You know, Cainad, Salinger was a fucking jackass.

[Triple Zero]

Not reading far enough to realize that the man had been remarried, and making erroneous assumptions about the man in general was a Fuck-up. Certanly makes ME feel like a jackass. And for that I'm grateful, because it means more stupid out of my system.

So, I think it improved the thread

Okee, never mind then.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Thanks for understanding, Alty.

000, the reason I criticized it so harshly was because the very premise of the essay was the personality of an actual person, and if the basic assumptions about that person are incorrect, the premise is shot; the essay has no legs.

[Payne]

Pix: that was awesome!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I liked it.

[Salty]

I'm pretty satisfied with it as is, same for this thread. I love this fucking thread. Don't get me wrong, when I first read this:

You "don't believe" he left a widow behind?

Why is that? Maybe you shouldn't write about subjects you're not very familiar with. I'm sorry, but... taking liberties with an actual human being's life is a bit more of a stretch than I can sympathize with.

Yes, his wife DID leave him in 1966, which, according to his daughter's biography, was because he was isolating and controlling. He remarried in the 80's, and that wife is now his widow. Simple enough to look up; if you're motivated enough to write about the man you should be motivated enough to read a few pages of biographical information first.

The fact remains, aside from the fact that he continued to write, no one really knows a whole lot about Salinger's later years, including whether he had much of a social life. Assuming that he was sitting cloistered in his home the whole time is a stretch, to say the least. Have you seen so much as a picture of him taken within the last 45 years? Perhaps he was a total recluse. Perhaps not.

I think I see the basic premise of your rant, but I think it could stand to be rewritten to be about yourself rather than baseless assumptions about an author with whom you aren't familiar enough to write about.

And I don't believe I agree with the rant, even then. Unless, again, I have missed something profound. But I don't think I have.

I was pretty damned pissed off, and the lack of food + two straight espresso shots in my belly magnified that quite a bit. But...for me, it just reaffirmed the point I was making. Like I said:

Hell, I'm taking a risk just by posting this for you vicious bastards to read.

In my past, something like that would have just shut me down and compelled me to withdraw inwards, never venturing to read anything anyone here had to say. Stupid, yes. Yes.

The feel and the point is still there as I see it, regardless of the faults.

I'm thinking about exploring the idea under a totally different context, as I feel there's more and once I get stuck with an idea it's just that, stuck.

[Salty]

Also, I appreciate all youse guys' comments.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, I appreciate all youse guys' comments.

I appreciate you writing it, and I hope you do some more.

[0]

Also really enjoyed this, please send us moar.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Like Suu, they made us read it in english.  It was a big deal because it was the 80's and the book had received a lot of publicity.  I neither liked or disliked the book at the time. Maybe I should re-read it. 

As for the OP I liked it.  I understand where you were coming from.

for you Alty and Cainad too!! Great discussion!!

[Suu]

If only MORE threads could be like this.

[Faust]

Not because of Catcher in the Rye, though I loathed that book. I may have judged it in error anyway. I was a lot dumber when I read it, and perhaps I found it so dull only because so many people had coveted it before me and its themes were too imprinted into society for me to see it as anything but a statement of the obvious. At the time of it's publication I'm sure it was incendiary. Also, I may just have horrible taste.*

No. His failure had little to do with his work. His was a social problem, shared, no doubt, by others who just happened upon concentration camps or witnessed similar horrors. You get the bad taste of humanity in your mouth, nothing really washes it away for good.

He did what so many like him have done: He Sought. He sought and sought. That fucker looked everywhere. He seemed to have rejected Dear Sweet Jesus right away, and I can't reall blame him for that.

Wikipedia:

After abandoning Kriya yoga, Salinger tried Dianetics (the forerunner of Scientology), even meeting its founder L. Ron Hubbard, but according to Claire he was quickly disenchanted with it.[70][71] This was followed by adherence to a number of spiritual, medical, and nutritional belief systems including Christian Science, homeopathy, acupuncture, macrobiotics, the teachings of Edgar Cayce, fasting, vomiting to remove impurities, megadoses of Vitamin C, urine therapy, "speaking in tongues" (or Charismatic glossolalia), and sitting in a Reichian "orgone box" to bathe in "orgone energy."[72][73][74][75]

I read that and I could feel this icy grip, shaming me, humiliating me. Not only had much of my own "studies" and practices been done to death well before I was capable of understanding that Shit's Fucked Up (or understanding anything at all for that matter), but they were shared by a distant (ha) somewhat aloof (haha) recluse, who died mostly alone (BAAHAHAHAHAHAHA).

What this shows me, as much as it shows me anything, is that in all his religious searching and explorations of other belief based systems of thought, he never got to discordianism. Or, at least, he didn't GET IT if did get to it.

One thing that discordianism has shown the value of is the ability to Stick Apart Together and HAVE SOME FUCKING FUN. I feel Salinger could have used those lessons.

Many of us want to rip the core of the earth apart and have been left with a deep distaste for the status quo (whatever the fuck that is). Some of us just hate generally, up and down and across the board. And that's okay. Nothing wrong with hate. Beats apathy or forced Positive Thinking hands down, IMHO.

But that doesn't mean we lock ourselves away, or find some mountain cave to hide in. Monks and priests and the anti-social make this excuse, that truth can be found in solitude, in quiet contemplation. But this is a lie, another "escape" that amounts to no more than spartan window dressing.

This is also the biggest flaw in analytical philosophy. All that jargon, just another mountain to hide in. You can tell because any FUNCTIONAL system of belief or truth or explanation must be catered to nature of humans as SOCIAL animals.

These things, these beliefs, even Mega-dosing Vit.C. They are often just ways to avoid needing people, being close to them, and feeling the very real ups and downs that people bring with them wherever they go.

You need people, I need people. J.D. Salinger thought he didn't need people. And maybe he didn't, maybe he was just happy as a clam tucked away with is supplements and Ancient Texts and no one to talk to but his typewriter.

I don't want that. For me, that is just another kind of hell. The Hell of the Lonely Bastard, and until recently it was the same hell I was heading towards.

Now though, I'm going to go ahead and do what he was afraid to do, what I've been afraid to do.  I'm going to risk myself and see if I can't make some motherfucking friends. Even ones who occasionally tell each other to go fuck themselves. Even if I lose some here and there. There's a risk there, as with anything worth doing. Hell, I'm taking a risk just by posting this for you vicious bastards to read.

It's better this way, better than living death.



*Burns has countered this and I am liable to put my faith in his judgement.

Haven't read the rest of the thread, none the less:

[Hangshai]

Haven't read the rest of the thread, none the less:

's ok, you pretty much got the gist of what the rest of the thread was about...

(ITT:[much deserved]Mittens for Alty!)

[.]

This is a very good essay/rant whatever you would like to call it. I like the fact that you're putting that out there for everyone to read. It doesn't matter what people think, you find friends in the oddest places and in the oddest people. It's just part of that "I don't care what you think about me" attitude and people who don't respect you for that don't have any place in your life anyway, because, hell, if they don't like it that's their problem, because you got people around you that like you for that reason alone. I would like to see more like this out of you.

[the last yatto]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/267355/?tag=JD+Salinger

[Freeky]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/267355/?tag=JD+Salinger

"Can we PLEASE read this RIGHT NOW?!"