything like that" they might actually be able to have a dialogue. I also think it's important for parents to be able to recognize the difference between "Hey, can I try one of your Ritalin?" and swallowing a bunch of unknowns. Kids do know the difference, and if parents come off as stupid or ill-informed, their kids won't respect what they have to say.

Especially as a parent, whenever I see overblown sensationalistic hyperbole about drugs, it makes me angry because my children are not stupid, and they recognize it as fucking tabloidesque bullshit, and then I have to explain to them that while yes, that particular piece of propaganda is full of exaggeration or outright lies, there is a kernel of truth, or otherwise valid reasons to not use drugs. They know that a lot of people use marijuana without any particular ill effects, for instance, so I have had to explain to them that some people can use it and be just fine, but some people use it all the time and it makes them lazy and useless, or thoughtless of others, and that marijuana is unlike many other drugs which can have deadly or devastating effects. Growing up the way I did in the era I did, I knew a lot of kids who smoked marijuana, realized very quickly that the anti-drug propaganda of the time was full of lies and exaggerations, and then went right ahead and tried heroin or cocaine because they assumed they'd been lied to about that, too. Consequently, an awful lot of people I knew when I was young are dead, have AIDS, or are permanently damaged ex-junkies. Oops. WTG, Nancy Reagan, you stupid bitch. Thanks for inventing that gateway.

Hyperbole about drugs helps no one. Especially not kids. Kids need parents to know the difference between marijuana and meth, and between trying someone's mom's Xanax and eating random, unknown pills at a party. Kids need to be able to trust their parents to trust them, and to be able to talk to their parents if they get in a situation they need to be rescued from.

[Captain Utopia]

Because, again, what you end up do is validating one kind of use.  When you start talking about degrees of danger, about an activity that on balance is danger through and through, in the mind of a young person, you are offering validation.  "Well, at least what I'm doing isn't THAT dangerous."  It would be like telling a 17 year old kid, with his license, "Well if you only drink one beer, you will be better able to operate a car versus if you drank 6 beers."  While technically it is true, is that a message we really want to convey?  No, it is not.  

So Lysergic was right then? If, as an authority figure, you are completely unable to give kids the truth - mixing Rx randomly is much more dangerous than just taking one type of Rx, even though either option can kill you - wouldn't you'd be better off pointing them to wikipedia and erowid and let them read the horror trip stories there?

[AFK]

No, I'm better off telling kids that taking (unprescribed obviously) Rx drugs can kill you or make you seriously ill, period.  You seem unable to wrap your head around the validation idea.  What part of that do you not understand?  

[Jenne]

I am part of the Safety and Wellness Coalition in my local school district, through my work in the PTA.  And yes, this is the latest trend, like X was at raves back in my day--the Pharm Parties, where you take whatever's in your friend's, neighbor's, mom's, dad's, gramma's, step-mom's, baby sister's Rx bottles and dumpt them in a bowl.  Pass bowl, everyone gets what they want.  And they call them "skittles."  Because it's like a candy bowl.

And there have been many cases of kids od'ing and dying on the spot because 1) no one could gather the wits or balls to call 911 and 2) no one knew wtf s/he took to tell the doc how to reverse its effects.

Yes, this is real.  Yes, this is statistically provable and the antidrug NGO's are spreading this far and wide so that parents lock up their Rx's like they do the liquor cabinet.  They say to not even leave Rx drugs out and accessible during houseparties and OPEN HOUSES because the kids get them from there as well.

Hyperbole is useful, unfortunately, because most kids, I've found, think you're so dumb you're stupid.  And the hyperbole does, unfortunately, have some effect in scaring them straight.  Just like the hyperbole sometimes, unfortunately, scares the parents into giving a shit what their dipfuck kid is doing out on a Friday, Saturday etc. night or the odd Tuesday, Wednesday afternoon.

[Bruno]

I had forgotten how stupid kids and young adults could be until I went back to college. One time, I was sitting on the smokers porch, and some girl was talking about finding some random pills in a plastic bag at some type of music festival, and taking them.

They had no noticeable effect, but who knows what the fuck she took. She certainly didn't.

[Requia ☣]

No, I'm better off telling kids that taking (unprescribed obviously) Rx drugs can kill you or make you seriously ill, period.  You seem unable to wrap your head around the validation idea.  What part of that do you not understand?  

I don't think anybody is talking about what *you* say.  This is about what somebody else said.

[Requia ☣]

Also the reasoning and comprehension of 15 year olds is fine.  Its the impulse control/decision making that sucks.  Which must make your job a bitch since that basically means kids will understand perfectly that something is incredibly dangerous then do it anyway.

[BabylonHoruv]

This argument has now gotten retarded.

The pro-drugs crowd has realized that on the subject of Rx abuse, it is an incredibly stupid thing for kids to do*, and they can't really argue otherwise.

So, to save face, they start picking apart descriptions of how some kids swap and take Rx.

That is retarded.  RWHN, I'd suggest you ignore the rest of this thread until they come up with something substantial.

Uh, no.

This entire thread started because of the skittles/pharm party comment. It has rattled on for five pages because RWHN asserts that there is no difference between mixing up drugs in a bowl then taking them randomly, and kids sharing known drugs between themselves. Each case is undesirable, but they do not pose equal risk.

RWHN seems to agree to some extent, but is reluctant to actually state it, presumably in case some kid reads through this whole discussion and decides that they should suddenly start raiding some medicine cabinets. I conclude this only because when pressed on the risk issue above, RWHN started putting it in the context of what message should he be telling kids in schools.

There is no "pro-drugs crowd" who have argued at any point that kids abusing Rx is anything other than incredibly stupid. But nice straw-man. As such there is no "saving face" - pretty much everyone has been trying to find areas of agreement with RWHN and figure out where the disagreements stem from, which has been a one-sided effort it seems. It's either "submit to my authority, or you don't know what the fuck you're talking about."

Actually there is.  That'd be me.

I really don't think that reading through all the available documentation and then making an informed decision to take more than the prescribed dosage is incredibly stupid.  You want to make sure you know what dosage is likely to be lethal at your body mass, and you don't want to do something incredibly stupid like mixing it with alcohol, but I did this when I was a teen, I don't regret it, I wouldn't do it again because the lesson I learned from it was I didn't particularly enjoy any of the pills that were available to me, but I don't feel stupid about it at all

[Suu]

I'm pretty against the abuse of scrip drugs. I've been given Oxycontin, oxycodone (Vicodin), and hydrocodone (Percoset) before legitimately for injuries and post-op from my ankles, how kids can use these and not turn into vegetables like I did on Oxycontin at the same age is beyond me. I don't find sitting in a puddle of my own drool a fun way to spend a Friday night.

When I would mention that my brother is on Ritalin and Concerta, I can't mention how many people would push money in my face. He needed that medication to stay still in school (severe ADHD to this day). When I would tell them no, I'd get called a loser and a dork left and right, but I didn't care. I knew and understood the power of these medications and wouldn't be responsible for a bunch of stupid teenagers abusing them.

Another big argument of mine is forced-use of ADHD medications on children who don't need them by parents incapable of doing their job properly, but I'll save that rant for another day.

[Kai]

I am part of the Safety and Wellness Coalition in my local school district, through my work in the PTA.  And yes, this is the latest trend, like X was at raves back in my day--the Pharm Parties, where you take whatever's in your friend's, neighbor's, mom's, dad's, gramma's, step-mom's, baby sister's Rx bottles and dumpt them in a bowl.  Pass bowl, everyone gets what they want.  And they call them "skittles."  Because it's like a candy bowl.

And there have been many cases of kids od'ing and dying on the spot because 1) no one could gather the wits or balls to call 911 and 2) no one knew wtf s/he took to tell the doc how to reverse its effects.

Yes, this is real.  Yes, this is statistically provable and the antidrug NGO's are spreading this far and wide so that parents lock up their Rx's like they do the liquor cabinet.  They say to not even leave Rx drugs out and accessible during houseparties and OPEN HOUSES because the kids get them from there as well.

Hyperbole is useful, unfortunately, because most kids, I've found, think you're so dumb you're stupid.  And the hyperbole does, unfortunately, have some effect in scaring them straight.  Just like the hyperbole sometimes, unfortunately, scares the parents into giving a shit what their dipfuck kid is doing out on a Friday, Saturday etc. night or the odd Tuesday, Wednesday afternoon.

I wasn't ready to accept that this was happening based on only one person's observation but with Jenne's above corroboration I think this thread is over.

[AFK]

I am part of the Safety and Wellness Coalition in my local school district, through my work in the PTA.  And yes, this is the latest trend, like X was at raves back in my day--the Pharm Parties, where you take whatever's in your friend's, neighbor's, mom's, dad's, gramma's, step-mom's, baby sister's Rx bottles and dumpt them in a bowl.  Pass bowl, everyone gets what they want.  And they call them "skittles."  Because it's like a candy bowl.

And there have been many cases of kids od'ing and dying on the spot because 1) no one could gather the wits or balls to call 911 and 2) no one knew wtf s/he took to tell the doc how to reverse its effects.

Yes, this is real.  Yes, this is statistically provable and the antidrug NGO's are spreading this far and wide so that parents lock up their Rx's like they do the liquor cabinet.  They say to not even leave Rx drugs out and accessible during houseparties and OPEN HOUSES because the kids get them from there as well.

Hyperbole is useful, unfortunately, because most kids, I've found, think you're so dumb you're stupid.  And the hyperbole does, unfortunately, have some effect in scaring them straight.  Just like the hyperbole sometimes, unfortunately, scares the parents into giving a shit what their dipfuck kid is doing out on a Friday, Saturday etc. night or the odd Tuesday, Wednesday afternoon.

I did a focus group with some female inmates in one of the county prisons.  There was this one young woman who told me about her scam to gather various Rx drugs.  She was in her early 20s, and if you took swapped the orange jumpsuit for regular clothes, she looked like a bookworm.  Not your "typical" druggie.  Anyway what she would do is go to little old ladies houses, knock on the door, and pretend like she was travelling and had to go to the bathroom really bad.  Looking very unsuspecting, the little old ladies would let her in.  She would go to the bathroom, and steal a few of the meds that were in the medecine cabinet.  She would only need to hit a few houses and she'd be set for awhile, and have enough to sell to make money for her future scores.