ATTN Roger: I'm the Decider.

[Kai]

I'm on the Graduate Academic Integrity Committee. By volunteering, I am not only required to be familiar with and understand the GAI Policy, but I also sit on hearings for graduate students who have violated the policy. Level one offenses are mild while level three can result in suspension and level 4 as a permanent termination from the university.

This Thursday I will sit with four other people and hear the case of one who is charged with committing a level 3 violation, a flagrant and intentional plagiarism on a significant portion of an important paper in his class. After hearing the case, the committee decides and recommends the punishment.

I'm not really sure how I feel about this anymore. Is it just me, or are people assholes, out to bring down anyone they perceive as unworthy? I've looked at the letter and syllabus of the accusing professor, and it seems to me he is an asshole who I wouldn't associate with in public. Regardless of what this student has written, this guy is a jerkface. But then, this IS an MBA program we're talking about here. What is it you've said about MBA's before, Roger? Fucking useless? Worthless wasteful degrees? Something like that.

I know this kid is sunk, even if he does come out clean somehow. Maybe he actually has no problems with plagarizing to get the grade, or maybe he made a simple mistake and forgot to put in quotation marks. Perhaps he grew up in a culture where using the best information was rewarded, where using someone else's words was seen as the smart way, especially if they were good words.

I don't know, Roger. The kid did plagiarize, and quite a bit too. Not only did he copy words verbatim, but he didn't quote them or cite his source. Paragraphs worth, Roger. Maybe he deserves to burn. Maybe I'll be dolling out justice, you know, fairness and equity and returning whats payed out and all those other meaningless sayings. I'll suspend his ass, because he is a badwrong person, and he deserves it, the little badwrong student. SEND HIM BACK TO HIS COUNTRY, WE DON'T WANT HIS KIND HERE!

Maybe the professor manipulated the paper and is doing this to get him kicked out.

I can't really tell. All I have is the word of one professor and a couple scanned PDF's, with handwritten notes. His fate is in my hands. I judge, I'm THE Decider. I Decide.



To be honest, I feel pretty filthy.

[East Coast Hustle]

it sounds to me like you already know what you should do, or at least what you think you should do.

[Captain Utopia]

Would it be different if you were marking the kids term paper and he just hadn't put the work in and thus you had to give him a failing grade which you knew it would set him back, academically, the same amount?

I think it's the same thing - to get your degree you need to equal parts get the marks AND not get caught doing stupid shit.

[Kai]

it sounds to me like you already know what you should do, or at least what you think you should do.

Just the opposite. The more I think about it the less sure I am.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Flip a coin. Best way to make big, life or death decisions

[Jean-Lustine d'Hadamard]

Perhaps he grew up in a culture where using the best information was rewarded, where using someone else's words was seen as the smart way, especially if they were good words.

I've heard similar things from others who sat in on "unfair practice" hearings. The anecdotal is that certain cultures have a somewhat more relaxed attitude to plagiarism. Frankly, I don't consider that an excuse because most universities are quite clear on their anti-plagiarism policies.

I don't know, Roger. The kid did plagiarize, and quite a bit too. Not only did he copy words verbatim, but he didn't quote them or cite his source. Paragraphs worth, Roger. Maybe he deserves to burn. Maybe I'll be dolling out justice, you know, fairness and equity and returning whats payed out and all those other meaningless sayings. I'll suspend his ass, because he is a badwrong person, and he deserves it, the little badwrong student. SEND HIM BACK TO HIS COUNTRY, WE DON'T WANT HIS KIND HERE!

So, just one assignment, or do you consider a significant proportion of his past work to be knock-offs? If it's the former, and you believe the evidence implies he did it and there is no evidence of a conspiracy, wouldn't the best thing be to fail him on that course, or simply deny him credit for that assignment?

To be honest, I feel pretty filthy.

Well here's a bar of soap: Somebody has to do it. Better you than someone of less conscience and integrity.

[Richter]

MBA's AFAIK, are degrees entirely revolving around administration.  Not how to make things, or do things, but how to manage, control, or organize people who are doing or making things.  I'm not too fond of people who only know how to manage or control, especially when business heirarchy seems to reward that over everything else.

To be honest, I feel pretty filthy.

Well here's a bar of soap: Somebody has to do it. Better you than someone of less conscience and integrity.

THIS.  You're worried about making a fair decision.  Better than someone who passes them out without fathoming the consequences.

Do you have to decide completely what happens to him, or just give your say on if he did plaigiarize as stated?  What other groups or people are invovled in the eventual decision?  I'd guess that you folks aren't the only level he has to clear to warrant a level 3 crash landing out of the university.

[Kai]

MBA's AFAIK, are degrees entirely revolving around administration.  Not how to make things, or do things, but how to manage, control, or organize people who are doing or making things.  I'm not too fond of people who only know how to manage or control, especially when business heirarchy seems to reward that over everything else.

To be honest, I feel pretty filthy.

Well here's a bar of soap: Somebody has to do it. Better you than someone of less conscience and integrity.

THIS.  You're worried about making a fair decision.  Better than someone who passes them out without fathoming the consequences.

Do you have to decide completely what happens to him, or just give your say on if he did plaigiarize as stated?  What other groups or people are invovled in the eventual decision?  I'd guess that you folks aren't the only level he has to clear to warrant a level 3 crash landing out of the university.

The panel recommends punishment, and the university implements it. We are essentially responsible for the decision.

The initial accusation was sent to the dean of the graduate school. Based on that accusation, a hearing will be held for a level three offense. This isn't a court of law, even if the university is a public institution.

[LMNO]

Can you question the kid charged?

If so, can you ask him to give a detailed summary of his thesis?

The point being, most people who plagarize with intent to defraud don't actually understand much of what they're ripping off.  If the guy actually understands the material, then he's ultimately learned something, which is supposed to be the whole point.

[Faust]

Exactly, if his own material showed promise and he understood what he as copying and he showed complete remorse for his actions I would give him no more of a punishment beyond a full rewrite/resubmit of his work, and penalties to his max mark.

[Kai]

Can you question the kid charged?

If so, can you ask him to give a detailed summary of his thesis?

The point being, most people who plagarize with intent to defraud don't actually understand much of what they're ripping off.  If the guy actually understands the material, then he's ultimately learned something, which is supposed to be the whole point.

Yeah, we get to question the kid. He also sent out a rebuttal, and it seems like it was one of those "wrote the paper but forgot to put one citation in" sort of mistakes, from his perspective. He also didn't do the most awesome job of paraphrasing.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Plagiarism is the highest of academic sins, Kai, and for good reason.  This kid is going to go out into the world armed with an MBA.  He will probably find himself in a position of responsibility, and if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

This is how we get AIG and Goldmann/Sachs and Bernie Madoff.

This is how we got our financial system plundered, our economy wrecked, and the public's faith in our institutions shattered...when the only reason those institutions function is faith.

If he did this thing, I'd run his ass up the flagpole, and make an example out of him.

[Richter]

"Forgot one citation", I understand to be a bit of a cardinal sin.  I had an abnormal psych professor who insisted on grad quality work, (from college sophmores), and she DRILLED us on points like this.  

Would have cleared the professor and the dean if it were so simple an issue?  


(Remember:  "A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time!" - Inquisitor Torquemada  )

[Jean-Lustine d'Hadamard]

abnormal psych professor

(How does the adjective associate here?  )

[Richter]

abnormal psych professor

(How does the adjective associate here?  )

Both ways.
She taught abnormal psych and was also VERY diabetic.  Like "Poster Child for Professor Cramulus's theory" diabetic, with incredible mood swings.
The class started with 40 people.  6 showed up for the final exam, one of them to get her withdrawl letter (with the dean's special blessing for last minute bail outs) signed.  She was on some sort of probation for her conduct
One HELL of a teacher though, took no crap, and you better not waltz into class without having read and comprehended EVERYTHING. 

She also taught us a lot from outside the required text, like how each condition has it's own unique quirks and "flavors", beyond basic symptoms. (DSM4 was only recomendations an guidelines, not a bible in her estimation.)