So, the economist and time agree: It's about fucking time to LEGALISE IT

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Also, it seems that the basic bone of contention between RWHN and myself and/or Rat is that RWHN seems to be taking the position that the need to keep adolescents from fucking up their development with recreational drug use trumps the need of adults to be able to make their own choices and not be persecuted/prosecuted for them until they have a direct negative impact on the lives of others whereas rat and I seem to be taking the position that while adolescent drug use is unfortunate and should be actively discouraged by any reasonable means, it's not a justification for blanket prohibition that criminalizes the recreational behavior of adults.

That sums it up from my side.

[Z³]

I think we should converge the Intoxicated driving debate from Suu's Server thread, into this one.
Also, I find this debate to be interesting, and feel that its necessary that the issue be discussed and debated.
I'd like to see marijuana legalized, or at least decriminalized, during my lifetime... this necessitates discussion.

[BabylonHoruv]

...the governments of most countries will never legalise it as they cannot tax it.

wtf are you talking about? legalization = taxation... because of regulation.

It would not only be a source of income for the government, but also would get rid of the drug cartels.

i wish someone knew how much moeny drug cartels make per year compared to, lets say, Wal Mart or Microsoft. Sometimes i think that the "war on drugs" is kind of the "republican vs. democrat" 2 man con sort of thing.

That shit grows everywhere. Or rather, it can. And while they might be able to track and find the source of high-quality strains, there would be so much backyard, ditch and amatuer bathtub/closet shit they won't have time to comb through those who have a script/licenses vs those who don't. And they don't like that. Plus, the govt. already gets money from the well-targeted busts they do, not to mention the stabilization that large piece of the black market does for our economy. It's literally money you can grow that just pumps into the economy.

Alcohol is way easier to make than weed, and people still buy their beer at the store.

[Salty]

...the governments of most countries will never legalise it as they cannot tax it.

wtf are you talking about? legalization = taxation... because of regulation.

It would not only be a source of income for the government, but also would get rid of the drug cartels.

i wish someone knew how much moeny drug cartels make per year compared to, lets say, Wal Mart or Microsoft. Sometimes i think that the "war on drugs" is kind of the "republican vs. democrat" 2 man con sort of thing.

That shit grows everywhere. Or rather, it can. And while they might be able to track and find the source of high-quality strains, there would be so much backyard, ditch and amatuer bathtub/closet shit they won't have time to comb through those who have a script/licenses vs those who don't. And they don't like that. Plus, the govt. already gets money from the well-targeted busts they do, not to mention the stabilization that large piece of the black market does for our economy. It's literally money you can grow that just pumps into the economy.

Alcohol is way easier to make than weed, and people still buy their beer at the store.

Oh yeah? I wouldn't really know since I've never brewed/distilled my own booze nor grown pot. But, I'm sure you speak from experience and will take your word for it.

Curiosity compels me: If you throw a beer bottle into a ditch, how long does it take to sprout a 12-pack?

[BabylonHoruv]

First of all, people try all kinds of tricks with weed to make it seem better than it is, second of all, I'm not sorely misinformed, I agree that its should be legalized. I just love how you jump to conclusions all of a sudden making me out to be the bad guy when I merely state my opinion to you. Thanks for showing me your the idiot.

other than adding water to make it weigh more (old trick easy to spot), i have never heard of anything being added to pot, ...its a plant.. either it came from good seed and was grown right or it wasn't there is nothing you can do to change it or make it worth enough more to make fucking with it worth the time..  i call BS

Actually, since a lot of pot is grown using hydroponics, it wouldn't be too difficult to add extra chemicals to the marijuana by simply introducing it to the water.  The capillary action will draw the stuff right up.  Some already use this to color their product by adding food coloring.  It may not be very common, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities. 

They do this with flavoring agents too.

[BabylonHoruv]

you can always count on an actual scientist to cut through large amounts of conjecture and emotionally-charged bullshit.

thanks Kai!

I make a couple of comments, fully disclose that it is speculation (in other words I'm not 100% sure) and it gets blown up into "large amounts of conjecture and emotionally-charged bullshit."

You know, I've been mulling over for the past few weeks whether or not I still fit in at pd.com.  This is giving me more pause for thought.  For the however many years I've been here, I've been a pretty straight arrow I think.  I've not tended to exaggerate what people have posted or contributed, and I think I've deserved the same kind of treatment in return. 

Perhaps it is time for me to move along.  Perhaps I don't fit with this community any more.   

for reals?

I came to PD because of my conversations with you, I was startled to find an Discordian in favor of prohibition, bu you argue well for it.  Of course people are going to come at your arguements with their assumptions in place from arguements with others who are less well informed than you or less reasonable.  And, this being the place it is, things are going to get blown up into a giant troll fest now and then.

I know that what I have seen you contribute to PD has been of value and I know you are a respected member of the community here.  if you leave I know that the board will be poorer for it.

I'll disagree with you all the way about legalization, but that doesn't mean i haven't very much enjoyed our debates on the subject, and it also doesn't mean you haven't made me think in ways I had not thoguh before and made me revealuate some of my assumptions.

[BabylonHoruv]

...the governments of most countries will never legalise it as they cannot tax it.

wtf are you talking about? legalization = taxation... because of regulation.

It would not only be a source of income for the government, but also would get rid of the drug cartels.

i wish someone knew how much moeny drug cartels make per year compared to, lets say, Wal Mart or Microsoft. Sometimes i think that the "war on drugs" is kind of the "republican vs. democrat" 2 man con sort of thing.

That shit grows everywhere. Or rather, it can. And while they might be able to track and find the source of high-quality strains, there would be so much backyard, ditch and amatuer bathtub/closet shit they won't have time to comb through those who have a script/licenses vs those who don't. And they don't like that. Plus, the govt. already gets money from the well-targeted busts they do, not to mention the stabilization that large piece of the black market does for our economy. It's literally money you can grow that just pumps into the economy.

Alcohol is way easier to make than weed, and people still buy their beer at the store.

Oh yeah? I wouldn't really know since I've never brewed/distilled my own booze nor grown pot. But, I'm sure you speak from experience and will take your word for it.

Curiosity compels me: If you throw a beer bottle into a ditch, how long does it take to sprout a 12-pack?

I have done both, although only the brewing was successful.  Weed that is worth smoking is not easy to grow.  Well, depends on how skilled you are as a gardener I suppose, but I'd say it is about as difficult as tomatoes, something else I have had no success growing.  My father, who has been successful at growing both concurs.  Making booze meanwhile is really really easy, you take juice, add yeast, and put it somewhere warm and dark for a few weeks.  It may not be the best, but it is drinkable, and it doesn't get much easier than that.  I know that I would greatly prefer homebrewed cider or concord wine to anything I can get at the corner gas station.

Distilling is a whole different kettle of fish, but also fairly much beside the point because people still buy beer and wine at the store, for considerably more than the cost of making it, partly because it is less work, and partly because they don't have to wait a couple of weeks to consume it.

[The Johnny]

My point for you, is that i would love to see your take on this factor of "The Game"; i havent read all of your stuff do, so i dont know if i missed it. Although i know its a hard thing to do, for politicians dont make their relations or bribes known in relation to drug cartels...

OK, the thing is, drugs have two major selling points for people who don't mind getting their hands dirty (which, by definition includes the intelligence services, in that are glorified, domestically based criminal organisations):

1.  They are untraceable, so long as drugs remain part of the black market
2.  They are worth tons of money

The CIA angle of the drug trade is probably the one I know the best, so I'll refer to that.  The CIA's budget is mostly secret, hidden among Pentagon spending, but has Congressional oversight through the Intelligence Sub-Committee, IIRC, which means that the American legislature, in theory, can say "What exactly are you doing with our cash?"

Of course, the CIA doesn't like to have to answer such questions.  Secrecy is an institutional obsession, both for its own sake, and because the CIA's officers frequently use the resources of the agency for agendas other than national security.  Not to mention even some of those programs which are undertaken for national security purposes might be objected to, by, say, high-minded reformers or politically aware and motivated voters.

So, in that sense, drug money is a good way to fund operations that the CIA isn't meant to be doing, or wants kept off the books.  Like Program Phoenix for example, the Vietnam assassination program.  Congress told the CIA to stop Phoenix in December 1972.  They kept up the operation until the fall of South Vietnam 1975.  It was funded in part by heroin sales.  The heroin was collected by ethnic groups in South East Asia allied with the US, processed by certain front organisations (like a Pepsi bottling plant in Laos) and then flown out, via the CIA's Air America airline, or smuggled back to the USA in dead soldier's bodies.

Often this is done with tacit approval from the White House...either they ask for something to be done and don't care how it happens, so long as it stays off the books...or it actively aids and abets these efforts, in the hope that Congress wont ever find out.  In Columbia, it is widely believed that right-wing militias like the AUC get funding and arms from the CIA (or DIA, or somebody) in return for a cut of the cocaine profits, which they help facilitate the entry of into the country. 

Drugs also give an excuse for American politicians to land troops anywhere in South America virtually, at any time.  Noriega is your example here.  The General was a Company man, through and through.  But he fucked up...rumour I heard was he started selling US secrets to Cuba, maybe that's true, and maybe it's not.  Either way, his CIA connections meant shit when the Marines came a-knocking.  If you want to get more influence in a country, building up a guy like Noriega and his opposition, then chucking Noriega once he starts believing his own Glorious Leader bullshit and too difficult to manage is a good way to go about it.

Naturally, profits themselves are also a motive.  I mean, hell, you know roughly what the numbers are for the Mexican Cartels alone.  Even a very small cut of that would do quite nicely.

There are also domestic benefits, too.  Many CIA operatives got axed under Carter the Peanut Farmer, when he tried to de-Nixonfy the Agency.  Some of those went on to found private security firms, especially those specializing in training or intelligence gathering.  And hey, if you have a War on Drugs...well, contracts abound for that sort of things.

Drugs also keep uppity minorities down.  Black radicalism, for example.  Throw drugs, guns and profits into the equation, and it turns into gang warfare very quickly.  Nasty, sure, but they're not spouting the Black Panter party line anymore, are they?

I'm sure there are many more examples I've forgotten, but I've only had five hours sleep, and had to count out £105 in one and two pence pieces at work today, so my brain is a little fried atm.

Marked for my own reference, lest my sleeping pill make me forget to read this.sfdxvvvv

[Lies]

Ok, I've been in the background of this whole debate and I must say, it's pretty fucking interesting.

Funnily enough, I know where all the sides are coming from, as I've been on both sides. That's not to say I'm not biased, but I think I have a pretty decent understanding of the whole drug "problem".

Here is what I personally feel in general about drugs and the problems they cause-

First, a bit of my background and why I feel qualified to talk about what I'm talking about, besides the fact I have an alias that does seem very "pro-drug".

I've grown up in a suburb where, when I was growing up, there was a HUGE drug problem, my suburb being one of the Heroin capitals of Melbourne.
I've grown up around drugs, and I've seen the problems they can cause. But I think it's a lie that it's the drugs themselves that are the things actually causing the problems, I'll elaborate more on that later.

Now, I've personally been taking drugs since I was 2 years old. No joke.
"HUH?" Some of you might might be thinking.
Well, thing is, I had my first sips of alcohol when I was 2. I've got a picture of it in the family photo album.
I was first properly drunk when I was 6 years old. I had two bottles of beer.

You must be thinking, "What were your parents thinking, those neglectful and horrible people! They should be thrown in jail!"
Well, you must understand, my father is german, and in germany, it's definitely not unusual for children to have alcohol there. The legal drinking age there is 16 years of age, but it seems to be more of a recommendation there then a law.

My fathers reasoning was that if I were to have the occasional beer or wine, the taboo and mystification of it would disappear, and I'd be a more responsible drinker when I get to my teenage/adult years and hopefully won't become an alcoholic. (And mind you, this wasn't an every day thing or every week or every month thing. I was lucky to have it in my preteen years at a rate of 1 can of beer every 6 months as a special "treat")

As far as I can tell, it worked, I do drink alcohol, but I don't drink to excess, and I don't get stupidly blind drunk when I go out partying, I know my limits and I'm not out to impress anyone with my drinking prowess when I go out, and I don't act like a complete idiot when I do get drunk. Just enough of an idiot to have a fun time, without encroaching on anyone else's fun.

Funnily enough, my father, who was a regular pot smoker, prohibited me to have any pot and did not want me touching it until I had finished school.
That was something I completely ignored, and started smoking pot when I was 15, mainly because it was a taboo thing, and was EASY to get. Like, seriously easy to get. Easier to get then alcohol, which if I wanted, I could just have asked my father for, and as long as I was reasonable about it, he would give to me.

Now, before you go ahead and totally misinterpret what I just said, I'm not advocating that we should be giving alcohol/drugs to young people and that will get rid of any problems, this just happens to be my case, and my personal truth on the matter.

Now the reason my father didn't want me smoking pot was that he was worried it would affect my ability to think properly and perform well in school.
The problem was, I was having trouble with my ability to think and perform well in school, and this was WELL before I had ever started taking any "hard" drugs (and before any of you think that the reason might be that I've been drinking as a toddler, I seriously doubt it, the thing is, I have ADD, which is caused by a lot of psychological things, of which barely anything to do with a young person very occasionally having alcohol.) and so I was very depressed as a teenager.

I hated school, I was a walking contradiction, I was "known and noted" as one of the smartest kids in my highschool, but also as the one with the worst academic grades.
I skipped classes and instead went to the library and read lots of books.
It was funny, I was able to absorb lots of information, and as long as I didn't have to write about it, I could tell you a million things about any subject.
Unfortunately, the way they assess you in school is on your ability to write about the things you learn.

When people asked me for help with their homework, I'd be able to tell them exactly what to do, and tell them heaps of things they wouldn't have been able to think of themselves, I just didn't have the patience to sit and do homework myself.
Teachers used to quiz me all the time in class on things that have nothing to do with the subject we were supposed to be learning, and I could tell them things that would make their jaws drop. Both because they were in such shock that I knew the things I knew, and that I was so terrible when it came to actually writing the stuff they required me to write when they knew that I was quite capable of it.

The teachers didn't know what to do with me, my parents didn't know what to do with me, I didn't know what to do with me, and the doctors never ever bothered to consider that I might be suffering from ADD.

I was depressed, I was an outcast, I had no idea what was wrong with me or where I was going in my life, and yes, that sounds like the average teenager experience, but I really WAS very different from everyone.

Anyway, I knew I had a problem, and I couldn't get ANY help from ANYONE in ANYWAY.
I was sent to counselors, and psychologists, who tested me and questioned me a lot.
All their advice was worthless to me, it didn't do shit all jack to help me with my problems.
They tested my IQ, which was found to be 145 on the general IQ test and on a different IQ test, was found to be "Bordering Genius" level, (The levels of that particular test being, Handicapped (A nicer way of saying, "retarded" I imagine), Below Average, Average, Above Average, Genius and Prodigy, I was in between Above Average and Genius, with apparently having failed a test that I personally believed the answer to be very subjective that would have pushed me into Genius level) which just seemed to further confuse the counselors, teachers and myself.

So having no where else left to turn, I started doing a lot of research into chemicals, feeling that I may be suffering from some sort of neurological disorder or chemical imbalance stopping me from achieving what I knew what I was capable of.

I read lots of books on drugs, both the anti-drug books that were so prevalent in schools, and a lot of non-biased books which gave straight out facts about chemicals and their effects.
I studied them for years, and still continue to study them to this day, I find that no matter how informed I feel about any particular chemical, there's always something new to learn.

When I felt that I had learned enough information from books to take a calculated risk, I started experimenting with drugs.
Let me make this clear: I never started doing "hard/illegal" drugs, until I read heaps and heaps of information on it first.

Now, we had drug-education classes in both my primary school and my high school, but after having done all my own research into the matters, I found them to all be INCREDIBLY lacking in the information department, they were all more or less just scare campaigns, with scant REAL information presented on the REALITY of what drugs can do.

I remember once in one health ed class, we were learning about LSD. Funnily enough, by this time, I had taken LSD, and it had seriously opened my mind to things that I had never even dreamed about.
When the teacher started talking about the "Effects" of LSD, being things like "seeing things that aren't there, like monsters and demons and will make you think you can fly so you'll jump out of a building" I made the mistake of going "What the hell are you talking about?" and suddenly the whole class turning towards me and the teacher going "I know what I'm talking about, it's all in this book here, why are you questioning it?".
I knew I had to keep my fucking mouth shut, and just said, "Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about a different drug, sorry miss", what I wanted to say was- This book we're reading from is provided by the government to give us mis-information on the reality of the drugs effects, I've taken acid, I have at no point ever seen demons or have been  *that* high that I've found myself wanting to jump from buildings thinking I could fly, WE'RE ALL BEING LIED TO AND YOU'RE ALL PERPETUATING THE LIES."

I remember once, there was BIG school assembly where all of the senior school had to go into the assembly hall, to listen to some drug counsellor's talk about why drugs were bad.

I tried to avoid going to it as I had a funny feeling it would be full of shit, and when a teacher caught me wagging the assembly he made me go to it "because it's important you learn about this stuff". (To which I wanted to reply, No, it's important YOU all learn about this stuff, because you guys have NO FUCKING IDEA)

Sure enough, I went, and 70% of the information this supposed drug counselor was spouting was Grade A government propaganda.
Now, I hear some of you say, well, its more important that kids learn about drugs and its negative effects, even if a lot of it isn't true, the positives outweigh the negatives.

Well, let me ask you: If I offered you a sandwich that was 30% ham and 70% shit, and told you it was a ham sandwich, would you- A: Eat it? And B: Call it a ham sandwich or a shit sandwich?
HELL, if I offered you a sandwich that was 90% Ham and 10% shit, would you eat it and call it a ham sandwich?

Well, I don't know about you, but I like my ham sandwich's to be full of HAM and devoid of ALL shit.

Anyway, sure enough, this did not instill any trust of the information I've been learnt about drugs from such "trusted" sources such as teachers, the government and drug counselors.

Anyway, I think I've babbled on long enough about my past, now, here's what I think of the drug situation in general and a TL/DR of all of the above:

I've taken a SHIT load of drugs. Alcohol, Pot, LSD, Mushrooms, DMT, Speed, Ice, MDMA, MDA, Mescaline, DXM, 2-CB, Salvia, Opiates, Benzodiazepines, Valium, Xanex, SNRI's, Tricyclic antidepressants, and there's a few more but I'll stop there cus I think you're starting to get the point.

I personally don't feel they have had a *big* negative impact on my life.
I live a very happy life, I'm no longer as depressed as I used to be before I started taking drugs, in fact, I'm super fucking happy these days.


They haven't fucked up my brain either. My brain was fucked long before I took drugs.
As a matter of fact, my brain has never been BETTER. In fact, it's better then most people I know who have NEVER taken drugs.

Did you know I can recall Pi up to the 50th decimal place, off the top of my head? (I could learn it even higher to, ALMOST ad infinitum, if I could be bothered) How many of you people can do that? I'm willing to wager, NONE.

Did you know, I can remember any 40 digit number you can throw at me? Once again, how many of you lot can do that?

Ok, given, it's a lot HARDER to do when I'm stoned or tripping, but when I'm back to normal, I don't lose this ability, and even when I'm high, I can still remember more then most of you can.

That's not to say that drugs CAN'T and DON'T do damage, because yes, some people will take a drug once and it will fuck them up forever, some people, it will take taking a drug A LOT before it fucks them up.

You know some people will eat a peanut once, and can DIE? You know some people drink waaaay too much fucking Red bull, and DIE?

Not all drugs are for everyone, and not everyone should be taking drugs.

It's up to the individual to figure out what they can and can't handle, and if drugs are having a negative effect on your life, SEEK HELP, stop doing them, find alternatives, there are always OPTIONS.
Use your options, all smart and reasonable people do.

I don't think that the drug problem is a simple one to solve.
Even if we legalize all drugs, and put programs in place to help addicts, it won't make the drug problem go away.

But, one thing I do know is, the system we have in place right now is NOT helping the drug problem AT all.
In fact, it's CAUSING the "drug" "problem".

When you prohibit a drug, you create a black market for it. There is no way to stop this from happening, because there will ALWAYS be a demand for drugs, drugs have been around for as long as humans have been around, if not LONGER, SERIOUSLY, (Why do you think there are tribes that worship and cherish sacraments such as magic mushrooms and magic Cacti?") and will NEVER go away.
With the black market, comes inflated prices, comes a chance for poor people to make a profit, comes the mafia, comes the triads, comes crime, comes all the BAD THINGS that are associated with drugs. (Alcohol Prohibition, anyone?)

Drugs aren't bad, but bad people move drugs and are associated with drugs.

Drugs don't turn people into bad people, bad people do drugs and do stupid things, and those are the people you see in the media giving drugs a bad name.

We shouldn't be throwing people in jail just because they do drugs.
Fuck we shouldn't even be throwing people in jail for DEALING drugs.
Most (I'll admit, not all) my dealers are GOOD people, and I trust them more then I trust the cops or the government or even some doctors I've been to.

People who do drugs, that are not causing any problems to anyone else, should be LEFT THE FUCK ALONE.

People who do drugs that are causing problems for other people should be given HELP, Not thrown in jail, where good people get turned into bad people just to survive.

People who deal drugs should be given jobs in pharmacies or nightclubs, like all the other legal drug dealers.

Legalizing drugs WONT stop kids from getting their hands on them, but I know that having drugs be illegal doesn't stop kids from getting drugs either, in fact, ITS EVEN EASIER to get.
Just last week, LAST WEEK, I was in the city and a bunch of underage kids came up to me, asking me if I could buy them some alcohol.
I told them I was not going to do that and why the fuck are you kids out and about in the city on monday night looking to get drunk?

They got pissed off at me but understood that I wasn't going to buy them alcohol. And you know what they said?
"Oh well, looks like we're just going to have to get stoned then" and left.

Imagine if it were the case with weed, needing to be over 18 in order to buy it, with stiff penalties for those who provide minors with it.

Those kids would instead have to resort to huffing fumes or something, but hey, AT LEAST THEY'RE GOING TO FIND IT MUCH HARDER TO GET THOSE OTHER DRUGS, right? (That was a sort of joke by the way, what I'm trying to say is somewhere between the lines there)

Man, seriously, I have a LOT to say about this all, I could write an essay or a book and I still feel as if I haven't said everything I want to say about it all.
But I feel I've yakked on long enough about my own personal feelings about shit, this post is probably already longer then any other post so far in this thread, but hey, there's my 2c.

Oh yeah, did I mention, I haven't done any hard drugs in several months now?
Hell, I haven't even had joint lately. I've been clean for a while, and I don't feel shitty, nor craving anything, I'm LOVING my life right now.

But I haven't quit drugs, I never will, not because they're addictive, but because I find they help enhance my life when taken IN MODERATION.


In conclusion, I think there is a FUCKLOAD of mis-information on drugs all around the world, and we could be doing so much more in order to help educate people and help them, right now, most governments are just DOING IT WRONG and most likely because they profit too much from having this war on some-drugs.
The prison song by System of a down sums up my arguments nicely-

Following the rights movements
You clamped down with your iron fists,
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids,

I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch,
Right here in Hollywood,

Nearly 2 million Americans are incarcerated
In the Prison system of the U.S.

They're trying to build a prison, (for you and me to live in)
Another prison system.

Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You don't even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich.

The percentage of Americans in the prison system,  has doubled since 1985

All research and successful drug policy shows
That treatment should be increased,
And law enforcement decreased,
While abolishing mandatory minimum sentences.

Utilizing drugs to pay for secret wars around the world,
Drugs are now your global policy,
Now you police the globe,

Drug money is used to rig elections,
And train brutal corporate sponsored
Dictators around the world.

[Cain]

this thing about Portugal is really interesting. I didn't even know they decriminalized all drugs.

weird that, cause I'd be totally against decriminalization of heroin or cocaine, but if the numbers don't lie ... heroin addiction is a horrible thing and if decriminalizing it helps less people become addicted ... hm.

I know in the UK that heroin treatment was more effective when it was decriminalized and those addicted could get it from their doctors.  Before the papers started a moral crusade about the 100 or so junkies that actually existed in the UK getting drugs from taxpayers money, causing a new Tory government to criminalize possession or use of the drug....which led to the current day situation.

I don't know if it would work now, given the amount of heroin addicts there are in the country, but Nice Job Breaking It, Moral Crusaders.

[East Coast Hustle]

...the governments of most countries will never legalise it as they cannot tax it.

wtf are you talking about? legalization = taxation... because of regulation.

It would not only be a source of income for the government, but also would get rid of the drug cartels.

i wish someone knew how much moeny drug cartels make per year compared to, lets say, Wal Mart or Microsoft. Sometimes i think that the "war on drugs" is kind of the "republican vs. democrat" 2 man con sort of thing.

That shit grows everywhere. Or rather, it can. And while they might be able to track and find the source of high-quality strains, there would be so much backyard, ditch and amatuer bathtub/closet shit they won't have time to comb through those who have a script/licenses vs those who don't. And they don't like that. Plus, the govt. already gets money from the well-targeted busts they do, not to mention the stabilization that large piece of the black market does for our economy. It's literally money you can grow that just pumps into the economy.

Alcohol is way easier to make than weed, and people still buy their beer at the store.

bullshit.

you have to pay a little bit of attention to make beer or wine, even more to distill some hooch, but...

there's a reason they call it "weed".

[East Coast Hustle]

also, Lys, that post was ridiculously long, but I totally agree with the point you made about people being responsible for the choices they make about drugs as opposed to drugs being responsible for people making fucked-up choices.

[Lies]

also, Lys, that post was ridiculously long, but I totally agree with the point you made about people being responsible for the choices they make about drugs as opposed to drugs being responsible for people making fucked-up choices.

I told you I had something intelligent to say about the subject, the problem is, I have TOO much to say about it, I could have easily made that 3-4x longer if I had the patience and the time. (and probably more drugs lol)

[East Coast Hustle]

yeah, don't get me wrong, I agreed with most of the points you made and I actually don't hate myself for bothering to read all of it.

[Z³]

Lysergic is my new hero.