Pot/drugs: An all-encompassing explanation.

[East Coast Hustle]

I looked up the Oregon law again and you can have up to 24 plants, but no more than 6 can be mature at a time so you'd have to grow them in shifts. That's still a lot.

oh god yes. with some strains you can get around 4 - 5 pounds per plant with some of these monster things they have growin round here, and its a piece of pie keeping them not mature. I don't know how the weather rolls round there, but if you have a nice hot summer, you'll be in luck All I know about Oregon is you have to never, ever, ever, try and cross the river & don't spend all your money on bullets.

Yeah, the other side of the river is pretty fucking lame.

[AsylumSeaker]

I DO have a gripe with people who insist that substance abuse connects you to a higher plane, or makes you telepathic, or more creative.

Do you make any differentation between use and abuse? Or is any ingestion of a psychoactive chemical simply "bad, m'kay".

I have a hard time equating the use of a drugs like LSD, psilocybn, DMT, etc with "getting fucked up". Sure, it changes how your brain works and it might make it do things that it wasn't designed for (so to speak).. but I don't think there's much in the sentiment that 'normal' brain activity is inherently more useful to the individual than that of a 'malfunctioning' brain. Our brains are adapted for pretty specific purposes (to do with guiding bipedal apes in grassland environments, etc), but the world we now live in has very non-specific opportunities which a 'malfunctioning' brain might actually be better adapted for.

The way I see it.. Brain activity, no matter how divorced from the 'normal' human brain state is no more or less valid than any other brain activity. To place the bar of 'good' brain activity simply at the point where the human organism has happened to evolve it too seems an incredibly vain assumption. Some people seem to believe that unaltered human consciousness is the only angle from which reality can be viewed in truth, making perspectives acheived through use of drugs or influenced by a 'mental illness' or other things somehow shady, incorrect, not to be trusted, etc.. I just can't understand this sentiment and I think in the context of technology's profound influence on human perspective and the kurzweilian expansion of that technology, it's an old fashioned, inflexible and prejudicial view to think that we're born with the faculties for a 'perfect' consciousness and those people are going to be left behind if they're not careful.

I often use drugs to look at the world from different angles and I believe I've gained much from it, and from my interactions with the psychedelic community in general.

The brain is a chemical engine in which the consciousness rides. You can stick to endogenous chemical fuels, the ones which natural selection has given us by default.. or you can choose to branch out and experiment. I don't think the effects you get from experimenting can be summed up as 'getting fucked up', some are undoubtedly beneficial and useful.

edit - All this said, I don't smoke pot except occasionally and think it's a lame drug, in the realm of alcohol or benzos.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I looked up the Oregon law again and you can have up to 24 plants, but no more than 6 can be mature at a time so you'd have to grow them in shifts. That's still a lot.

oh god yes. with some strains you can get around 4 - 5 pounds per plant with some of these monster things they have growin round here, and its a piece of pie keeping them not mature. I don't know how the weather rolls round there, but if you have a nice hot summer, you'll be in luck All I know about Oregon is you have to never, ever, ever, try and cross the river & don't spend all your money on bullets.

Yeah, the other side of the river is pretty fucking lame.

But you live on THIS side of the river, ECH. You're one of US.

[AsylumSeaker]

I don't think E and meth are even in the same ballpark.

No, they aren't.  E will either kill you or it won't.  Meth will drag you through hell, then kill you.  For certain.

Yeah it will either kill you or it won't, in the sense that lightning will either strike you or it won't.

I think I regret posting in this thread as I seem to have engaged in conversation with someone who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Not reading thread first is fail.

http://thedea.org/statistics.html

The death rate for MDMA, assuming that there really were about 60 deaths directly caused by MDMA in 2000, would be roughly 2 in 100,000 users. The death rate from smoking, by contrast, is on the order of 400 per 100,000 users.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

no complete loss of motor skill or sense of social intelligence.

For you, maybe.

When I smoke pot, I'm pretty much worthless for the rest of the day.

SAME.

I wonder what you guys that dont have that, what your secret is?

I dunno, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've been uselessly blitzed. Generally, I get high, stop smoking and go do something. I think I may have programmed the response though because when I started I was paranoid that I would "get addicted" and be a stoner, but it never happened.

[Doktor Howl]

I DO have a gripe with people who insist that substance abuse connects you to a higher plane, or makes you telepathic, or more creative.

Do you make any differentation between use and abuse? Or is any ingestion of a psychoactive chemical simply "bad, m'kay".

No, I don't consider it all bad.  My hypocrisy only goes so far, after all, and I've choked down a few in my time.  My gripe is when people allow a drug to define their existence.

For example, if you were to say, "I occasionally chow down some cactus/shrooms/whatever and get all weird for kicks", okay.  If on the other hand, you reference drugs in everything you post, in your screen name, in every facet of your life as shown to a group, expect that group to treat you as you are:  A chronic pinkboy.

[Doktor Howl]

I don't think E and meth are even in the same ballpark.

No, they aren't.  E will either kill you or it won't.  Meth will drag you through hell, then kill you.  For certain.

Yeah it will either kill you or it won't, in the sense that lightning will either strike you or it won't.

I think I regret posting in this thread as I seem to have engaged in conversation with someone who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Not reading thread first is fail.

http://thedea.org/statistics.html

The death rate for MDMA, assuming that there really were about 60 deaths directly caused by MDMA in 2000, would be roughly 2 in 100,000 users. The death rate from smoking, by contrast, is on the order of 400 per 100,000 users.

Well, whattaya know.  You learn something new every day.

In this case, I learned two things:

1.  The danger of E is highly overstated, and

2.  Tucson has the worst drug labs in the world.

Thanks, AS.  The first graph at the site is better, though.

[Jasper]

I wonder what the statistic would be if MDMA was sold in quickie marts.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I DO have a gripe with people who insist that substance abuse connects you to a higher plane, or makes you telepathic, or more creative.

Do you make any differentation between use and abuse? Or is any ingestion of a psychoactive chemical simply "bad, m'kay".

No, I don't consider it all bad.  My hypocrisy only goes so far, after all, and I've choked down a few in my time.  My gripe is when people allow a drug to define their existence.

For example, if you were to say, "I occasionally chow down some cactus/shrooms/whatever and get all weird for kicks", okay.  If on the other hand, you reference drugs in everything you post, in your screen name, in every facet of your life as shown to a group, expect that group to treat you as you are:  A chronic pinkboy.

THIS is the correct mad scientist mobile. And it applies to a helluva lot more than drugs. Allowing any single thing to define your life seems like a quick ride to Pinkville.

[AsylumSeaker]

I don't think E and meth are even in the same ballpark.

No, they aren't.  E will either kill you or it won't.  Meth will drag you through hell, then kill you.  For certain.

Yeah it will either kill you or it won't, in the sense that lightning will either strike you or it won't.

I think I regret posting in this thread as I seem to have engaged in conversation with someone who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Not reading thread first is fail.

http://thedea.org/statistics.html

The death rate for MDMA, assuming that there really were about 60 deaths directly caused by MDMA in 2000, would be roughly 2 in 100,000 users. The death rate from smoking, by contrast, is on the order of 400 per 100,000 users.

Well, whattaya know.  You learn something new every day.

In this case, I learned two things:

1.  The danger of E is highly overstated, and

2.  Tucson has the worst drug labs in the world.

Thanks, AS.  The first graph at the site is better, though.

Cool, no worries.
Sorry if I seemed hostile there.

It should be noted that pill form ecstacy is not to be trusted as not only is it often poorly synthesised MDMA but can contain other drugs that people add to it to make it 'better'. Amphetamines, pcp, even plain caffeine in large amounts. Anyone serious about MDMA use should track down a source of pure crystaline MDMA as it's apparently much safer.

[President Television]

I DO have a gripe with people who insist that substance abuse connects you to a higher plane, or makes you telepathic, or more creative.

Do you make any differentation between use and abuse? Or is any ingestion of a psychoactive chemical simply "bad, m'kay".

No, I don't consider it all bad.  My hypocrisy only goes so far, after all, and I've choked down a few in my time.  My gripe is when people allow a drug to define their existence.

For example, if you were to say, "I occasionally chow down some cactus/shrooms/whatever and get all weird for kicks", okay.  If on the other hand, you reference drugs in everything you post, in your screen name, in every facet of your life as shown to a group, expect that group to treat you as you are:  A chronic pinkboy.

THIS.

The "420 smoke weed everyday blaze it" graffiti I see everywhere annoys me to no end. I've hung around with people who smoke pot, and I find them to be very friendly and likable people in general, but I can't stand the people who walk around spouting cannabis-themed catchphrases like some kind of pull-string doll.

[Doktor Howl]

I wonder what the statistic would be if MDMA was sold in quickie marts.

Probably safer, because you wouldn't have it made in horrible fucking trailer labs and cut with borax.

[Doktor Howl]

Cool, no worries.
Sorry if I seemed hostile there.

It should be noted that pill form ecstacy is not to be trusted as not only is it often poorly synthesised MDMA but can contain other drugs that people add to it to make it 'better'. Amphetamines, pcp, even plain caffeine in large amounts. Anyone serious about MDMA use should track down a source of pure crystaline MDMA as it's apparently much safer.

1.  If I get enough sleep, I just blow past hostility these days.  Also, you apparently WERE talking to someone who didn't know what he was talking about (outside of my immediate region, at least).  When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

2.  That seems to be the main problem here.  What's the world coming to, when you can't even trust your neighborhood dealer?

[Doktor Howl]

I DO have a gripe with people who insist that substance abuse connects you to a higher plane, or makes you telepathic, or more creative.

Do you make any differentation between use and abuse? Or is any ingestion of a psychoactive chemical simply "bad, m'kay".

No, I don't consider it all bad.  My hypocrisy only goes so far, after all, and I've choked down a few in my time.  My gripe is when people allow a drug to define their existence.

For example, if you were to say, "I occasionally chow down some cactus/shrooms/whatever and get all weird for kicks", okay.  If on the other hand, you reference drugs in everything you post, in your screen name, in every facet of your life as shown to a group, expect that group to treat you as you are:  A chronic pinkboy.

THIS.

The "420 smoke weed everyday blaze it" graffiti I see everywhere annoys me to no end. I've hung around with people who smoke pot, and I find them to be very friendly and likable people in general, but I can't stand the people who walk around spouting cannabis-themed catchphrases like some kind of pull-string doll.

That was basically the whole point of my rant.

[Jasper]

I wonder what the statistic would be if MDMA was sold in quickie marts.

Probably safer, because you wouldn't have it made in horrible fucking trailer labs and cut with borax.

Yeah.  There are too many unforseeable factors to really extrapolate though.  For instance, does anyone have numbers on the ratio of deaths to uses?  It seems like that would give a clearer comparison to tobacco and alcohol.