ATTN Roger: I'm the Decider.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My housemate has to deal with shit like this all the time, usually from her Korean and Taiwanese graduate students. It comes up at LEAST twice a year, and it's a huge deal every time. She always says things like "I think they just come from a different culture and this must be OK where they come from".

My thought is, they're grad students. If they don't know by now that it's not OK, they shouldn't be grad students. After four or five years in college, you FUCKING KNOW that plagiarism is wrong, and you're trying to pull a fast one. Regardless of your English language skills.

[Jean-Lustine d'Hadamard]

My thought is, they're grad students. If they don't know by now that it's not OK, they shouldn't be grad students. After four or five years in college, you FUCKING KNOW that plagiarism is wrong, and you're trying to pull a fast one.

YES! THIS!

[Darth Cupcake]

if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

THIS THIS THIS

Integrity, dammit! This is basically the only way it can be taught these days, too. Integrity shouldn't have to be taught through negativity--there should be encouragement for integrity, rather than punishment for lack thereof--but better than nothing.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

THIS THIS THIS

Integrity, dammit! This is basically the only way it can be taught these days, too. Integrity shouldn't have to be taught through negativity--there should be encouragement for integrity, rather than punishment for lack thereof--but better than nothing.

Integrity is its own reward.  Once you have squandered your reputation, there's really no way to ever regain it completely.

[Kai]

Plagiarism is the highest of academic sins, Kai, and for good reason.  This kid is going to go out into the world armed with an MBA.  He will probably find himself in a position of responsibility, and if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

This is how we get AIG and Goldmann/Sachs and Bernie Madoff.

This is how we got our financial system plundered, our economy wrecked, and the public's faith in our institutions shattered...when the only reason those institutions function is faith.

If he did this thing, I'd run his ass up the flagpole, and make an example out of him.

Yes, we must make an example, we must string him up so we can all pretend there is some sort of justice in the world, that we can actually stem the flow of AIG and Goldmann/Sachs and Madoff into the professional world. We make an example, that you just have to be /really smart/ about not having any integrity, you have to be very careful about it, and the guys that never get caught snigger at the ones that do, because that's one less competitor for jobs, for money, for glory. The really bad ones don't get caught till it's too late. It's like studying criminology and realizing you're learning about all the stupid criminals.

[Kai]

if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

THIS THIS THIS

Integrity, dammit! This is basically the only way it can be taught these days, too. Integrity shouldn't have to be taught through negativity--there should be encouragement for integrity, rather than punishment for lack thereof--but better than nothing.

Integrity is its own reward.  Once you have squandered your reputation, there's really no way to ever regain it completely.

Sure, integrity is wonderful, is my MO, but I'm also smart. I know I'll probably be quite poor for the rest of my life. It's sobering to think, that, with my intelligence I could pull off some pretty spectacular steals. I wouldn't need integrity because no one would know I didn't have any, well, except the people who fell out of the game. They don't count though, just like me, a poor no money soul. I can see my current roommates shaking their heads at me as I walk into my room late at night. They've been sitting there all day, playing video games, knowing that they'll be multimillionaires within the next year as their bank accounts grow and accrue interest. Poor sap, me, having integrity.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Plagiarism is the highest of academic sins, Kai, and for good reason.  This kid is going to go out into the world armed with an MBA.  He will probably find himself in a position of responsibility, and if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

This is how we get AIG and Goldmann/Sachs and Bernie Madoff.

This is how we got our financial system plundered, our economy wrecked, and the public's faith in our institutions shattered...when the only reason those institutions function is faith.

If he did this thing, I'd run his ass up the flagpole, and make an example out of him.

Yes, we must make an example, we must string him up so we can all pretend there is some sort of justice in the world, that we can actually stem the flow of AIG and Goldmann/Sachs and Madoff into the professional world. We make an example, that you just have to be /really smart/ about not having any integrity, you have to be very careful about it, and the guys that never get caught snigger at the ones that do, because that's one less competitor for jobs, for money, for glory. The really bad ones don't get caught till it's too late. It's like studying criminology and realizing you're learning about all the stupid criminals.

1.  No, we must make an example so that future bad acts will be discouraged.  If the situation is hopeless and nothing can or should be done, then why are you on the committee?  One bad apple can make a HUGE impact on the financial market - on real peoples' lives - as we have seen.  Okay, so you might not get them all...by that reasoning, cops and the courts shouldn't bother dealing with rapists, because rape is still going to happen.


2.  Criminals are by definition stupid; the risk/reward ratio is never in your favor.  If they're smart, they're politicians.  Trust me on this one, I spent years around criminals, in one capacity or another, and they're some dumb sonsofbitches.  This guy, for example, cut and pasted someone else's work, and never gave thought to the fact that a professor in the field might not catch it, or smell something funny and word search it.  Ergo, he's an idiot.

But do what you see fit, Kai.  Let it slide, if you think that's the thing to do.  I mean, it cheapens the work done by honest students at the very least, but at least you won't have allowed an idiot to besmirch himself with his own feces.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

if allowed to get a free pass on this, he will do so knowing that there are no penalties for lack of integrity and being dumb about it.  

THIS THIS THIS

Integrity, dammit! This is basically the only way it can be taught these days, too. Integrity shouldn't have to be taught through negativity--there should be encouragement for integrity, rather than punishment for lack thereof--but better than nothing.

Integrity is its own reward.  Once you have squandered your reputation, there's really no way to ever regain it completely.

Sure, integrity is wonderful, is my MO, but I'm also smart. I know I'll probably be quite poor for the rest of my life. It's sobering to think, that, with my intelligence I could pull off some pretty spectacular steals. I wouldn't need integrity because no one would know I didn't have any, well, except the people who fell out of the game. They don't count though, just like me, a poor no money soul. I can see my current roommates shaking their heads at me as I walk into my room late at night. They've been sitting there all day, playing video games, knowing that they'll be multimillionaires within the next year as their bank accounts grow and accrue interest. Poor sap, me, having integrity.

Well, it's probably not too late to sell your soul for some money.  Little green pieces of paper with pictures of dead people on them.  They're quite useful.  You can spend them to buy STUFF, lots and lots of STUFF, and you can jam all that STUFF into your big house, into that big hole in your chest where something used to be, something that didn't seem important at the time, but it kinda aches now that it's gone, and you wonder why no PEOPLE around you seem REAL anymore, but at least you have STUFF and a big fat bank account full of that green paper, you can take it out and swim in it in your bigass living room and buy and sell people and never mind that little farting noise, that's just what's left of you disappearing.

That's what they have to look forward to, Kai.  That's their future. 

And you?  You have work that you love, and the knowledge that you've earned everything you have, even if you don't have everything you've earned.

Money's just money, you only get one you.

[Kai]

I'll probably go with the standard suspention pending the results of the hearing.  And I'm glad I have integrity.



Even with that I feel pretty jaded about the concept of justice right now.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'll probably go with the standard suspention pending the results of the hearing.  And I'm glad I have integrity.



Even with that I feel pretty jaded about the concept of justice right now.

Justice, like most important things, happens on a very small scale, in little tiny, not-so-satisfying bits.

But if nobody does it, then we may as well all pile into the sty with the piggies.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Um.

I know a lot of very intelligent people with tremendous integrity that make very, very good livings. You don't have to be a criminal to do well in your field, and if you do, you've entered the wrong field.

[Darth Cupcake]

These may actually be some of my favorite Roger posts as of late.

Although that's also because I've been so busy and brain-fried that I haven't gotten into the really meaty ones. But, nonetheless.

Good posts.

[Kai]

I'll probably go with the standard suspention pending the results of the hearing.  And I'm glad I have integrity.



Even with that I feel pretty jaded about the concept of justice right now.

Justice, like most important things, happens on a very small scale, in little tiny, not-so-satisfying bits.

But if nobody does it, then we may as well all pile into the sty with the piggies.

Okay.

I really didn't intend to act without integrity, everyone. Was just writing on a riff, and seeing where it took me.

[Richter]

I wouldn't say anyone's gone so far, and I'd wonder what they were doing if they did, Kai. 

No one can rightly say we will or we won't until we actually do.  Without action; intention, ideals, or justice, it's all just noise.  Or worse, noise that makes a farce of things that do go right.  Not much to be done about it when being a horrible bastard to the world is the only way to get it to work out.

[Da6s]

He should burn for lack of creativity, and his lack of showing that he truly deserves an MBA.


Anytime there's plagiarism from the "participants" (our word for special needs students that must be pampered and never made to work like they are truly attaining a collegiate degree) in my program, it's almost always one of the students from India, and they usually have one of their professional lackeys do their work for them. The only time it's revealed they didn't do their work is when presentations are required, and questions in the material but not included in the slides are asked.


That's the true spirit of having an MBA.